Joshpantera

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Everything posted by Joshpantera

  1. Joshpantera

    PSIENCE

    Dean Radin's brand of science: PSI-ence.
  2. Joshpantera

    Hey. my name is Jeffrey

    Welcome aboard! Looks like you're sorting things out.
  3. Joshpantera

    Religious experiences

    @Kat34 I have a civil discussion going at Christforums at the moment. I'm going to leave a link to the current discussion and invite you to watch the back and forth between myself and the christians there: https://www.christforums.com/topic/15788-why-doesnt-god-heal-amputees/# You can decide based on the exchanges who you think may be more correct than the other. These christians quote John a lot, John being the most mystical gospel and oriented towards bringing Gnostics into the orthodoxy. So I intend to use the language of John's mystical bent to communicate with them. And we'll see what happens. I may or may not get some of these points through to them. But I will try. It's not a stand offish, usual atheist verses christian exchange. Just laid back and casual discussion.
  4. Joshpantera

    Greetings!

    As a matter of fact William ( @Christforums ) announced to his audience that we are honored guests. And so far his audience are treating myself and the other's who have joined as such. This is not the usual apologetic situation, folks. Which is why I'm trying to better under his positions. I'm trying to return the favor - per the honored quest treatment.
  5. Joshpantera

    Greetings!

    William, the natives are restless. I think the issue of Calvinistic predeterminism is what the questions have turned to. Do you believe that this spiritual regeneration is tied into a deterministic setting? As in, part of some of our predetermined path to salvation involved leaving the faith and then coming back in to it, via the holy spirit's intervention and god's master plan for our lives and salvation? And for others, predetermined as the lost? To which your position would be to lay back on the "works," as it were, and let the holy spirit guide and use you as an instrument accordingly? I have been curious what your position has been. And it looks like we're coming to more clarity. If I've interpreted the above correctly that it is. If not, I'd enjoy knowing where my assumptions are incorrect. Thanks.
  6. Joshpantera

    Greetings!

    I see you've allowed it. And the representation on behalf of ex-C is a sincere one. I'm just catching up on the goings on. I'm sorry if you felt ganged up on in the Lion's Den. I thought that you were coming on here in a brazen manor, not caring whether or not you'd be taking on a crowd. The first options I linked were oriented towards more orderly debate. The Lion's Den is informal. I saw some light teasing about the "lemme" issue, I don't think that was meant as an Ad Hom attack but I can see that you signed off pretty much when that started up. They're just teasing because a female apologist recently came here in a blaze and left very abruptly too. She was using the same term and it's just an inside joke. I've joined too, in any case. https://www.christforums.com/topic/15788-why-doesnt-god-heal-amputees/#
  7. Joshpantera

    Given your options

    Yes indeed. Below is what I told him: I don't know if he linked the discussion or not. If he did then the offer still stands for his audience to come and interact here, whether for proselytizing or otherwise.
  8. Joshpantera

    Given your options

    When William first posted and asked for debater's I thought he was the debating type. I didn't think he'd fold so easily. I literally suggested he go to the Den in the morning and when I returned home from work he was gone. But he did say that he happened across this site on a google search and hasn't had interaction with people like this before. It's possible that he actually didn't see any of this coming and hasn't any experience with going head to head with atheists and the usual outcomes.
  9. Joshpantera

    Given your options

    I was referring to a potential budget meeting. Where one party may say up front that they're unwilling to budge and the other party gets up and walks out. 🤣 Just for a funny aside....
  10. Joshpantera

    Religious experiences

    If you want a non Abrahamic example, I tend to get a type of religious experience sometimes just sitting in a nice botanical garden taking it all in. Feeling the strong inter-connectivity of the natural world. Especially if I'm speaking to others about pantheistic nature philosophy while there. It's identical to the same feelings I'd get from a church service full of group energy back in the day. I feel pretty religious about the ocean, too. The last time I was in Vegas it was very surreal - being displaced from the ocean based tropics to the desert. I was looking around at the dry desert mountains and landscape and it occur'd to me why deserts have traditionally held so much spiritual value. Being alone with one's thoughts and what not. Go out into the desert, come back transformed.
  11. Joshpantera

