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About LuNa81

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    Roller Skating, Working out, Reading, Guitar
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    I am married with two kids. We've been married for 10 years and have struggled unbelievably with his overbearing Christian family. We recently bought a house and were able to break out of their iron grip. We are struggling to make sense of a lot and he signed up for this forum and asked me to do the same. We're hoping to make contact with people his family can't get to to help us make some sense of all of it.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    I don't know
  1. Thank you for the suggestions. I will be using at least some of them...I can guarantee that inserting the line "I do however..." would spark a firestorm, and they could accuse me of purposefully misrepresenting my FIL, etc. I will see if I can use the same idea but with different wording. Let me try this: Perfect! I hope there is a good outcome to all of this.
  2. I don't know.... If you do use this then it would be a good idea to make sure she understands you're showing it to her as per her and her fathers beliefs. I don't think it's manipulative though. It's fact as far as they believe it and according to their chosen word; they're both wrong in this situation. I say this because if you just show to her without making that clear she might not accept it from you being a nonbeliever. Sorry about the typos above. I got confused when I saw Crow on this thread so early. He's at work lol...
  3. Oops I meant to say they will be praying for "you" and keeping her in an upset frame of mind. I have also had this happen to me and seen it happen to other people. There are people in Church will warp a wife's thinking about her husband. There is no need to respect or love you if you are a heathen where some fundamentalists are concerned....It can be a simple and shaking thier head when she is crying in a bible study because she doesn't want to do to make her take a different stance towards you.
  4. Good response. You were firm and humble. For a first response to him that's usually the best. I get a little catty, but usually it's after the 2nd or 3rd round. Now what you can expect is confusion on his part. She called him and expressed her concerns and now she's siding iwth you? They are going to see this as you trying to control her. They will be wanting to talk to her and if she backs you then she's in trouble. She's actually got it coming from all sides because it's coming from her family and they will, if they haven't already involve extended family in the form of aunts and uncles and even church members. Does she go to the same Church where her dad is a pastor? I couldn't remember if you guys lived out of state from them. If she does then they will be constantly hassling her. If she goes to a different one she'll probably reach out to some fellow members there and they will also be hassling her about it. Everybody praying for her and keeping her in an upset frame of mind. I may even actually expect her to have a bit of breakdown the longer this continues. I'm so sorry you guys... I wish I could tell you that it's going to be as easy as you do your thing and I'll do mine where church is concerned, but.... Wow... I hope this turns out well.
  5. I noticed that too lol. Seems like it could have it's own section Start a nasty inlaw revolt and I'll lead the pack because I'm really feeling that Seriously though, Thanks so much, this is turning out to be a big opening for us for sure.... To answer your question of why. Because I can't make that decision for him. I also think he made a good point about our son and the fact that they have a lot to offer monetarily. That's not to say he would decide to go that way, but we do worry that if we take it away from him that eventually we could lose him for quite a while. That's providing the indoctrnation that would ensue doesn't stick. We should have done this early on. We're paying for that now. Then again that could be fear and guilt. I do think counseling would be a good idea.
  6. I hope I'm not talking out of turn here but I was wondering something. Did you and your wife talk about her informing him of your doubts before she did it? I'm asking because I know this guy. In fact I know many of these guys, and I read manipulation all over his letter. I started to dissect it because it's just in me to be protective. I was going to go on a big long rant, but I'll try to keep it short. It seems like he's trying to show you your folly and telling you that if you want "his" daughter and "his" grandchild then you better get with the freaking program like you "professed" to do. He said : I'm sure you're aware that <wife's name> has spoken to me about her concerns regarding your expressed "doubts", really lack of the true faith you have professed "Her concerns"? Does this mean they are on the same page? I really hope not because that is a big, big deal. The caddy tone to the whole thing just burns me up. I've dealt with this type of thing a lot and here's my best advice. Reply to him. Thank him for his concern (this serves to puff his ego a bit and lead him off) then tell him "My" (if it was me I'd put that quotations) like "My" wife and I are discussing these issues and if I need to discuss anything with you I'll let you know.Thanks. You're basically saying "mind your business" without being boorish. That can sometimes throw them off. Manipulate the manipulator so to speak. Then RUN to find out if your wife is or is not on the same page as you are. If she's not, but not willing to refrain from setting you up for daddy confrontation then wow dude....that's a big problem. If she is on the same page and you have the freedom of no financial ties or otherwise then you can be a lot more confrontational and straight up tell him to mind his own business. I'm saying this from a place down deep. If this type of interference is not dealt with it has the potential to get so much worse....Once you show weakness they push harder. In turn you have to practically bulldoze them down. We're going through it. It's not fun... I hope this works out for you guys.
