ironhorse

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ironhorse last won the day on September 13 2014

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About ironhorse

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    In a glass bottle of Cheerwine
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    life
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    faith, family, friends

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Yes, Jesus the visible image of the invisible God.

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  1. ironhorse

    Iron Horse-Michael C.

    I want to thank everyone here for the kind words about my father. If anyone knew how he was about discussing issues it was me, he was just as stubborn with me at times! This was a tough week for us but it ended beautifully with a wonderful service yesterday. I may come back and join in this group, just not sure if I have the time. I did want to leave something with you all so you could understand more about him than just being Iron Horse. He used to run a Saturday night coffee house in the early 90's called the Iron Horse that was a haven for teens, and there where no strict dos and don'ts except don't break the law! This place was for kids who liked music, often they would be smoking, cursing, acting crazy and my dad would be right there in the middle talking to them about life or religion. He just wanted a place to minister to people that didn't make them feel like they where a part of a strict religious organization. On sunday mornings is when he had church, and it was a little traditional in how it operated but that was on paper. He wanted a place where people could experience God's love in a non traditional church setting. It impacted many lives, never become extremely big but none the less it was a great ministry. I wanted to leave you with the eulogy that I wrote for my father, I know that he would have wanted me to leave this here because you guys where such a important part of his life in the latter years. Again thank you for the condolences. I want to thank everyone for the love, and grace and comfort that has been shown to us through this week, even those that couldn’t be here today. It’s a huge statement to the life of Michael when this many people have come to honor his life. He lived a wonderful life, he impacted so many people on so many different levels. There wasn’t anyone that he couldn’t relate with, talk to and just have good old-fashioned fellowship with. He lived everyday with love in his heart for his fellow man, with concern of their wellbeing. He contended for his faith, which was the cornerstone of his entire being and how he viewed this world. He desired for others to be able to know and experience the love, grace and mercy that came from his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He didn’t hold to a small view of God, or a view of God that we can put into a box. Nor did he approach sharing the Gospel in a way that isolated anyone, he was willing to go where they were to share this wonderful message. You could disagree with him but that didn’t change his view of you, he just wanted you to know what he knew and what he now sees. I know that my father would want me to share the Gospel in this moment. As we searched through his writings this week we came across the bulletin that we have for today and when I opened it I knew the scripture that I saw. Was the scripture that God had intended for me share in this moment just as my father did 26 years ago. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Matthew 22:37-40 This is who my Father was, He loved God with all his heart, his soul and his mind. He had a tremendous love for his neighbor, his fellow man, his fellow sojourner in this life. If my Father were here today, he would argue that even as good of a man he was, even as well he studied the scriptures, even as well as he lived out his Christian life and even as well as he treated his neighbor. He’s not the one you should follow, he’s not the one that you should imitate, his life isn’t the life you need to imitate. But there is one that you should follow, One who my father called Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. You must meet Him, you must make a choice about who He is. As C.S. Lewis famously asked. Is He Lord? Is He lunatic? Is He liar? If He is Lord, then it’s not even His life that you need to imitate, you must be willing to go further than just imitating Jesus Christ. You cannot read about His life and just start to imitate Jesus in your life. He must be found living in you and through you. You must be willing to follow Him, go where He is leading. When you meet Him and you accept Him as Lord, then truth enters into your life like nothing else you’ve experienced in this life. A change that is almost indescribable because it’s so foreign to human nature. When the Light enters darkness, it shows you a world that was virtually unknown to you previously. Truth reaches down, and your heart is flooded with a love that surpasses any experience of love you’ve ever known. A love that allows you to understand grace and forgiveness from a different perspective, allows you to cherish love, appreciate love and express love on a divine level. A love that is expressed by sacrificial actions towards the one who is receiving it. But to go beyond just doing what you want others to do to you. It’s giving the very best to the one who’s done their very worst to you and doing it because you love them. Truth reaches down and touches the soul that brings about a peace in the toughest of all moments. The souls of men are the most delicate of all God’s creation, in the blink of an eye, it will shatter. It can be destroyed from the outside just as quickly as it can be destroyed from the inside. Yet it’s truth that can overcome in those moments. It’s the truth that the same God who has created the soul and has the power to destroy both body and soul can grant everlasting life to a soul. No man can escape their own soul, we can try to run, hide, deny and even forget about our soul but no matter where we turn. It’s there in front of us, it’s the eternal shadow that we live with. Truth reaches down, and the mind is changed, it’s renewed, it’s no longer operating under the old debased way of thinking. It’s understanding of the world in which it is surrounded by comprehends everything through the lens of truth. The Bible, the greatest book in human history is the unending well of truth that men draw from. You do