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DanForsman last won the day on May 15

DanForsman had the most liked content!

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About DanForsman

  • Rank
    Strong Minded

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  • Location
    San Francisco East Bay
  • Interests
    hiking/walking, vegan diet, smaller houses and less stuff, sustainable world population size, economy not built on growth
  • More About Me
    I am looking for something meaningful to focus on in retirement. I value independent thought and believe that world peace is an achievable goal.

Previous Fields

  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    No thanks; I have had enough now.

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  1. "The Old Testament is the original Hebrew Bible, the sacred scriptures of the Jewish faith, written at different times between about 1200 and 165 BC." So even christians can be confident that those with an ability to write and an interest in recording noteworthy events were on hand when the resurrection took place. Quote is from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/texts/bible.shtml Interestingly the same source says the new testament was written between 50 and 100 AD which would put a gap between Jesus's astonishing resurrection from the dead and the first extant recording of the event at at least 50 years. Shows us once again how much god has it out for those who only want to believe reasonable things.
  2. And to think that someone would come back to life after being killed in a public execution and then show themselves for inspection to either a handful of people or hundreds but no one bothers to write about this astounding feat for at least 30 years! Not even one historian other than the anonymous bible writers mentions Jesus coming back to life other than the highly suspect single probable three or four word forgery added to a Josephus historical record. So really nothing outside the bible which was not begun until decades after this astonishing event supposedly occurred.
  3. Interesting times with this coronavirus. Someone posts a 35 word question and receives many hundreds of words in responses.
  4. Weezer brings up a great point in that when you don't say too much people have a tendency to think that you are thinking along the same lines that they are. This translates into you often coming ahead when you simply stay away from giving unnecessary opinions that will too often alienate at least someone.
  5. This stuff is all such bullshit to me. The words that were put into Jesus's mouth regarding his second coming clearly state that some from his generation would still be alive when he returned to earth. Nothing in the bible makes a similarly clear reference to Jesus returning thousands of years in the future. It's a testament to human's ability to use cognitive dissonance to keep moving that time frame forward to whatever the present time is. In fact I think it is critical to making christianity work that the time frame always be at hand even though nothing in the bible makes a compelling case for this.
  6. Listen Simone, MOHO can be a bit hit or miss with advice sometimes (but always entertaining) however this is MOHO at his best and you can literally take his advice here all the way to the bank. I'm just a retired carpenter but spent many years close enough to management to have a pretty good idea how things operate. In terms of you being from a different country it is my long held belief that while customs can vary wildly from country to country people are essentially people so massive amounts of behavioral insights are nevertheless directly transferable. Throughout my working life I have had an effect on people and I always follow my own instincts so that translated into being noticed more than many employees. Oddly this often led to a roller coaster effect of office opinion thinking I was the greatest thing ever to office opinion thinking I was absolutely the worst employee they had and a half step away from being kicked out the door. I believe I know almost as much as anyone about working my way up from the bottom. In fact probably 25 or more years ago a foreman told me that he didn't know anyone better than me at falling into a bucket of shit and coming out smelling like a rose. Being on the bottom is an awesome position in many ways because for one there is almost no lower that you can sink and also almost certainly opinions have sunk unreasonably low. The biggest thing I learned is to keep my head up and my attitude up while being as kind and courteous as always and just allowing myself the mental space to ride the wave out. No matter how it feels you are almost always as valuable as you (realistically of course) believe you are. Even though everyone is making mental notes all day long on why you are worthless they nevertheless are keeping an eye on you. They want you to give in and become irritable towards you coworkers and discouraged by your shortcomings that are now front and center for all to see. Instead you want to bring out the kind self talk as never before. Focus heavily on what you do well and pat yourself on the back for each and every small success while encouraging yourself to commiserate with supervisors who have gone off the deep end with their low opinion of you and realize they are only people and that you will still need them on your side when things go back to a more normal level. Everyone will be watching you and just as surely as they could end up making you doubt yourself you can make them begin to doubt the extremely low opinion they have formed of you. In time others will make monumental mistakes that will take the focus off you and then just the fact that you are still there starts to make opinions of you rise. Then it will happen sometime as it always does that you are exactly the person that is needed to solve the problem that had been of great concern to your supervisor and possibly (if you're really lucky) was of concern to the entire office and then, bingo, there you go. On top again and more solidly than before! You'll feel like you're on top of the world and trust yourself seemingly forever. Honestly I've done a variation of this many many times over the years and I know it is very possible. Even giving the most sincere apology doesn't automatically give the recipient something to hold over you. Always treat yourself with kindness and praise yourself for doing the right thing even though it was very hard and almost as importantly try to understand how the person receiving your apology might feel and don't expect any certain response from them. If you can hold your self esteem in tact you can absolutely rise back up. Whether supervisors or coworkers we are all only people and no one is more valuable than the other. You can do this Simone. You've got MOHO (and lots of us) in your corner. You haven't made some horrible unforgivable mistake here so just don't ever allow yourself to think anything along those lines and just paddle your own boat and ride this bad time out.
  7. You know Simone the really important thing is that you figured out you were being tricked and manipulated and were able to get out. Congratulations and good for you! That christian community (cult) you were in used tried and proven mind control methods including guilt and fear to get you out there evangelizing. Getting free of that was no easy task and luckily for everyone you will meet going forward you are no longer recruiting for your cult. That method of recruiting is mostly always ineffective when used on relatively stable personalities meaning the coworkers you witnessed to were probably more anxious to get away from a crazy person than actually harmed by your conversion spiel. If you see someone you know you previously "witnessed" to I'm pretty sure they will be very happy to hear that you have since recognized that you were in a christian cult and are embarrassed that you had become a recruiter for them and that you are now apologetic for attempting to push your beliefs onto them and many others. I'm sorry this whole thing happened to you but you sound like a very kind sensitive person that your coworkers will be fortunate to be able to get to know and spend time with.