  7. We are dealing with very messy family situation so I have a lot of anger to deal with. I haven't even gotten to the point of allowing myself to break down over the loss. I was not as emotionally connected to the group I was leading mostly because they weren't feeling me like they would have a young male leader. For some reason I've noticed in churches they want a young male leader becasue they get the best turnout, but I can relate to the music ministry side a great deal. I poured myself into it. Wrote songs, sang a lot. I got tapped a lot to lead and help lead and was feeling like I was coming apart towards the end. I'm not sure where to go with it all right now. These videos are powerful. You seem to be very sincere. I hope there is happiness for you at the end of all of this.
  8. You guys were posting while I was writing. I'm actually a little teared up over the fact that so many understand the frustration and anger over all of this. I was hesitant to start posting on this site because it means turning our back on everything we tried to believe was real and it's so painful....even more painful to realize how much they took from us at a point that we were beginning to find our own truths. In that they also took from our children because for a decade all the stress and not being able to experience who we really are. Margee - Thankyou so much. Your words really resonate with me. Your'e absolutely right about it being a fight for freedom. jackbauer- You are spot on! And this is part of what my husband is still struggling so hard with right now... They can turn it on and off like nobody I have ever known. It used to confuse me too and I guess for some of them (like his grandmother) it still does some... Suzanne & SusanStoHeli - It really is so unreal and I agree that time off might help. That's a decision that lies with my husband. It has to. Everytime the phone rings we cringe and we will avoid it for a little while. They are very very persistent. Phone calls, messages, emails. Very persistent! It's hard to give them a little because they make it bigger and bigger. They view boundries as short term obstacles...
  9. Wow, thanks. I wasn't really sure anybody would actually read all of that. I got started and couldn't stop. One thing that kind of floored me after I wrote it all out was that I left out a lot. That by itself is astounding. They really are a screwy bunch. You have absolutely nothing to apoligize for where they are concerned! I was taking in every bit as much as you and I know you have suffered far worse because you have been in it your entire life. I shared your fear for a long time. First my concern is you. Then I'm concerned about the kids and finding our way back to a healthy place spiritually if that's still something you decide you are looking for. I know you feel the same way I do and I know that you haven't found that burning inside of you yet to stand up. I can keep this going with them indefinately because I'm over their manipulation, but I do think that an important part of your growth is going to be to get past the fear. At this point for me the fear is gone and I guess have to get past the anger to find my way back. I didn't want to do this because the urge to suppress is huge, but I can see now how it can be thereputic for both of us to see it all laid out. It's been a wild ride and I know you share my desire to get over it, realize we're not the crazy ones and settle down. I love you so much. I know that you are doing everything you can. I appreciate all the validation. It's all so confusing at the time because there was a need and they offered a lifeline, but it was not for free. The preacher said week after week that "the gift is free", but I don't see how that's true. In addition to ripping guilt and fear that we will be ostrisized, there is a reason more poorer people are not in Church. I'm not talking about dirt poor because at some point we had enough to get by. Once our financial situation got a little better we were still "keeping up with the Jones's" and trying to earn our place in his family and community. At one time we were so desperate to "do the right thing" and the preacher kept saying that if you will "trust" and "give" even if you don't have extra then you "will be blessed". We ran a checking account into the ground like that one time. Trying to make out 10% we would overdraw and "trust" for the blessings. Well I lost my job and what ensued after that was months of service fees. After that we didn't tithe anymore so the idea then was that we had to be hard workers for the Lord. There isin't as much prestige in that though so we have to deal with being looked down on. (that's a little off topic, but it came to mind. I just don't see the spirituality in that) Back to it. There's truth in every post here even the guy who thought he was in the wrong thread lol. No problem guy, thanks for chiming in . I'm sure they do believe that we are going to hell. At least on some level they do, but then again there is a