not just read it, you digest it and you live it. You don’t imitate it, you believe it. – the problem people have with God and the Bible is a matter of believing. Belief is the struggle of men, or it’s the unbelief that is the real struggle. No matter what side you are on, the struggle is hard for everyone. We struggle with what has happened to us, we struggle with what is about to happen us. But it’s in these tough moments of life like when we are faced with our own mortality that our belief or unbelief is put to the test. My father wrote down these words on June 19th, 1974 that I ask each of you to ponder. “Where we are now will determine the power of our faith.” Or to reword it slightly and challenge each of us today, “Where you are now will determine the power of your belief/unbelief” The sun once asked the moon “Why aren’t you like me – a light that brightens the world, a shining face in the sky – for all you are, only becomes lost in the darkness.” The moon never replied. When truth touches the heart, soul and mind of a man it allows him to become a light that brightens the world around him. It allows him to follow the pathway that has been lit by his Lord, the Light of the World. It’s a path that isn’t easy, has its setbacks, and moments of joy but when examined from the end and not the beginning anyone can see that it impacted and accomplished all that his Lord wanted. That short poem my father wrote in his journal in 1974 that causes us to examine our own lives, are we like the sun or are we like the moon, left with no reply? Only you can answer that. My father loved to write, and I have had the chance to read a lot of his stuff this week. And I thought to my self this week if my father had one more chance to pen just one more journal entry, I wonder what it would say?? Maybe it would sound a little like this…. Meanwhile back on the ranch…it’s hotter than pepper pie today but the kids have been good. The boys been going all over this mountain like a rolling stone. They’ve rolled, they’ve tumbled and cried a little bit been throwing knives into trees. The girls have been keeping them in line, but that’s just like a woman. God bless them pretty women, I’m sure glad they are mine. Their Nana must be real proud of these two dolls. Daniel snagged him a big bass, his uncle taught him well. Hopefully Ma will fry it up tonight for supper. He’s got a ball game tonight but if the fish are biting, I know he’s not going to want to leave. Later on I’m gonna let him go and hunt for a ground hog with the 410. Jackson had him a fish but it got away. Like his daddy he doesn’t have much patience for these fish. I told him that I had a good Three Stooges and Buster Keaton recorded we can watch later. Right now, he’s down in carpenters creek near honey suckle bridge, the water is wide at that part and he really gets into too much of nothing. Now the twins have been riding down the driveway like they are on Highway 61. The gravel road is bumpy, It’s a hard road to ride, and it’s ride boys ride. They really are the two Jokers in this deck. Sawyer, he got one over on me earlier in checkers. He’s tough on that board, glad we don’t gamble he would probably win the whole farm. When you play with Sawyer, you never really know whether he was bluffin’ or whether he was true. And he got the last cup of coffee this morning! Ben and I have been talking today, he asks a lot of tough questions for a kid his age, sometimes I just have to tell him “I don’t know”. I tell him that he is just going to have to figure that one out on his own. “Never stop asking questions”, that’s what I tell him it’s the best way to learn. My father held that view. Real education that is meaningful, and lasting is self-education and it continues through life. I’ve got to play him in checkers tonight also, so I had better be on my toes because I know he’s got trouble on his mind. Now for Leila, there’s just too many games to play, trees to climb, and butterflies to chase around here. She caught a grasshopper, she made it a home with an old mason jar, I hope it makes it till tomorrow because, tomorrow is a long time. She was dancing earlier lookin’ like a queen without a crown, to the ghost busters song. I was thinking, You angel you, You got me under your wing, The way you walk and the way you talk, I feel I could almost sing. Her daddy is working hard on that garden, sure hope the critters don’t wipe us out. He keeps the land tilled and he’ll work till the night falls across the valley. We need another good batch of beans to put up for the winter. Last years was the best I ever had. Rachael brought me my coffee this morning, she knows how I like it and she never messes it up. It’s simple, pour it from the pot to the cup, some say it’s watered down love. If this is love then gimme more, and more, and more. She’s a little upset with me because I hid her pacie, she started crying and I said Baby, please stop crying, You know, I know, the sun will always shine. She just looked up and then started to sing, the B I B L E is the book for me! And you know the sun has shined brightly so far and the Son will always shine. A hard-rain’s gonna come but that ain’t nothing this bunch can’t handle, cause there’s better days promised on the horizon. Spring is in the air, buckets of rain are on the way and we need it, there’s always new life after the rain. We will wake in the morning feeling wonderfully different. We will be alive and happy as a newborn calf in a field of clover. We will have a big silly grin that just won’t go away. But I like living where I can shiver and shake my way through a rough winter and then get a good dose of sunshine come spring. Just when you need it bad, you get it good! Well I’ve finished my last Cheerwine, and it’s time to go. I’m heading to my birthday party and I hear the master calling, ringing them bells where the four winds blow. Take my advice and cast your sail when the wind is sure, don’t look back, keep blowin in the wind and set sail for the place where we will be forever young. And Mama this one’s for you: (This is an original Poem by him, one of many) In the good old days I could dream away into your smiles, First thing in the mornings And then some after awhile Smiles, smiles Could make my heart run wild Making me act just like a little child. But today I see no smiles No smiles to warm my heart, And this child is crying to see you smile again. Smile again Mama.
  2. Thank you Jeff, I see you are from SC. We live in the upstate in Pickens, not sure if you are in the area.

