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Joshpantera last won the day on October 19

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About Joshpantera

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    I'm a 30-year deconvert as of 2021. I've gone off exploring a lot of science, religion, philosophy, biblical criticism, archaeology, eastern mystical content, and comparative mythology, religion, and esoteric content. I'm atheistic about gods and mythology with a pantheistic spiritual side about nature and the cosmos.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    I don't believe in god(s)

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  1. I like what they did in "The Others." Kidman is acting very preachy from the outset and then realizes that the afterlife has nothing to do with God or the bible. Still supernatural, but takes a shot at the bible as bullshit. With church attendance and religious affiliation in steady decline this century, I'd expect that to translate into more and more of it showing up in Hollywood and pop culture. As trends change so will the entertainment world....
  2. Early critics of christianity were pointing this out from the beginning. They were targeting those who lacked in education at the time or who were easily manipulated. Critics called them out on it.
  3. That's just it. Someone comes here claiming that a god exists, the response is people lining up asking for the evidence which verifies the claim. The general trend is to question extraordinary claims. And this is well understood by many. But when we turn to the jesus issue, as you've seen in this thread, the burden of proof requirement isn't nearly as well understood by nearly as many people. Nevertheless, it's the exact same issue as claiming that a god exists. Where is the evidence for the claim? How is the claim that jesus really existed proven? The fact is that it can't be proven and the burden is never satisfied. Can't prove god. Nor can anyone prove that jesus existed either. It's a complete loss. The bible doesn't prove it's own claims. Obscure and suspect references found in late, completely non-contemporary pagan sources don't prove anything either. And that's literally all they have to go on. Proving the existence of a god is on sand foundations. Proving the existence of jesus is likewise on sand foundations.
  4. Yes, there's a lot of playing in the theists sand box with this one. But the points still remain. The bible is full of bullshit, even by it's OWN standards....
  5. We've had a lot of horror stories come through here. A woman came on here a while back with an especially bad one where her father abused the hell out of her physically and sexually. This man was evil incarnate. And somehow this all played out through a christian scenario. That particular story sticks out in my mind. Because it was absolutely terrible what he did to his own daughter. It infuriates me to think about it. I have rescue dogs which are really edgy do to former abuses. I've babied them and spoiled them rotten with attention to counter act their past. And they're really good dogs for the most part. But terrified of certain things. They're about as rehabilitated as they can be. But never 100% Humans aren't very different. When people are mistreated, beaten, abused, and the rest, it sticks with them for life. I think everyone has the hope of working it out as best as they can. But they'll never be as though none of it every happened. That's where the counseling comes in. Lot's of people who visit here have sought out professional counseling from secular professionals and have experiences some degree of success. Both you and your girlfriend sound like you ought to get involved in some professional level counseling do the trauma's you mention. I think you have just as good a hope as anyone else for getting to a place where you're as rehabilitated as you can be. Horrible past, you didn't deserve any of it and none it every should have happened to you. What we can offer here is community and friendship. If you decide to stick around you can make friends with people who come from similar backgrounds and you can discuss anything to do with it. People debate around about things and sometimes there's heated discussion. That's just the nature of online forums. But it is nice to be able to check in and discuss things and even debate issues among peers at times. We just prefer to keep away from political issues because though we're all ex christian, we have diverse political views and there's no consensus on where politics go after leaving the faith. If getting more of this off your chest helps, please continue. We'll be reading along and responding.
  6. Well praise jesus! Seriously, what in the hell were your parents thinking??? I would have beat his ass right there on the spot, no questions asked, if I saw him with my kids pants down!!! I was lucky enough to stay clear of these pedophiles while I was growing up, but they were always around. My pastors father-in-law was never seen without street boys that he would take in and give a home to. He was a pastor as well. What finally got him jammed up was a habit of taking kids swimming in the lake behind the church. He stuck his hands down one of my younger brother's friends pants. The boy didn't let it go, he reported it. Then years of bs started coming to light. We had an ex SDA pastor using a storage shed that my employer owned. The ex pastor hadn't payed his bills for a long time so my employer told his son and I to go clear out all the contents and take it to his house. As we started loading things up shit got strange. I first found piles of nudist community magazines. With lots of naked kids illustrated. Me and the other guy started making jokes. Then we started finding shit that was ultimately turned over to the states attorney. Turns out he was uploading porn at home and the whole thing blew up in his face. I was glad to have contributed to his demise. Christianity tends to foster a wide variety of fucked up characters. Under the banner of righteousness. I'm sure you realize that the reality is that christianity has been false all along. And all of the characters, fucked up or otherwise, are simply people who are deluded into believing it's true. We represent those who pushed past the delusion and overcame it for one reason or another. Lot's of people here either experienced this sort of sexual abuse or were witness to it happening to others. It's common across the board of christian denominations. Check out some of the stories of abuse in the Amish communities. It's all over the place. So you're not alone, that's for sure. The other issue is that you'd get stories like this from any religious community. Because the sexual abuse problem transcends religions and is a human problem at it's core. Religions just happen to create an environment full of children which sexual deviants tend to take advantage of. Whether they actually believe the religion is hard to say. I bet a lot of them don't. I'm sure some of them think they can 'pray it off' and repeat the offenses over and over again. It just tends to help with perspective to span out and see these kinds of problems on large scale and acknowledge that they are ultimate human problems that involve all types of people from all types of beliefs. And in that sense you are really not alone! It's all over the world.