massive play for control. We kept them away some by participating in Church, hiding as much as we could, lying if we could get away with it. Those were the only tools we had at the time because we were stuck. I should mention that at some point we were not connected to them financially. We took that away and had to sacrifice because of it. My husband is still not done with school because he had to start working and will not be done for quite a while. But wait, they had a new manipulative plan.We lived in an apt. complex. It was nice, it was a townhouse.We had a lot of kids around and they came over all the time.Parents would be gone and it was hard to get my kids focused on schoolwork and just have general privacy as a family so that could be a bit frustrating. Kids would get into stuff sometimes as kids do and the landlord was pretty strict. New offer came in from the family. His aunt and uncle had a house empty. Brick, 3 bedrooms, a yard and we wouldn't be tied financially because we would pay rent and it would be lower than what we paid now enabling us to get ready to buy. We were ify on it, but in the end we did it....BIG MISTAKE and the catalyst for the end. What actually happened was they lowered our rent $10 less than what we were paying. We ended up in a house with an antique air conditioner, a screwed up septic tank and responsible for all the repairs and we were stuck. We couldn't save at all because were actually paying more since our utilities went up like $200 for all the leaks and heating/air cost. We lived in the city and didn't even know the house was on septic until it backed up and I called the plumber to come and unclog the pipes that didn't exist. We found out that the septic was shot and his aunt and uncle refused to do anything about it saying it wasn't shot so we lived for 2 years with septic water in the back yard. We couldn't let our kids out there and just had to deal with it because we were afraid to call the health dept. , sue, anything else. They had us again. Here's the ironic thing...you would think his parents would have been all over this since the first time we had these types of septic problems we had to get our children away from that, but no...We were encouraged not to cause problems and "it can't be that bad". To be honest we didn't have the money it would take to hire an attorney or leave to go somewhere else and start all that drama. Stuck again! They let us live there for a year and half with a broken AC unit and we had a friend let us have a window unit so we at least had one room that was cool. We finally came up with the money and fixed the unit. This is when I got pissed! I decided that these people are full of s*it! I will not let them fool me again and set out to figure a way out of this mess. Even while all of this was going on I was still going to church, going to church, going to church. They had spies EVERYWHERE. I know I sound like a crazy person, but they really turned us into paranoid people. The house was on a main road in town. We would be on our porch and would see them and people they knew driving by our house several times a day. If we didn't answer the phone (drive by). If we said we could make it to church (drive by). If we tried to say we couldn't participate in something they wanted to do or our youngest son wasn't feeling up to spending the night, or several between the whole family depending on whatever they felt like (drive by). They would even get him and take him out of town without telling us until someobdy finally answer the damn phone 3 days later.This was even better than planted spies and were paying out our as$es for it. It got to the point that we were afraid to sit on the porch and drink a beer. We would stay inside and draw the blinds. We were miserable! Finally BOILING POINT! We came in contact with this woman who thought she could help us buy a house. She put us in contact with another woman from a lending agency. We weren't sure and I KNOW nobody in his family thought we would ever pull this off. They had us perfectly. She took a look at our credit and found a program we could qualify for with a fixed interest rate. I hit the floor crying. I couldn't believe it! Neither of us could! It took us a few months to find a house and this was all very hush hush. We didn't tell anybody for a while and we sprung it on them about a month before we moved. They started asking a ton of questions and I tried to avoid it because you never know who they know. One day they were asking us some questions. Keep in mind it's not always yelling, it's manipulating so sometimes they will act like they are in our corner to get information. I let the name of the loan program slip and SON OF A *****. The night before we were set to sign our closing papers our agent called us and told us that everything blew up. A guy from the program office called after another person had approved our loan and asked for our loan to look at it again. He denied it and didn't give a really good reason. Only that the