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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Quoth the raven, nevermore

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  1. end3 - you just don't get it. You can't even take your religious glasses off for half a second to answer her question about her story, can you? Afraid lighting will strike? I assure you, it won' us. Now go have another jug of Kool-Aid.
  2. Pastor Wants To Talk About My Faith

    I agree with everyone above who said if you don't want to meet with him, then don't. I chose to meet with my pastor when he reached out, and rather enjoyed talking to him. More than anything it served as affirmation that I was right, as he was unable to answer pretty much anything I threw at him. It never got contentious. One of my favorite things he said was in the first meeting, he tried this Jedi mind trick gem - "I see you coming through this with an even stronger faith than you had before, and being one of the best apologists in our church!". I felt like saying "Hey fucktard - this trick won't work on me...go try it on one of your sheeple". I called it off when he sent me a John MacArthur audio clip where he was talking about the problem beginning when people think they can question almighty dog. I listened to that, and sent him an email saying 'thanks - I'm out', basically. If your husband's a believer still, it might be helpful to have him tag along and listen to your pastor bumble his way to NOT answering any of your questions. Who knows, maybe he'll join you on the dark side! But again - completely your decision.
  3. Finally Came Out To My Mom...

    Hi Littlena, I would HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend you download Citsonga's "Letter to My Christian Parents" from August, 2011 (search 'letter to my Christian parents' and find the version he updated on post 13 I think). In a nutshell, he found himself in a similar position to you, and after being confronted by his parents, decided rather than talking about it, to write them a letter. The letter is roughly 50 pages, and is very well thought out, takes his parents through his reasons for disbelieving based on his vast study of Christianity. I had numerous people read this during my own 'coming out' period, and while it certainly didn't make anyone renounce their dearly held beliefs, it let them know that MY reasons for leaving the faith were based on rationality, morality, and a desire to know the truth, however painful. Best of luck to you. There's a light at the end of this us!
  4. Coffee With Fundies.

    Newlife - I too have coffee with a few Fundy buddies once or twice a month. They're good friends, and for the most part, we talk about life - wives, kids, jobs, etc. But once in a while, religion comes up. I'm not too good about keeping my mouth shut, which usually results in one or both of them rolling their eyes. But they don't actively argue religion with me, because they just can't make an argument that I can't easily dismantle (not trying to sound arrogant - but when you have the light of reason on your side, it's not a fair fight). These are good buddies all in all, and I like being around them. I'm assuming because you continue to get together with these guys, you enjoy being around your coffee companions as well. Stay the course - who knows, someday, their desire to KNOW just might outweigh their desire to believe.
  5. The Acceptance Phase / Spouse And Kids

    Hi you may or may not have seen from my post yesterday on this board, I'm in a similar situation as my wife still believes - me....not so much. Been a little over 2 1/2 yrs since I deconverted. We're on the verge of telling the 2 older kids (we have 4 total). My wife and I love each other very much, but this is definitely driving a wedge. Part of me resents the fact that she can read SOME of the same things I've read, and although I know full well she has no answer for it, she puts her head down and wills herself to believe in spite of the really good arguments to the contrary. The other part of me doesn't want her to lose her faith...but admittedly that part of me is retreating as the months tick by. It's unfortunate that when you think about it, this division is coming from the belief in an invisible sky imaginary friend, as it were. It's so clear to me now, and I find myself getting frustrated/angry with the people in my life that are so insanely UN-CURIOUS...I'm ashamed to have ever called myself a xtian, if this is what it means to be one. Sorry - didn't mean to make that all about me. All that said, you're in a rough spot, and I know it's hard. You two married each other because you loved each other, and it sounds like you still do. Hang on to that. Ask your husband to love you for who you are...not just who you were.
  6. Need Advice - How To Talk To The Kids

    Thackerie - thanks for the input. This is solid gold! Wait - were you confused and thinking that I was worried about having a conversation about what's for dinner tonight? Because it's actually not about dinner - it's about me not believing in the religion that I was part of brainwashing them into when starting when they were zero years old. But I could see your point if you didn't know what the thread was about.
  7. Need Advice - How To Talk To The Kids

    Thanks all. While I'd much prefer talking to them alone, I doubt that'll happen. And when they ask why this, or how come that...if I'm answering honestly, I can already see my wife bristle at the answers. Not sure how to handle that. So it WOULD help to hash this out ahead of time. On a side note, for the past 2 years, we've really been pretty infrequent church attenders. When I was a believer as well, we did Sunday morning, and Wed. night cell groups - kids did Awana/youth group etc. But again, past 2 yrs has been nothing but Sunday mornings, and even that was maybe once or twice a month. For the past month or so, my wife has really doubled down (probably sensing the upcoming conversation. She takes the kids to Sunday School, then Sunday morning servce, Sunday night youth group, and the mid-week service. Ugh. I obviously don't join her, but I still do the Sunday morning service (I went yesterday for the first time in 4 or 5 weeks). Just thought I'd throw this in there as it's obviously relevant.
  8. Need Advice - How To Talk To The Kids