  7. The other issue is that the delta spike is doing here what it did elsewhere. Providing a short lived variant spike in new cases that rockets up, get's media hype, then plummets down as the media starts to quite down again. We're well on the back side of this one already. Until the next time. It clearly ebbs and flows on it's own. And our efforts very likely have little affect on final outcomes. COVID-19 in Florida: State reports 3,782 new cases, drops to 44th among states in cases per capita Here are the updated statistics on COVID-19 in Florida including new cases, deaths, hospitalizations, testing positivity and ... Orlando Sentinel8h
  8. Yes, that's the bottom line. Carrier is simply making objective arguments with the facts on his side. Ehrman makes a lot of claims that he should know are false. If he knows then it's intellectually dishonest and what's up with that? If he doesn't know then I suppose this demonstrates the reach of cognitive dissonance out of christianity to an agnostic former christian. It's really bizarre to see how Ehrman tries to maneuver. He's not very objective at all and he can hardly follow simple logic. He even has a very preachy tone as he makes his case, as if made from the pulpit. Robert, after seeing this exchange I'd say you're exactly right. He must be too scared to debate Carrier. And figured that Bob Price wouldn't be as savage. In any event, Price ought to use Carrier's arguments if it comes up again. If new generations start growing up familiar with the sort of arguments from objectivity and historical timeline accuracy that Carrier is making, it could change the landscape of academia eventually. Our member Pantheory has pointed out in passing, several times, that it's ridiculous that people don't see the biblical narrative like Greek mythology. But in time, what else could happen? Eventually that seems like the only way people will be able to see it. That's where the facts lead. That's where objectivity leads.
  9. As mentioned earlier in this thread, we don't have a live debate between Carrier and Ehrman because Ehrman won't do the debate. But here's a video where they took Ehrman's points from DJE and let Carrier respond in debate to each of the claims: Ehrman's pretty much wrong down the line. One claim after the next. And it sheds light on how narrow Ehrman's scholarly expertise is. He's not very multidisciplinary at all. He throws up logical fallacies to the point where it becomes questionable as to how well he understands logic in general.
  10. This just came up. Carrier and MacDonald discuss the dying and rising godmen issue:
  11. Welcome aboard! Yes, humanism is often used as a make-shift replacement for religion. With religious attitudes going around and all. Better leave it be. The concept makes sense, but the religious attitudes of many humanist's go the direction of group think and crowd control. In short, another version of the very thing you just got out of.
  12. An all knowing god would know and realize that contemporary witnesses and historical documentation and verification would be in order, IF demonstrating to the world that his son came to earth and lived and died a human life was the objective of the plan of salvation! The fact that no such strong contemporary evidences exist speak to the unlikely nature of the believer position. And it speaks to the historicist position of simply accepting the believer position, minus anything that sounds supernatural or too theological to be real. The continuity doesn't appear to be there to support a stripped down, secular historicist position. The fact remains that Paul's Jesus isn't historical and the interpolations show the intent of later scribes to try and color in the epistles to reflect the gospel content. When originally it doesn't look to be there.
  13. I started a thread on this next video: The mystery school transmission of content to early christianity is laid out in the first few minutes. They were largely solar mysteries oriented and therefore all else involved - astrotheology, probably precession mythology, astrological symbolism, etc.,etc. That's the connection to Paul that answers the questions here. Carrier lays out how global salvation was changed to a more personal salvation through the mysteries. And that Judea was late on the scene to invent a mystery school cult like this. Paul was doing a solar mysteries cult. Focused firmly on personal salvation in lock step with the previous solar mysteries. That solar mystery cult teaching apparently involved a "celestial spheres jesus" concept as part of the presentation. It really can't be either it's a solar myth or celestial being situation, both are part of the Osirian mysteries and others. There's not a choice between is Carrier right or are you right, you both pretty much have to be right because the solar mysteries that informed the early 1st century had been both all along. So when Mark comes in after Paul and lays out the global salvation allegories, it looks as though he was merely choosing to emphasize the older global salvation theme which had shifted in the mystery school cults to personal salvation. Carrier himself is basically saying that the global salvation idea had greater antiquity. If that's the case, and Mark was emphasizing that aspect, then Mark was bringing an older concept back into focus again, much more so than Paul's focus.
  14. Here it is folks: Carrier walks his way through a very likely scenario for christian origins. This way is completely objective by way of the evidences and how the evidences appear in historical order. It paints a different picture than what most people are used to. But he makes it very understandable in this interview.
  15. Yes, it's much more dramatic coming from the fundy sector. Hopefully these two brothers continue on with their journeys and find more answers as they move on with their lives.
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