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Everything posted by Joshpantera

  1. Notice how he avoided the cited article: https://interestingengineering.com/due-to-the-space-inside-atoms-you-are-mostly-made-up-of-empty-space
  2. A perceived void. Not a literal void. Did you read the link and it's content: And the truth is, we have no idea what space actually is in the full extent of knowing. We seem to have an immature understanding of space at this point, as a species. Our knowledge of the nature of space would rank as "inferior" in comparison to a more advanced species who may be much more mature in knowledge than we are and who would have a much deeper understanding of the nature of space than we do. Where maturity in this sense means a superior knowledge or understanding thereo
  3. I'm not picking on you with the above, because I don't believe in these christian standards for spiritual maturity. These guys are spiritually immature along side of any number much more developed people like Yogananda, or Watts, or Joseph Campbell. Especially the last two because they started out christian and then matured into much more well rounded spiritual minded authorities on human spirituality, for lack of a better term. Knowing how shallow the christian theology is in comparison. But as it stands, as long as you profess christianity you're subject to the bibli
  4. There are different ways of making this more concrete. One way is that we closely analyze space itself. The common medium of all existence as we understand it. Outer space is also inner space. It has an interconnecting factor that is something we can analyze. When I say that we are the fabric and structure of existence itself, that means space, matter, and any other contributing aspect of existence. These are the fabric's that make up the foundation of everything in existence. And we are something that exists. There is more volume of space per individual atom than particular matte
  5. Would you describe for me what it means to be spirituality immature versus spirituality mature in your own words?
  6. You seem to be between the two ends of the spectrum. Maybe you can elaborate on your encounter of what you believe I'm describing. I take it you mean the mystical realization which I've been discussing. You will have to tell me how I've failed with Oneness despite my pleadings. Just saying it doesn't get us anywhere. You have to make your claim demonstrable in some way. I've gone into graphic detail about interconnection and the unity of the totality. So claiming that I've failed will be hard claim for you to substantiate won't it? My outline, b
  7. My premise for one being superior to the other has been laid out. The literalistic can be eliminated as valid in most cases. We can keep it limited to one thing at a time. And this spiritual issue parallels my other Genesis 1 debate. If we have two people, let's say an SDA who believes that the world is 6 thousand years old and created literally in 6 days and someone like Origen of Alexandria the early church father who readily confessed that the literature isn't literal and explains the nonsense of taking it literally, and explains that spiritual language is symbolic and metaphori
  8. The very case and point of Alan Watts lecture on the "Real Gospel." Looking even closer, John is saying this: I (time) and the Father (eternity) are one! And works as: I (finite) and the Father (infinite) are one! The Kingdom of the Father (eternity) is spread upon the earth (time), but men do not see it. Yes. This gives depth to what I've lightly touched on in terms of the original mystical realization message being obscured. It seems to have begun with the Roman Catholic orthodoxy. I think it's pre
  9. God equates to the greater thing all around us in my view. The greater existence of everything. "I am that I am." The name of god tends to outline this. So I don't look at it as a literal being of some type, like a person out there who is bigger than we are. Being connected some person outside of space and time which looks like us but is simply bigger or super in comparison, really doesn't make sense. If we get away from the personal god idea and go back towards the impersonal concept of infinite and eternal existence as a beginning-less, endless, and timeless realm, w
  10. This is where the spiritual content of the bible is to be found, if anywhere at all. And like I said tonight, it's been purposely obscured by orthodox religious authorities. You can see where interpreters have tried to shift the meaning during interpretation. But they haven't eliminated the ability to find it. And Watt's picked up on that. The fact that the writer was paraphrasing Psalm 82 where it says, "Haven't I said you are gods," and then goes on to ask why they accuse him of blasphemy for saying that he is "a" son of god, goes to show how the context makes better sense trans
  11. I'm trying to figure out if we agree or disagree here. In the thinking I've laid out (citing Alan Watts on the real gospel) the christ myth is giving the mystical realization out to common people through the symbolism of the texts. It is about the human condition. People seek after their gods. But the god has been there all along, 'within them.' What the god represents as totality and absolute is what is 'within' them. In the Thomas gospel where it says, "...the kingdom of the Father is spread upon the earth but men do not see it!" In christianity as it's
  12. Yes, we can both do so in light of the mountain of knowledge that will be rising up during the exchange. The spiritual aspect of this learning for me was intense. I became caught up in what appears to be a synchronistic rabbit hole of connections, realizations, and experiences. It really took off when I decided to start reading up on pantheism. Both ancient and modern and the varieties that exist now today which are not theistic. All of this unfolded to me in no different a way than you would ascribe to being led by the holy spirit. It was exactly the same sort of happenstances an