critera is just not there. We were all SHOCKED...well all of us except his family who was being oddly quiet after the conversation about the type of loan we had been approved for. I called his grandmother and told her. She said "awww I'm sorry", but I didn't hear any shock or true dissapointment there. I thought it was a done deal so I wasn't worried about them being able to do anything. The agent said she had never seen that happen before. Well, we were a couple of days late in closing because our agent, who was crying too. We had really gotten to know each other and she knew about a lot of stuff we had gone through. Buying our first house was so emotional. Somehow she was able to get our same loan into another fixed rate loan program and approved by the next day to go to closing. We didn't say a WORD. We just closed and then told them. BOOM! GONE!! We moved out that night. This time they did seem suprised. I have no proof and could never get proof, but I will probrably always wonder if they had something to do with that. Since then I have turned it all the way on. I did what I had to do to bide time and keep what little peace possible for our family, but I don't deal with caddy manipulation anymore. I have no problem being mean to people who are being mean to me and I'm NOT scared of them. The problem they have and I'm sure some of you ladies will understand. They thought I was stupid because I grew up in a trailer and ain't had none raisin. They severely underestimated me and my love for my husband and my kids. I agree with BlackPudd.....they do want to control him in some twisted ways. I wish I could say this is all, but there's more. There's always more. The new trick they have going on is that they won't stop calling him. We've told them over and over if they want to call and plan anything or see our son then call me. They refuse to do it, they won't call me becasue they don't want to deal with me since I have stopped them from getting their way several times now. I've also gotten publicly pissed when they tried to humilate me on a public social forum. I basically told his aunt she is uncouth (they called me that before it was LIBERATING lol) and to mind her buisiness where my son was concerned and lay off my husband. They know he works nights and sleeps days, they don't care. They're being rude. I've told them straight up. They just ignore me and go for him. It's making this process harder for him. I guess for all my rambling the main point is. We have been through quite an ordeal and it has been centered around church and christian values. I cannot remember so stressed an unhappy in my entire life and I had been through a lot before I ever met these people. I want to find that piece of myself again who was happy and felt full spiritually. And I want my husband not to feel anymore fear. I can always fight them, but I want him to gain himself...
  10. Say hello to our cat. She just posted before I was done . Anyway, We were contantly proving ourselves to the same people who stood around the day we got married. That's what the whole thing has come to. But wait it gets stranger. You wouldn't think so but it does. His family is so intent on controlling us because we are the waywards who never should have been. We tried to avoid them, They know people from all these churches all over the place. If we weren't there they knew. All of my sons teachers they knew and the teachers oddly never liked me and I had a very hard time with them. Something went on with my son at school. They knew. It got to the point we would be worried about anybody we talked to about anything because people love to climb their social ladders so they would in turn tell them what they know. It's not even anything THAT bad, it's just that they're creepy in the way they want all this intel and they judge us on any slight. My son didn't study like they thought he should ect...They don't even know because they're not here. They think is that our youngest son especially needs them becasue he doesn't have good role models in us. That's what makes me the most mad! They have talked about us behind our backs telling him about how his dad messed up his life. They told my husband one day in front of him that he's not a man because he didn't have his family in Church. This happened because of our response to the fact that they talked my son into going up front to get saved when he was 7 telling him it was his Spiritual Birthday. He thought he was getting presents. They wagged thier fingers at us and told us we missed a very important step for him. I got pissed and told my husband to go get him and that's what happened when he got there. We told them they couldn't take him to church anymore and started dealing with the guilt and fear over if it might have been real or not. This went on forever until we gave in to it and started participating. I led the youth. I LED THE YOUTH!! You know what those people didn't even care what was going on as long as the numbers were up. I started losing them when