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Joshpantera last won the day on October 14

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About Joshpantera

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    Architect (INTJ-T)

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    US of A
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  • More About Me
    I'm an over 25 year deconvert. Well read on how christianity fits into the world along side of other religions. And how those apply to atheism and non belief. My view is unorthodox to say the least.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    I don't believe they exist

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  1. Joshpantera

    Intro to Zen - Alan Watts

    I know what you mean, there's a guy down here who was raised Nichiren and it amounts to the Jehovah's Witness of Buddhism. The guy kept giving me pamphlets and I looked it up. That does mirror christianity. And I'm sure other aspects do as well. But I'm not trying to defend Buddhism, I'm talking about eastern philosophy as a whole which is something that Buddhism took and tried running with. The philosophical aspects of the Upanishads. The grand realization of Advaita Vedanta, "tat tvam asi." That sort of philosophical, not structured religious content. I have actively resisted becoming Buddhist because I have similar disagreements with it. I think it's ancient and outdated like the rest. My interests in pantheism are more modern, scientific pantheism and philosophical, not religious oriented. The ancient versions simply representing a stage in man's philosophical evolution. Obviously I agree with the above. But regardless, it's sophisticated in comparison to something as dumbed down as christianity. I think modern pantheism is more sophisticated than ancient pantheism. Yeah, here we are. Well over it's peak and on the down hill slide of it's duration as relevant. It will have to get down below 50% before I think it's political relevance will finally be over. But it's dropping pretty steady. They probably would. We're like the Moses of this transitional time period. Most of us are probably too old to see the promised land of christianity finally paying the price for it's sins. But the promised land doesn't seem all that far off at this point.
  2. Joshpantera

    Non Dual Awareness

    I think so. When that interconnection is personified and taken literally as a personal god, that tends to negate the spiritual outlook. When someone is thinking in terms of one true god, one true people, spirituality has pretty much gone out the window. That's an ego trip in and of itself. And that's why we see so many christians who are nothing more than elitist egos. It a religious that allows for people who are basically not spiritual at all, to feel as if they are part of a spiritual community. It's a sort of psuedo-spiritual tradition in that way. When people don't understand this aspect of christianity it's easy to fall back into it if they start feeling like atheism is empty or devoid of meaning. But understanding this clearly, ought to result in knowing better than to turn back to christianity when purpose and meaning becomes a struggle. Tossing organized religions and simply focusing on our personal consciousness, individuality and greater interconnection in the grand scheme seems a much better way of navigating these waters. The experience she's talking about in the video, I think comes from the ability in people to self recognize their place in the scheme of existence. You don't even have to meditate. You can logically deduce everything she said by just thinking on these issues. And I think that's why the "mystical realization" pops up so much in so many cultures. It's nothing more than a waking up and self recognition. Expressed in the Upanishads as, "I am that."
  3. Joshpantera

    Recurring fears

    He is arrogant and dismissive and I see how off putting that can be for some people. But I've seldom found him to be wrong. Whether he's raised the bar too high is a fair question, though. This can be more simply put. The bible is a collection of religious writings which are biased towards their own religious claim making. Something like the resurrection, is an evolving story that evolved over time, along with all of the miracles in these stories. Matt's position here is that the bible (a collection of biased religious writings) do not prove the claims found only within the bible. These claims are not attested by contemporary historians of the time and place. History is silent, aside from these religious writings that popped up and began to evolve long after the contemporary time period of the claimed events. Starting with Paul's writings which have been argued to be about a celestial drama of gnostic orientation. But we don't have to go into that at the moment. What we have here is a simple look at how myths evolve through time. And how many different writings take place within the group context of myth making and can be rolled together (no matter how contradicting) into a single collection of myths. And the above chart is generous, there's later dating theories on the table that go further into the 2nd century. You're on solid grounds with the opinion above. Anything dependent on WLC is a huge red flag. These are some of WLC's arguments rebutted by Richard Carrier:
  4. Richard Carrier, take it away:
  5. Joshpantera

    Recurring fears

    Kat, I'm joking but what you're doing is not left field at all. Seeing patterns and signs all around us goes into the territory of human nature. It's not easy shifting away from this game of make believe and being done with it forever. Especially if it's deep rooted. We've had members here knee jerk back and forth between belief and non-belief pretty hard, and in real time posting about it as it was happening. It's make believe though, I bet my life on it. I'm 100% all in. Making the percentage of wondering if maybe there is a hell and that I may find myself there, a flat 0% I know too much about it to believe in it.....
  6. Joshpantera

    The universe may be conscious.