  13. This is because what you think of as spiritual doesn't even really classify as spiritual to the people in the world on the right side of the scale I've mapped out. Literalistic thinkers ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Symbolic thinkers Mainstream christianity-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------eastern and western mysticism So this is the very heart of the issue and debate. These people who don't read their script
  14. The commonality is that your belief in god amounts to a belief in something greater than yourself. Do you believe you are a living soul? Is there any connection between the father, son, and holy spirit and a living soul? Anything going on there? Or nothing happening? No connections there to mention? We can stop wasting time there and move on if you'd prefer. And just continue making the points. Here's the situation. The biggest problem that I've found with christian spiritual ideas and claims is that they're indirect. Connections are there, as I've just mentioned, but
  15. This isn't our first rodeo. People often do the very same thing. Sometimes as a joke or gag to mess with friends. Sometimes seriously to play devil's advocate and see what happens to the christian arguments. Which is why the staff picked up on it early on. We just want to make sure that you are of sound mind, that you didn't go manic or split personality on us. You can play devil's advocate without the need of false pretenses. If deconversion is your real status and you really want to be part of this ex christian community. Here's the thing, I'm currently
  16. This can be done. Do you believe that the father, son, and holy spirit are greater than yourself? Do you believe that there's something more to being human than just sensory experience? And that the greater whole of heaven and such is divine in nature? This is set up in such a way that it literally applies to everyone involved. Including christians. If you answer "yes" to the three questions above then the universal definition of spirituality does apply to you. It dubs for naturalist's or supernaturalist's. Christians or spiritual mi
  17. The universal definition works as a natural definition. Do you mean a definition that a naturalist like myself can use? 1) There is something greater than myself, something more to being human than sensory experience... There is the whole, and it's existence itself. The totality. We can call it the universe and surrounding multiverse and infinite and eternal space. However we frame it, it's what is greater than our physical body and ego conscious experience. Our experience is that of a finite experience from the perspective of looking outward at existe
  18. I will address your question right after Walter's post. And start making my case from then on. Right now I will set forward a definition and get this moving. We need a universal type of definition of spirituality that encompasses the whole of human spiritual experience and capability. Some tend to take it further and deeper than others. And we can analyzes the varieties of what is considered, "spiritual," by various human beings. By summarizing something that applies to pretty much everyone involved. Christians are but one of many types of spiritual thinkers with defin
  19. @TheRedneckProfessor Before I go further, I will make my first call to @WalterP. Now that I have something of a committed answer, Walter would probably like the opportunity right now to respond to what he has been observing in the Eden thread previous to this debate. He shared some interesting facts with me that do pertain to "knowledge based" assessments of biblical spirituality and spiritual standards. Walter can step in for a moment and make his assessment of Egarcito's spiritual positioning with respect to the bible.
  20. So then you are the one who is non-committal in this instance? You won't commit to answering a simple yes or no question. I can proceed anyways, though. And I will. It is well known that christians believe the content of John 14:6, "No one goes to the Father but through me." And you either are or are not a christian who believes in the bible. Not excluding John 14:6. This is interpreted by just about everyone in christianity as saying that there's no way to god, or heaven if you will, except through jesus. And through jesus means through christianity which is the relig
  21. This forward sets the stage for the scholarship that is to come from Joseph Campbell. Right away, there is an evident distinction drawn between an historical-factual reading of religious literature versus what is considerably "spiritual." Or going beyond the mundane experiences of time and space. And opening up to the transcendent factor. As in, reading through religious literature and agreeing or believing that it's historical and factually true never begins to even touch on anything "spiritual." and "transcendent" as it were. There's nothing "spiritual" about reading a history b
  22. Thou Art That: transforming religious metaphor Editors forward XV "Many elements of the bible seem lifeless and unbelievable because they have been regarded as historical facts instead of metaphorical representations of spiritual realities. They have been applied in a concrete way to great figures, such as Moses and John the Baptist, as if they are real time accounts of their actions. That this heavy emphasis on the historical rather than spiritual should have continued into the 21st century illustrates the lag-time that the leaders of institutional religions have allow
  23. We can address christianity first. It doesn't have to be about you specifically. Do you believe that christianity is the superior, dominant, or true religion in the world? Yes or no? Previously you wrote this to me. Edarcito wrote: "Woke up to more of your shit today Josh ... and your ego as well. Let me put this very plainly that even you might understand. You failed spiritually with me through the post which angered me. This tells me that in all of your intellectual prowess, you don’t actually comprehend spiritual....i.e., you didn’t become like God
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