they would ask me hard questions that didn't make sense and I couldn't find a way to make it make sense I didn't think it made sense either. I would tell them I don't want to do this anymore. They would tell me there is nobody else to do this because they didn't want to pay a youth leader. I sang in Church all the time. I led a childrens choir, I cleaned the church, I taught VBS. As long as I was busy they would stay somewhat at bay. I knew that and I stayed busy. What happened? Who am I? What the hell am I doing? They don't even think anything of us now they're just leaving us alone a little more. This is what I would think then I would push it down because the stress they bring if I'm not doing it is worse than the stress of doing it. All of this and more has led us to this point. His family will never stop trying to make us go to church and especially trying to get to our kids, mainly the youngest to indoctrinate him. My anger comes from the fact that they are some of the meanest people I ever known and the fact that I feel like they have stolen 10 years of my kid away from me. We have had to fight like hell to instill any of our values and have been some successfull, but my son is at war with himself even now. He feels caught between us and his other family who do no approve of us. It's a terrible place for him to be, it's a terrible place for us to be. I don't even know how to begin to disect all of it now that we have FINALLY moved away. I wish we were further, but this distance is a good start. I went from being a spiritual person in a way that I understood to complete insanity for reasons I do not understand and now I just don't know.... Anyway, if anybody actually read all this congratulations. It helped to vent it out. I'm sure I'm also not coherent. We have a long way to go.
  11. Hello, I started a new post to introduce myself and talk a little more about this so my husbands post (Crow). I'm in my 30's. I'm not that much older than he is DANG! . He told you we have 2 boys. We celebrated our 10th wedding anniversary a couple of months ago. I noticed that he mentioned that I used to be Wiccan when he met me. I wasn't running around being all mysterious and all that, I used to practice by myself and very few people knew. I mention it because it's something I hope I can talk more about later. Short story on me and then I'll get to it. I grew up with my dad and stepmom, mom ran out early and the other two were pretty abusive. I got knocked around quite a bit and some of the crap they did was just unreal. I'll keep most of that to myself because this is not a abuse survival board and I've worked through all that. Just thought it would help to understand my point of view on things a bit. I was divorced before I met Crow. We were very young. Everybody survived.We get along and my oldest son is fine. Our families (besides Crows extended family) have blended very well. My ex mother in law even loves Crow and considers him another son. None of this makes any difference to his family though. They are about one thing and one thing only. Cooperate Christianity and you are either with it or there is hell to pay! They don't take credit cards though. They want peices of your sanity, dignity and self. I am first of all infuriated with the way they have treated my husband. I don't know how they ever expected anybody to keep up with all their demands. Be at church 3 to 4 days a week, go to high school, hold down a job, take dual enrollment classes. There was no refusing to do this. They put so much pressure on him to be the chosen one that he nearly lost his mind. When I met him he was in a terrible way. He was practicing a very dark form of Wicca. He was actually quite scary and I wasn't sure I should be talking to this guy. Somehow I just forged on. I felt a strong draw and connection to him. The more we talked and got to know each other we just fell for each other and after a while we found out we're having a baby. It was all very natural at first. Very unlike my first husband. Enter his ridiculous family. Rule #1 in NeoNazi Christian land. We DO NOT consort with people who are divorced. It is the equivilent of making it with a dirty pair of socks. Sooo that in combination with the fact that I grew up in a trailer park, didn't possess the typical blonde hair bob, small frame, no college degree or well known family meant "this girl needs to go". So they commenced operation get rid of me. They begged him and even offered to pay for him to have a full college ride, all expenses paid if he would agree to move away and work with them and lawyers to get my baby away from me. The idea was that he would go and they would raise him as their own. Nothing worked. He would not leave us. We were getting married. We wanted to go to courthouse and do it with our friends and people who were supportive of us.They forced us to get married in a church full of people I didn't know and the whole time they were all looking so judging at us and wouldn't even speak to me. It was