  8. I think in terms of expectations and focus on self fulfillment and the availability of an almost unlimited number of significant other relationships (internet, meetups, etc) and the large number and variety of life's work opportunities, that we are living in a time of social change unprecedented in history. Even fifty years ago was a significantly different time and a hundred years ago and beyond there is almost a total disconnect with the present. Not long ago a couple spent the bulk of their time trying to meet basic physical needs and stifling even significant emotional needs was common and typically even encouraged. Children were to be seen and not heard. Today middle class families have rearranged priorities to focus on their children and their children's emotional needs every bit as much as their physical needs. Today's youth from these families have been raised being told they are special with expectations that they will find their passion and achieve self fulfillment. Goals like these are much more complicated and confusing than making ends meet and I think typically take many more years to accomplish. Starting relationships early before either party has had sufficient time to discover themselves makes finding self fulfillment for either party much more difficult. So I think the most important goal should be to give yourself time, plenty of time, to find out who you are and what makes you happy and to try living purposefully and achieving some of your goals before trying to support another persons efforts to do the same things. Lives are longer now too so going slower makes a lot of sense.
  9. If it did come down to a number of christians against you I would suggest you not take the bait to give reasons why you no longer believe. The group dynamics of multiply people not understanding a word you're saying will be very frustrating, make you appear unreasonable and lead nowhere you want to go. If you point out flaws in their reasoning it will most likely put them on the defensive and emotions will rise and everyone (and/or anyone including you) might start saying things that are regrettable and potentially stick in loved ones minds for years. You don't owe anyone an ironclad reason for not believing. The point you can safely make is that you have spent many many hours considering your beliefs and have come to the conclusion that christianity just isn't true. You realize that that is a minority opinion in the US and in your family and you have no issue with anyone else believing the opposite of what you do. From your perspective you can either continue pretending to believe or be honest and open about christianity and the bible no longer representing your beliefs. You can tell them that if they sincerely want to understand why you came to the decision you have that our ExC site has hundreds of stories written by former christians that detail the many exact reasons they left the faith and also there are a good number of high quality books that are now available that detail particular concerns such as Dawkins, The God Delusion. In all likelihood you have already heard and considered everything they want to say to you and in all probability they have heard and considered the primary issues of concern regarding christianity. You hope that these differences of opinion won't destroy the wonderful loving relationships you've developed with each of you family members throughout the years. Those relationships are as precious and desirable and needed as ever and you hope they will continue indefinitely. You are not a different or more immoral person than you were before and you're sorry for the pain your disbelief has caused them. I'm sure I've written very similar advice here before but it is worth thinking about. You are the star because it is your mind they want to change. Don't let anyone take you where you don't want to go with the conversation. You can slow things down. Say you don't know, say you'll get back to them with that, say you'll need a few days to think about whatever it is. No matter if many people are on the opposite side you hold a lot of power to shape to course of the conversation. I'm glad you got out and are able to enjoy Sunday mornings like MOHO. It's your life and good for you on not allowing pushy cultists to dictate what you think. Welcome.
  10. You can post here or in Got Questions. We'll probably find you wherever you post on this site. Be sure and read A letter to my parents that TruthSeeker0 linked and then all the comments that follow. That will give you a good general idea on the thoughts we've developed on coming out to believing parents. For sure you should make every effort to put off telling your parents until you aren't in serious need of their help with say a place to live or with tuition or anything else along those lines.
  11. midniterider is right on. It seems to me that many who leave christianity hold a kind of sacred reverence for the church that is totally undeserved especially in the first few years. These fundamental churches operate a cult and you are the one who has lost years of clear thinking and self direction by getting sucked in. Anyhow it's fair under christian terms to be in a period of deep questioning. Please keep your job as long as it is helpful to you. You're doing a service to others stuck in the cult by being there and no longer accepting all the logic fallacies. You really can't tell how your family will handle your disbelief until it's out there. If or when your ready be sure to ask here or read up on the best way to approach this topic to give yourself the best chance to achieve the outcome you most want. It's a two sided thing and you have much more power to possibly influence the outcome than you think. Maybe it will be a disaster no matter what you do but there have been some surprisingly great outcomes we have seen on this site from time to time. You're doing the right thing for yourself by looking honestly at what you see around you and making you own decisions about what is true and what isn't. Be proud of yourself! The weight of taking responsibility for your own decisions seems heavy at first but that is a small price to pay in order to run your own life. This is the best part of your life coming up so keep trusting your ability to reason and keep listening to your inner self.
  12. Hi Blue. I really look forward to hearing from you again.
  13. LeiaBryant seems to recommend her new supernatural beliefs to those leaving Christianity here on this site so I can't imagine this group is going to be a neutral landing place with or without Christians making their evangelistic recommendations.
  14. Moving out will be challenging financially ZenP but it's probably the only way you will get some clarity in your life. The amount of emotional capital you invest in your family members seems to be too high. You need to shift your focus onto your own needs and generally get to know yourself better as a person who is separate from his family. You seem to be doing well with looking out for your future career wise and I think the paramedic goal is very good. It doesn't sound to me like you need to just disappear as opposed to openly planning your move and then just moving. If you get some physical distance once you find your own place I think you won't be troubled with excessive family involvement unless you pursue it. You may have more of a difficult time letting all that family attachment go than you imagine so you'll need to be deliberate in finding new ways to redirect all that energy in a positive way when you start living your own life away from home.
  15. I don't believe I quite catch your meaning here so I can't respond.
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