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Everything posted by Geezer

  1. Religious indoctrination is so good and effective believers simply do not see the things you’ve listed. The indoctrination process has effectively turned their critical thinking skills and their brains normal cognitive dissonance responses off. And it’s difficult, to the point of being almost impossible, to turn their brains back on. Group think now controls them. They have essentially become programmed robots.
  2. Born again Christians do not think logically or rationally nor do they respond to evidence that challenges their “beliefs”. They believe historians and scientist are controlled by Satan, so therefore everything they say is the Devil speaking through them to deceive believers so the Devil can steal their souls. I have found it virtually impossible to have an intelligent conversation with a born again Christian fundamentalist. They are part of a cult and therefore only respond to other cult members. The only possible way this woman could ever be romantically interested in you would require you to become a member of her fundamentalist cult, but because the only scriptural divorce fundamentalist recognize is one based on adultery. And since both of you are divorced both divorces would have had to be based on adultery for the church to accept them as scriptural. Otherwise you both both would be living in sin and that would be unacceptable. I see little or no hope that you two will ever be able to have a romantic relationship again.
  3. A major problem in determining the historical accuracy of scripture and the Christian faith is that writings prior to the second century have been lost and or destroyed. Therefore, there are no eyewitness recordings of anything. All the “evidence” that exists is hearsay and therefore unreliable. Based on the information available I lean towards the probability that it is more likely, rather than less likely, that the Gospel story is just that....a fictional story and that would make the characters in that story fictional too. I think that also applies to Paul and his Epistles. The real authors of the Epistles created Paul as their fictional author. The surviving evidence suggest that Marcion and Simon Magus created the Christian religion using the fictional Gospel story as their inspiration. Marcion’s Churches were originally the most popular Christian Church until the Catholic Church excommunicated him. And when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire the Catholic Church ruled unopposed for centuries building up tremendous wealth and power. I think the probabilities indicate Christianity is based on a mythical story, with a mythical God/man hero, that came to save the world, and thanks to the Roman Empire it remains the most popular religion in the world today.
  4. Just a note, all scholars do not accept that Paul was a real person. The Fabricated Paul by Hermann Detering & The Colossal Apostle by Robert M Price are two examples of scholarly works that question whether the Apostle Paul was a real person. I think both noted authors present a strong case for Paul being a literary character. The alternative is that Marcion and Simon Magus wrote the Pauline Epistles and were the real creators of Christianity. Obviously the mentioned books would have to be read to become familiar with the evidence they present and then the reader will have to decide for themselves.
  5. Good video, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
  6. My journey out of religion has been completed but I stumbled on these videos and have invested hours watching them. They are the best I’ve ever encountered about why Christianity, or any religion, isn’t true. The creator of these videos is a clinical psychologist and he is amazing. I’m not going to link them just go to You Tube and in the search box type in Theramin Trees. You will find he has made a video for just about any question people ask about religion. These videos are truly excellent. It’s like gettin free therapy session for why leaving religion is the right choice. I will note he grew up in a religious fundamentalist home. I can can also recommend videos produced by Recovery From Religion. They have some excellent videos too.
  7. Geezer


    Welcome.I’m certain you will find this site helpful. Another good place to find help dealing with religious people is Recovering from Religion. They have a lot of good You Tube videos too.
  8. That is precisely the problem. Sex feels good, it’s pleasurable. Anything that feels good and gives pleasure must be sinful. I thought everyone knew that. The sight of a beautiful naked woman incites a man to lust for her. Therefore, beautiful naked woman are sinful. That implies the human body is sinful and thus sex is sinful. A basic truth of life. If it’s fun then it’s sinful or illegal and probably both. Religion is all about being miserable and feeling guilty all of the time.
  9. The Christian faith is full of contradictions, that are obvious to everyone but a Christian.
  10. On another site I engaged a fundy that was answering every question by quoting scripture. My response was to challenge the authenticity of scripture and it’s supposed inerrant status. We exchanged several posts. I presents numerous factual errors that are in the Bible and asked him how an inerrant Bible could contain such obvious flaws. To his credit he acknowledged that the Bible isn’t inerrant. Then I asked him how he could trust the Bible’s claims if it isn’t inerrant. When he got back to me he told me he’d been praying about this problem and he’d ask God why the Bible isn’t inerrant? Then he said God told him He didn’t need an inerrant Bible because He gave Him His Son and Jesus is all sufficient and all anyone needs to know. That was his final post to me. That exchange just confirmed that an indoctrinated mind will find a way to validate what it’s been trained to believe one way or another.