     

    Thanks,

    Adam

  3. ironhorse

    Iron Horse-Michael C.

    Hello all, my name is Adam and the user known as Iron Horse is my father. His name was Michael and earlier today he lost his battle to a lung disease, Bronchiolitis. He's had this condition for almost 7 years and he developed pneumonia the past couple of weeks and today he left this earth. He was a great father and he was an even better grandfather to 6 grandkids. He will be missed by many and he loved many. I know that the folks here were a part of his life, and that he loved coming here and debating with you. We talked a lot about the discussions that took place here, so I know that he enjoyed his time here. I also know what it's like to be in a community like this, I am a member of a very similar board. I am a Christian also and know the way forums are. Even though people can disagree and even sometimes to the point that it gets a little nasty, we are all human and we all know that death can be difficult. But I also know that closure is good for the human soul, that's why I logged in to let you know that this will be one of the last post from Ironhorse. I will check through out the week but don't plan to come back much after that. You guys know he loved Dylan, so I will leave you with this.. How many roads must a man walk downBefore you call him a man?How many seas must a white dove sailBefore she sleeps in the sand?Yes, 'n' how many times must the cannon balls flyBefore they're forever banned?The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the windThe answer is blowin' in the wind He walked many roads, and consider him a wonderful man....
  4. ironhorse

    In your honest opinion

    So the bible is wrong either way. They tried to claim they were ignorant and unlearned when in fact they could read and write? So is the author of Acts out right lying when it said Peter and John were ignorant and unlearned? Context, context, context my friend. Acts 4 (KJV) 4 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, (Peter’s message) 13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. 14 And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.
  5. ironhorse