    Given your options

    This may be totally off topic (hint, hint), and I digress, but why does this sound so familiar? Let's say there were to be a meeting to try and discuss something and try and come to terms. And one party stated up front that they were unwilling to change their mind going in to it. And at that, the other party just up and walked out. Given your opinion above, would the party who up and walked out be justified in doing so? Yes or no? 🤣
  12. Joshpantera

    Given your options

    That's it?
  13. Joshpantera

    Greetings!

    We have several debate forums set up here already. Both formal and informal: https://www.ex-christian.net/forum/18-the-arena/ https://www.ex-christian.net/forum/23-colosseum/ As LF just mentioned, we have a completely informal sub forum entitled, "The Lion's Den." https://www.ex-christian.net/forum/6-the-lions-den/ We can see what the others think about it. But you're always free to start up a topic here and link your audience to it. You're also free to have your audience join here. The only rule about that is that proselytizing oriented discussions are to be held in the Lion's Den. We have people who are recovering from awful christian experiences and we don't allow christians to just run wild proselytizing or annoying people across the board. If anyone does that we'll move the topic or post to the Lion's Den and it will show as moved. I like the courage you've shown here so far. Some of us were born into christian sects and fed indoctrination from birth. We were read Uncle Authors bed time stories as children and attended christian school systems all the way through - that would be me. Realizing that christianity is wrong on so many levels, and leaving it behind in order to continue looking for what may actually be true, is where I'm at with it. My opinion is that christianity is a stumbling block type of religion along the truth seeking path and that it represents a pit fall that unsuspecting people can get stuck in. So that's where I see you at presently, stuck. But your courage levels tend to reveal that you might actually be receptive to following through with truth seeking and moving on, if you honestly come to realize where you went wrong joining christianity. Running head long into sketchy sites that have already been red flagged as sketchy is something that we may not encourage anyone to do, though. Especially when we already have fully functional and protected debate forums here. So if you're really interested in having these debates then I'd suggest striking them up here with us and linking your audience to the debates. That's my initial take on it. Super mod's? @SkipNChurch @florduh
  14. Joshpantera

    China in space - acheivements etc

    I'm pretty sure they put a mirror type reflector on the moon and have been measuring the distance between earth and moon with via lasers aimed at the reflector. Leading the discovery that the moon is slow drifting away from the earth and that it came from an inner planetary collision in the early solar system. Reflector didn't get there by itself..... https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2004/21jul_llr
  15. Joshpantera

    QUESTIONS FOR CHRISTIAN APOLOGISTS

    Not too many apologists around these days, unless they're lurking around.
  16. Here it is, thick skin time. Ex christians believing in or practicing woo of any non-christian bent. Those against it, lay out the case. Outline the problems. Leave no stone un-turned. Is there some pressing issue with someone who wants to practice magic, dance naked under a full moon, cast hex's and spells, worship Zeus, or believe in their pre-christian ancestral gods? If so, then why?
  17. Joshpantera

    Ex Christian Spirituality: The rough treatment

    You just get right in to it. Start folding and chant:
  18. Joshpantera

    CAN WE RESTORE A SENSE OF COMMUNITY?