by far one of the most embarrassing days for me. I just felt like I was suffocating anytime they were around. Still do.They would stare at me coldly and I could just feel the uneasiness. It was awful and had a part in causing us to start arguing. That and being new parents is never completely easy. A little bit later we moved out to this trailer in the county. It wasn't much, but it was paid for and we were affording everything ok. He was working 3rd shift. We had some trouble with our septic tank and at this time they been on him heavy about not living in a trailer. Well when the septic tank blew we didn't have a grand to get a new line and he didn't have time to fool with it working 3rd shift . His family made us an offer. Move near us and we'll help you guys out until Crow graduates and then you can do it on your own. It seemed at the time we didn't have a choice since we didn't have savings for the repair. They trapped us finanically..... That's when all hell broke loose (in the name of the lord of course). They demanded that we be present for church. There was no refusing. If we refused they would show up in a snit and take our kids. There was nothing we could say because "they" were helping "us". She inspected my sons clothes and if they weren't ironed properly making caddy commments. They took our son whenever they felt like it, made no apologies for us not being able to find him for 3 or 4 days. They came over to our house and would complain if it wasn't clean enough. Stand on our porch and call me trailer trash, say I go no raising when I did anything to offend them. I was meek at this time too and never said much of anything caddy, so the offenses would be something stupid like "we were 10 minutes late to a luncheon". They decided that it was time for me to have makeover since they couldn't get rid of me and took me to what they called "my big girl haircut" and made me wear clothes that wasn't me. Tried to dress it up I guess. They complained about my family (and they were crazy so..), they complained about my oldest sons dad, they wanted to get rid of his grandmother too. It was just so much and I'd never been around these types of people before so my mind was BLOWN. After a while I just started giving in and trying to be what I was supposed to be. At some point Crow lost his mind again and started failing school. The tyrany coming from them was constant so I now understand what was going on with him. I found out and there was a big thing and we ended up splitting up for a while. They were ELATED!! Man the guns and hire the lawyers. I tried to apologize to his mother one day for all the fuss and I'll never forget what she said to me. "I don't like you, you don't belong here, this is the way it is and this is the way it's always going to be". Then she flounced off. The only thing is that were weren't letting go that easy. We worked it out and decided they could no longer help us with anything because they were too controlling. We thought that would be the end of it. He started working, I started school and got some med certifications. Then they started guilt tripping us over the kids saying that they need us to get right with the Lord and we bought into it. The past years have been us trying so hard to fit in with what I now know is a society club. I tried to believe it. I tried to live it and it never mattered. We were always the ones who lost our way and had to prove ourselves week
  12. Ok, I'm here. Apologies. I've been extremely busy the past few days. Will work on a full profile later. I'm not going to go back and quote anything because you guys have done 2 pages of supportive conversation and I'll never find all that . He's right in that I am dealing with a lot more anger over everything. We've been dealing with an inordinate amount of B.S. for an entire decade. Only recently have I completely lifted the veil and decided "I'm done". Done with fake niceties, definately done with trying to be somebody I'm not, and compltely done with allowing my family to be used as pawns against each other in the name of the Lord AMEN. You can imagine I've created a bit of a stir as if that didn't happen the moment I stepped in, but I'll tell more on that. Crow would say I'm a bit of a "hothead" and I'm sure he's right. I'm relived that he understands it and by the time I've exhausted true stories it will become appearant that the fact that we're still together and friends after the past 10 years is nothing short of a miracle. It hasn't always been this way. I actually used to be gentle. Since I've been dealing with his family I've really become jaded and I'm not sure how to get back. Those people are insane and that's putting it mildly! I'm actually pretty dissapointed in myself for going along with all this crap for as long as I did. Anyway, before I digress too much further I'll start another thread. I just wanted to say hello on this thread and thankyou for all the imput and support Hey honey!!
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