    In your honest opinion

    The fact about facts is sometimes you must read other facts to study and consider before you can make a factual conclusion. I’m posting text from a link and I posted five other links on this topic of languages in the 1st century. First, a little more about those "unlearned and ignorant" 1st century Jewish fishermen: On the other hand, the Bible expected the common people to be able to read and write. For example, when Moses led Israel out of Egypt, they were told to write the laws upon their door posts (Deuteronomy 6:6-9; 11:18-20). Isaiah predicted that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy the land to such a degree that a child could write the number of the trees left standing (Isaiah 10:19). This Scripture would make no sense at all unless children were customarily educated by either their parents (implying family literacy) or through an organized school presumably conducted through the Levitical ministry. Concerning the 1st century, one of the favorite sayings of Jesus in rebuttal to his accusers was: “Have you not read…” This not only implied literacy to his opponents, but also to himself and to his apostles whom he taught, for why would he use the phrase against his accusers, if they could turn around and cast his own words in his teeth to point out the illiteracy of his followers? Jesus’ parable of the unjust steward (Luke 16:6-7) implied literacy in the normal course of business in the Jewish society. This is also borne out in some archeological finds dating to the 12th century BCE where Israelite inscriptions are found on pottery and artifacts showing literacy was not exclusive to the elite.[3] Moreover, just before the Jewish revolt, the high priest Joshua ben Gamala (cir. 64 C.E.) declared that teachers would be appointed in every town of every province throughout Palestine. Their purpose was to provide an education for every male of the age of six or seven and upward. One teacher would serve a community of up to 25 students. A teacher’s assistant would be added for communities having up to 50 students and for communities having more than 50 students two teachers would be provided.[4] More>>> https://coffeehouseapologetics.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/were-most-ancient-jews-illiterate/ And more on Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic in the 1st century: http://orvillejenkins.com/reviews/stambaughntinsocialenvironment.html http://orvillejenkins.com/languages/josephusabominablegreek.html http://orvillejenkins.com/languages/hebrewfirstcentury.html http://orvillejenkins.com/languages/josephusandaramaic.html https://www.levitt.com/essays/language
  6. ironhorse

    In your honest opinion

    I disagree. It was written in the most common language of the time. A language that almost all could speak and understand, and many could also read and write: Koine Greek Classical Greek was used by the educated class, but Koine Greek was the language of the working man, the peasant, the vendor, and the housewife—there was nothing fancy about it. It was the vernacular, or vulgar language, of the day. Koine Greek was spread by the armies of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC. Much like English has become today, Koine Greek became the most common and pervasive “international language” of the day. Sounds like a smart move to me.
  7. ironhorse

    In your honest opinion

    So then what defines these "the scriptures" in the first place? The scriptures define themselves as God’s written word. Instead of dropping gold tablets from the sky, God chose to use humans in the process od revealing himself through the written word. This occurred over a long period of time. You've got a whole mess of "the scriptures" that the Jews don't use. The New Testament was written by Jews. Of course, within Judaism they are not used, but to Messianic Jews they are scripture. There's a whole mess of "the scriptures" that neither the Jews nor the xians use but did at one point (either one, the other or both groups). True, for example, Paul’s letters were not automatically viewed as scripture. The only scripture the early believers had on hand was what we now call the Old Testament. The Apostles did not leave a defined set of new scriptures; instead, the New Testament developed over time. There is a whole world of "the scriptures" in some format (ie. written, oral, etc.) that the neither the Jews nor xians will touch with a ten foot pole (and some of these they even "borrowed" for their own "the scriptures"). True, but these books were not found to meet the criteria as the various texts were chosen as authoritative. Also true, most Jews and Christians have dismissed many of them because they are way off in what they say when compared to other books in the Bible. Some others have some merit. In Bible versions many of these deuterocanonical books are retained as part of this tradition in a section called the "Apocrypha." Without knowing what a "the scriptures" actually is the term is kind of meaningless. You first have to have a book that is known to be a "the scripture" with which to compare otherwise you could never start the process in the first place. The very first book you had would be a non-starter. There would be no "the scripture" to compare to and therefore no way to ever know if this very first book could be considered a "the scripture." So you'll have to let me, us, know what defines "the scriptures" in the first place and how one would know? You know, the real ones from the fake ones? The word “scripture” simply means something written. And as I have repeated, whether you decided the Bible is the written message and word to mankind is up to you to decide.
  8. ironhorse

    In your honest opinion

    Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight. ~ Proverbs 3:5-6 (NIV) According to Proverbs 3:5-6 though, we can't lean on our own understanding. If you can't trust your own so-described 'faulty reasoning' then how do you know that your interpretation of doctrine is correct? To understand God, I cannot think what God should be like or what God should do. I cannot cherry pick the scriptures to make God conform to my ideas or inventions. I had to trust God. I trust God in what I can understand. I trust God in the scriptures and the mysteries, I do not understand. How do I know my interpretations correct? I try to follow the instructions given in the Bible. Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. ~ Acts 17:11 (NIV) Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. ~ 2 Timothy 2:15 (NIV) Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. ~ 1 John 4:1 (NIV) My decision to trust in Christ was not made in a bubble. I have decided from what I see and know of the universe is that it shouts of intelligent design. I believe there is a God. From my reading of other religions and atheism, I have decided the God and message presented in the scriptures is true. I would add that rejection of God and Bible is also not made in a bubble. The homepage of EX-christian.net has dozens of books, articles, and testimony claiming Christianity is false. Many people searching this site for answers will use these materials and comments like these to aide in their final decision. I have no problem with any person having open access to opposing views. Like I said, I need to read other viewpoints. As I have said before, in the end we must, weigh all this, and trust ourselves to make the correct decision.
  9. ironhorse