    I've been talking about this kind of thing recently with a friend here. Trying to think of some possibilities for that sort of socialization for ex christians and the non-religious in general. One thing that comes to mind is that a lot of people go to church out of thinking they ought to, or that they have to in some way. When they lose the delusion of thinking it's necessary for their salvation or whatever, they drift off because it's no longer thought of as a requirement. I stopped believing in the faith as a freshman at christian boarding academy. And then had to proceed to do four years of forced bible class, daily worship, and church attendance at threat of punishment if I opted not to attend. After I graduated I told my parents that's it, I will not be attending church any longer and that's that. I fought with dad about it for a while until he gave up trying (my parents eventually followed my lead and left the church too). And I've existed in and around my former religious community as a non believer. I've dated and married within in it as a non believer. I've never attended services after academy, though. Only the odd funeral. The point being, take away the belief that you must go to services, or else, and there's no good reason to keep going to something that ridiculous and drab. But if a secular rendition of some type of service was cool in some way, enjoyable and entertaining enough for people to attend without the added baggage of threat involved, then maybe it could counter religious services. It would probably be something more along the lines of listening to a TED talk, than going to hear a sermon. I'm not opposed to secularists taking a look at trying to gather and make the effort to do good in life. Live moral, from the perspective of modern society and not the bronze age. And not at threat of burning in hell or gaining eternal rewards. Doing good for the sake of doing good and that's it. So I feel you on this. From certain perspectives it can make sense IMO.
  19. Joshpantera

    Maybe Atheist

    Welcome Mandy! Myrkhoos has it right. Simply put, you can be an agnostic atheist and in fact there are a lot of ex christians who are. For the reasons he's already pointed out. Good job explaining that @Myrkhoos
  20. Have you read any of the other threads in here about consciousness in this section? We have several. The idealist impression is that consciousness is something that's primary, the material universe arising from it. The sub conscious mind in communication with the whole and that sort of thing. That's one avenue of exploration which doesn't amount to the bible god, but could explain a good deal of the "unexplained." And whether getting into idealist pantheism, panpsychism and that sort of thing, or just a regular secular and materialistic scientific view, it would have to be you making the voices in some way, maybe your dad in the one instance. But since it's not limited to possibly your dad, it would have to be something more than just that. If you look at my Psi-ence thread, is goes into what I've reading from Dean Radin PhD about psi phenomenon. The scientific evidence for "theurgy," (spirits and gods basically) does have some basis in testing, but it can not be distinguished from people doing it themselves with their own minds through consciousness. The subconscious mind is capable of quite a bit, apparently. So I think you're on the right track to figuring this thing out with that explanation. Words like god are used, yes, but more importantly Brahman is more like impersonal, pure consciousness. When you hear about god in that context, it's consciousness they're referring to. Very different than the bible god. This primal consciousness, would technically be the god above and beyond the bible god. When dealing with group energy, it's unavoidable to take notice of the fact that it's a group "consciousness" energy we're looking at. So this chakra business is squarely concerned with experiencing levels of consciousness, and theistic thinkers refer to that as, "god." It sounds like you're naturally inclined to a spiritual attitude towards life and existence in general. I always have been too. Even though I don't believe in gods. It can remain in the absence of god belief.
  21. Joshpantera

    Death of parent

    My ex wife's grandmother did something similar. But she had her pastor grandson read it aloud at her service. A calling to everyone that left the church to come back, that she might see everyone at the second coming (SDA's believe that we remain dead and unconscious until the second coming and final judgement). He felt uncomfortable reading it, but said that he wanted to follow her wishes. Guess what? No one was moved to return back to the church who had already left it. She's gone. She's dead. No one was ever going to be reunited in a mythological heaven anyways, regardless of whether or not they do or do not rejoin the church. It's not different for you. She's gone. She doesn't know anything now. If she was suffering before and dwelling on it, at least she's not suffering or dwelling on it any longer. Letting the feelings pass through seems much healthier than holding on to them.
  22. Joshpantera

    Ex Christian Spirituality: The rough treatment

    Here's a link to Dean Radin's list of peer-reviewed journals for PSI phenomenon. All peer-reviewed articles are hot linked for anyone wishing to read through them: http://deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm If correct, obviously none of the this means the bible or christianity are true. I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea about that just because this content challenges the accepted status quo of mainstream science. Christianity gains no leg up because of any of it.
  23. Joshpantera

    Love Y'all

    Adios amigo....