    Margee's TED video wound up having some relevant crossover to these discussion on the primacy of consciousness, Hoffman's work on evolution conditioning us towards fitness over truth (left hemisphere dominance over right hemisphere dominance?) specifically: This all goes into our perceptions of an external reality of various energy which we interpret, usually left hemisphere dominant, inside of our minds. Hinder or take away the left hemisphere and it all starts to melt together, so to speak, and looses individuality. And that may be closer to a 'truth over fitness' perception, following behind the content of Donald Hoffman's presentations. And possibly cross over into the altered states of consciousness experiences issue too.
  7. Joshpantera

    Intro to Zen - Alan Watts

    They have similarities. But christianity is still a dumbed down version in comparison. It's basically the ancient solar mysteries turned inside out from esoteric to exoteric. And conceptualizing god as transcendent and keeping to the logic, with Advaita Vedanta and the "tat tvam asi" genre, makes for a higher level spiritual outlook because there can't very well be anything higher than fully and completely transcendent. Christianity is based on worshiping a "mask of god," and never making it to the transcendent realization level of human spirituality. The low rung status is what it is. I choose not to affiliate with either, though. I'm good as an agnostic atheist who understands human spirituality and just takes it for what it is - various human concepts. Pantheist friendly, maybe pagan friendly as well. Concerned with consciousness, but not in a structured religious sense. And that's where all of this is headed.
  8. Joshpantera

    Intro to Zen - Alan Watts

    Yeah, they were already going that way and now I've arrived.
  9. Joshpantera

    Hurricane Michael, heads up Panhandle.

    Well as far as staying away for a while, state parks and most camp grounds are cheap. $20 - $30 a night. All the power you use hooked up is part of the price. Then there's off the grid with the on board generator. Walmart parking lots and places like that.
  10. Joshpantera

    Recurring fears

    Maybe try asking god again, "are you there as in everyone and everything, within me and all things. Ring once for yes, twice for no."
  11. Joshpantera

    Hurricane Michael, heads up Panhandle. I've been looking at class C motor homes. I don't want a big to do class A, just something I can load the family in and evacuate several states away if I have to. And be able to live comfortable out of the motor home when returning if the power is off for a long time. That, and I just want one for vacations anyways. But it seems like a good way of living through these hurricanes to boot.
  12. Joshpantera

    Recurring fears

    What threw you off?
  13. Joshpantera

    Recurring fears

    You mean deconverted? When people pray to a god perceived as out there somewhere for forgiveness, they are in effect speaking to themselves in their own minds (in internal dialogue) which amount to asking themselves for forgiveness. But they project it outwards. This is the ego mind at work again. But it's all in the mind. If any one feels forgiven, what else could it be aside from them forgiving themselves internally for something they regret doing? And feeling watched all the time because there is more than one type of consciousness taking place within our minds. Something, in effect, is always watching internally like a witness or bystander. But it's clearly the different types of consciousness taking place within our own minds. This explanation should make more sense if you take in and comprehend the Alan Watts videos about god, jesus and the rest of humanity. It gives another dimension to pose these questions against.
  14. Joshpantera

    Fear of Death

    Did you watch the TED talk on the 2nd post by Margee? Our current conversation has gone to the esoteric and exoteric aspects of religion, which tend to contradict one another. These are not different than what's happening between the two hemisphere's of the brain. What she is describing is the right as esoteric and all encompassing minded, and the left exoteric and focused on bringing the whole down to a finite perception. In short, the heaven and hell situation is dualistic, it's a pair of perceived opposites. One thing here, another thing over there. That is the product of the human left hemisphere brain in action. That's the, as it were, non-spiritual side of the brain. Just take that in for a moment. We're looking right at how the bible is not only man made and full of inconsistent and contradicting concepts, but specifically WHY something produced by human minds would amount to inconsistent concepts between an all encompassing view (right hemisphere) tossed in along side not all encompassing views (left hemisphere) about god, after life, and the whole thing. It's in effect the non-spiritual oriented, left side of the brain informing the less than all encompassing ideas found in the christian mythology. And that's a direct reflection of the ego consciousness of those human writers, to be frank. It's a religion (in it's orthodox presentation) based on emphasizing ego consciousness rather than something spiritual oriented like something more along the lines of transcendent of ego consciousness. Conceiving of an after life about pearly gates, streets of gold, jeweled crowns and other MATERIALISTIC concepts such as fire and brimstone, flames and burning, are the product of appealing to an ego consciousness (left hemisphere dominant) which only understands in terms of materialistic concepts and reasoning. When I say christianity today is very low rung on the spiritual and philosophical spectrum, I mean that very bluntly. Hell is complete and total horse shit through and through, whether you take an atheist position or spiritual minded theistic position. It's the dumbing down of religion applied to the masses. And you can beat this thing if you continue trying!
  15. Joshpantera

    I believe in Jesus again