  11. It was inevitable that someone, or some group, was going to respond to the Muslim terrorist attacks. When militants posted video of decapitating people, coordinated attacks with automatic weapons that killed many people, planting hidden bombs, etc. They were inviting a deadly response. It was only a matter of time. And the retaliation began long before the NZ attack and it will likely continue. All this senseless killing of innocent people is horrific and sickening, but predictable. And sadly it will continue.
  12. Thank you, but I noted that David Nicholls was the author. I was referencing his article.
  13. The inherent problem with censorship is that it tends to grow and expand. We have seen that here in the U.S. with “political correctness”. An actual social judicial/punishment segment has been created. Say the wrong thing and a person’s life can be literally destroyed. Its out of control now because it has evolved into a form of mob rule and there doesn’t seem to be a way to control it, much less end it.
  14. In my experience there are Christians that “say” they don’t take the Bible literally, but it seems to me they pick and choose what parts they acknowledge as myth and which parts they take literally. If they didn’t accept that some of the Bible is literally true and historically accurate, I don’t think they’d be Christians. If they don’t believe Jesus was a real person/Deity why would they even claim to be a Christian? I think a person has to believe Jesus and God are one and the same to identify as a Christian. At least that much seems to be required.
  15. Welcome Jerry, and I’m glad you found the exit sign. Leaving religion is difficult but also exhilarating. I know you will find this site helpful.
  16. The purpose of Bible Study is to indoctrinate people into WHAT to believe. Critical thinking would be sinful and therefore excluded.
  17. Overcoming Religious Indoctrination: 6 Steps Towards Sanity David Nicholls Religious indoctrination is real. It is a traditionally-based process of all cultures. Its power is such that peoples so affected have a ‘belief’ they have chosen their particular ‘faith’ above the many on offer throughout the planet. All religions work on the principle of exposing each new generation to a single worldview, to the exclusion of all others, in a repetitious and authorative manner. Doubts, as to the veracity of such ‘teachings’, are not encouraged, indeed, are not tolerated. Once learned, the information so gained is retained for life, allowing it to take on an instinctive mantle in later years. As with all acquired knowledge, such as learning to ride a bicycle or rote remembrance of mathematical time’s tables, once taught, unlearning is not an easy option. This is not to say that the results of such methodology are not practically overcome-able. Youthful brains soak up information with little effort, establishing permanent neuronic pathways. Older brains require considerably more effort to alter this situation. There are many Atheists to attest to this. In fact, it is the rule rather than the rarity that most Atheists were raised from infancy under some religious regime or other. Even the most intense religious indoctrination can be overcome. Here is how it is achieved: First, one must become acquainted with and become used to the correct terminology pertaining to religious indoctrination. Even though the religious are quick to point out that others have been brainwashed (such as communists, other religious adherents and even Atheists), it is they who have succumbed to this process. Brainwashing/inculcation/indoctrination is one in the same word in meaning. These words are used in reference to promoting a one-sided opinion as being truthful, without allowing access to other ideas and with no reservation in calling it unjustifiably, the ‘truth’. Considering the adverse ramifications of such methods and results of brainwashing, this is nothing less than mental child abuse of the worst kind and one day it will be viewed that way. Just seriously think about this for a moment. If you are religious or harbour religious thoughts, it is more than most likely the result of being abused and mentally used as a child. There is no escaping this fact. That the abused can then go on to abuse others in a likewise fashion is near enough to proof positive of the reality of the situation. Under the guise of a good for humanity, the fear of death and/or eternal damnation is instilled into the pliable and susceptible minds of children and continues into adulthood. Sprinkled with tales of eternal life, temporal wishes supernaturally achievable, the unworthiness of humans and the existence of a ‘good’ and an ‘evil’, sets the mental scene for subservient confusion. Second, after recognising one has been abused and brainwashed against their will and without their knowledge, if escape is required, then effort to combat this negative outlook must be more intense and prolonged than the unwanted religious input. A good start is to fully appreciate that all religious people of the thousands of religions that have and do exist, have been similarly abused, with them considering that they have the correct religion and all others are wrong. Even religions under the same name can state unequivocally that their counterparts have it incorrect. As an example, fundamentalist Christianity classes the Pope as the Anti-Christ and Catholicism a heresy. Third, take a proper look at Earth. 