    Hi all, So I deconverted in early wife of 18 years is still a believer. We have 4 kids...15, 12, 9 and 7. We need to talk to the older 2 within the next week or so. They already know something's up as they've made numerous comments lately (I don't attend church as much anymore, NEVER pray before meals or at bedtime, etc). My wife wants to talk just the two of us first - odd, because in the past 6-12 months, she's not wanted to discuss religion at all with me. I think it's very hard for her to hear just how calmly and dismissively I talk about God, the Bible, and Xtianity. In any event, I'd really rather have the conversation with the kids alone...the last thing I want is my wife (who I still love very much) sobbing in the corner while I tell my story - a story I'm quite proud of. So all that said, I'd like to know your thoughts about 1) the conversation with my wife, and 2) the conversation with the older 2 kids. I think it'll be very hard to tell my story without having it affect their faith - I've told my wife repeatedly that I'm not trying to deconvert the family here. I also don't want them think Daddy's going to an eternal torture chamber when he dies. I'M not afraid of this...I certainly don't want them worrying about it. Thanks!!
  9. Writing An Open Letter

    I'd love to read it and offer feedback, Scottsman.
  10. Serious Question For Christians

    No other Christians on this board that have a potential answer for this?
  11. Serious Question For Christians

    Ironhorse, you continue to miss the point. Read Isaiah 7 (the whole entire chapter...beginning to end) and ask yourself the following: With respect to the sign, who is it being given to? What is this a sign of? When will this take place? If you can answer these questions, you'll begin to see how a fulfillment in the birth of Jesus hundreds of years later as this 'sign', is patently absurd. It cannot be believed by a thinking person. Further, what a slap in the face it would have been to Ahaz to say "Don't worry proof that these two kings will not prevail against you, a woman's going to have a kid like 500 years from now who's gonna be really great". What?!? I can just see the relief on Ahaz's face! How you [mis]translate the word Almah is completely irrelevant. You still have all your work ahead of you in answering the questions above, and making it fit with Jesus' birth.
  12. Serious Question For Christians

    Ironhorse - I again would challenge you to read the Thomas Paine article, which you clearly didn't. What is it that drives you to respond to something without investigating it for yourself? I'm not trying to be insulting, but I don't understand. Do you think so little of your faith, that you don't think it can withstand some criticism? Or are you worried you'll upset the Dear Leader? Read the article. What you said about 'interpreting a passage' is just not true. In nearly every case of the gospel writers quoting OT messianic prophecy, they say "that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying.....". And they go on to quote something that is clearly not a prophecy, or just not a prophecy about Christ. Again, you would know this if you bothered to read the article. But you didn't. Again. And you responded as though you did. Again. Either stop replying to this thread, or read the article before responding.
  13. Serious Question For Christians

    On a side note, I forwarded the Thomas Paine link to my father in law (a former pastor, and very fundamentalist Baptist) a month or so ago right before he went on vacation. He was going to read it, and discuss it with me when he gets back, which will be in a day or so. I'm very interested to see that he says. This is such an interesting one to me because with other Bible problems (contradictions, scientific errors, etc), there are answers people use to address them. Bad answers...illogical answers...WRONG answers....but answers. With this one in particular, I really don't see any answer no matter how much mental gymnastics you're willing to do. End3...anything?
  14. Serious Question For Christians

    I agree with all that. I must say I really am surprised that no Christian has even given it the college try to offer a valid explanation for this. Cognitive dissonance at work, I guess.
  15. Serious Question For Christians

    I don't know about God, but someone is the author of confusion, because there's a shitload of it in the Bible. One of my favorite things to do, in the spirit of making sure I'm always seeing both sides of an issue, is to listen to podcasts of church sermons on messianic prophecy. Nearly every time, when an OT prophetic fulfillment is referenced, the pastor will only read the verse (or portion of a verse) in the OT that the gospel writer referenced, and not the passage as a whole. Case in point - Matthew references how Jesus and his parents went to Egypt, then returned to Israel as a fulfillment of Hosea's (11:1) messianic prophecy of "out of Egypt I called my son". First, Hosea is referencing a PAST event (hint: the opposite of a prophecy) - he's talking about God calling the Israelites out of Egypt where they were being held captive. There is zero debate here. But the fun part is if you read the very next verse it talks about sacrificing to Baals, and burning incense to images! Jeez, what was that NT passage about Jesus - no doubt in his rebellious teenage years - sacrificing to false gods and burning incense? No doubt the incense was to cover the smell of weed. This sort of chicanery is the equivalent of me saying that Genesis, when referring to Eve eating the forbidden fruit, was a prophecy about my wife, and was fulfilled last week when she ate the last banana, which I told her was for my freaking lunch!! Okay, I'm done.