50,000 Iranians have been recently killed by earthquake, 3,000 many-denominational people died in the Twin Towers, 6 million Jewish people died in the Holocaust etc etc. Where were their respective gods? They were remarkably silent as they have been throughout history in humanity’s darkest hours. Look at the system that sustains life on our planet: Every life form preys on another life form to exist. Some of this in such brutal and horrible fashion as to totally exclude the idea of a ‘loving’ god as the creator. Look how the dice of life favours some and is more than wretched to others. Look how natural disasters and pathogens kill and maim indiscriminately. Fourth, it must be consciously recognised that books and ideas of old came from ignorant times, and were written and passed on by ignorant men living by the malleable rules of all-encompassing superstition. Fifth, and most importantly, it must be remembered that religions have held sway since consciousness arrived many tens of thousands of years ago. It is only in the last few hundred years that science has leapt onto the scene, and in doing so, has began to devour the very pillars holding superstition aloft. Although it is not fully accepted yet, the one part of science that will eventually be seen as the most profound is the principle of evolution. Not only has science found no evidence for a supernatural realm, it has shown that evolution requires no such thing to sustain it. Sixth and lastly, it therefore has to be asked as to why a super-being or thing would initiate a universe with us as only an infinitesimal dot within it. The Universe works on definite laws in a rational manner. Even if quantum structure appears not to be so! Such a rational creative force would hardly expect us to accept the irrationality that is religion especially as it is introduced in the heinous form of child abuse. An all-loving god with control over every particle in existence, that chooses to allow immense suffering, cannot exist. An all-powerful god incapable of creating perfect happiness for its creation is an oxy-moronic concept. An all-knowing god that cannot see the inherent goodness of humanity and does not nurture and aid its creation in a fair and equitable manner is a god of immeasurably immoral proportion. These thoughts and similar must be the constant companion of the adult psyche wishing to escape the foolishness of religious mind control. Victims of child abuse can overcome the strong hold it has on them and in doing so can benefit greatly from the conflict. The brainwashing will always remain but in its subjugation it will eventually be replaced with feelings of pride of accomplishment.
  18. Candidates for office often come up with big ideas, that will pay people to vote for them. Vote for me and I’ll give you free universal health care, or a guaranteed monthly Income,or I’ll build a wall to protect our boarders. In order for campaign promises to become a reality they have to get through Congress, and that is no small task.
  19. Community has a tendency to morph into group think with leaders and followers. And with that comes rules, laws, and an expectation of loyalty to the group. This scenario repeats itself way to often.
  20. I thought I was reading my own story there for a little bit, including 4 years in the Navy, but as a Jet Engine Mechanic for me.The false teacher references brought me back to my Church of Christ days, a time I wish I could forget. The c of C has a real hang up about “false teachers”, meaning anyone that disagrees with their teaching. As I noted, I see many similarities in our stories. Glad that you found your way out of religion. I feel certain you will find this site helpful. Welcome aboard. Oh yeah, I’m a lefty too.
  21. Christian indoctrination begins in early childhood, or whenever the gospel is presented to someone, and it never stops.One of the purposes of indoctrination is to prevent the indoctrinated believer from asking questions, or worse yet for proof that the Bible is actually true. True faith precludes the need for evidence, in fact asking for evidence is believed to be a sin. The creators of Christianity did an amazing job of covering all their bases.
  22. All Gods and religions have human origins. If it had not been for Constantine, it is unlikely Christianity would have survived.
  23. I think the cause you’re looking for is called “Brainwashing”. And it’s been proven to be extremely effective. Evidence indicates higher education has no effect on it either. Once the God virus infects a brain it becomes almost impossible to extract it. And it is contagious too.
  24. Answering the original question. Scholarly research has established that Paul’s Jesus is a Spiritual being not an earthly one. Nothing in Paul’s writing even suggest Paul’s was aware an earthly Jesus ever existed. Paul seems to think Jesus was crucified in the Spiritual realm not on earth. Robert M Price, Richard Carrier, David Fitzgerald, and Hermann Detering are good scholarly resources. These scholars acknowledge there is no historical evidence that either Jesus or Paul ever existed in the flesh. The evidence suggest they were both literary figures not actual people.
  25. It seems I am a very fortunate person. I was a long time member of an extreme version of Christianity, but for me it was simply a matter of re-education. Once I became aware of the scholarship dedicated to the actual historical records of the origins and evolution of both the Bible and the Christian faith (Historical Critical field of study), and I studied and researched that information the indoctrination just went away. Leaving Christianity was relatively easy and I haven't second guessed my decision to walk away from religion, or the authenticity of the historical records that I studied. I was lucky, for me it was much like turning off a light switch. Knowing the historical facts made leaving easy because there was no reason to stay.
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