    In your honest opinion

    Absolutely, many make that claim. So, do you trust them or trust yourself to find out what is correct or false? I’m not pleading with anyone here to trust me. Our decision on these matters are our own.
  10. ironhorse

    In your honest opinion

    After searching many scriptures, I have determined the bible to be false. Since it is false it is not an authority. “I have determined…” is exactly what it boils down to. After reading, studying, and whatever processes we go through in search of the truth, it is each of us to deciding for ourselves. “I have determined” it is true. or “I have determined” it is false. We must decide what we read or hear is actually the truth. That’s it. We ultimately have to trust ourselves that our conclusion is the correct one. Bob Dylan wrote about this in his song “Trust Yourself”: Trust yourself Trust yourself to know the way that will prove true in the end Trust yourself Trust yourself to find the path where there is no if and when Don't trust me to show you the truth When the truth may be only ashes and dust If you need somebody you can trust, trust yourself.
  11. ironhorse

    In your honest opinion

    Sorry, I'm using word doc. and working with a big screen. Seems, it too late to edit. Should I repost?
  12. ironhorse

    In your honest opinion

    I've asked this so many times... I'll even refrain from my usual swearing and ad-hominem blasts, and I'll ask nicely: How are you (or how is anyone) qualified to dictate to anyone whether something is a "false teaching" or not? Concerning the scriptures, the scriptures warns of false teaching and tells us to search the scriptures to see if what they say is true. The scripture is the authority. So, I guess you could say exercising this skill of searching and studying the scriptures on these issues, qualifies a believer to make a judgement on teachings that do not align with scripture. What makes you an expert, and by which officially-recognized body of theologians have you been accredited? I’m not recognized by any body of theologians. Fortunately, the scriptures do not require me to get a doctorate degree or the receive the blessings of theologians or a religious institution. I have nothing against people attending a seminary, for example my brother has a doctorate degree from a seminary. Why is it that something which you call a "false" teaching is often a cornerstone of orthodoxy for some other Christian group? The cornerstone of the Christian faith is Christ. Jesus the Anointed. For it says in the words of the prophet Isaiah, See here—I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone, chosen and precious; ~ 1 Peter 2:6 Essential Doctrines of the Christian Faith In his book, “Unmasking the Cults” – which addresses cults of Christianity (as defined by theology), Dr. Alan W. Gomes writes: Central doctrines of the Christian faith are those doctrines that make the Christian faith Christian and not something else. The meaning of the expression "Christian faith" is not like a wax nose, which can be twisted to mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean. The Christian faith is a definite system of beliefs with definite content (Jude 3) Certain Christian doctrines constitute the core of the faith. Central doctrines include the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the bodily resurrection, the atoning work of Christ on the cross, and salvation by grace through faith. These doctrines so comprise the essence of the Christian faith that to remove any of them is to make the belief system non-Christian. Scripture teaches that the beliefs mentioned above are of central importance (e.g., Matt. 28:19; John 8:24; 1 Cor. 15; Eph. 2:8-10). Because these central doctrines define the character of Christianity, one cannot be saved and deny these. Central doctrines should not be confused with peripheral issues, about which Christians may legitimately disagree. Peripheral (i.e. non-essential) doctrines include such issues as the timing of the tribulation, the method of baptism, or the structure of church government. For example, one can be wrong about the identity of "the spirits in prison" 1 Peter 3:19) or about the timing of the rapture and still go to heaven, but one cannot deny salvation by grace or the deity of Christ (John 8:24) and be saved. All Christian denominations — whether Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant — agree on the essential core. The relatively minor disagreements between genuinely Christian denominations, then, cannot be used to argue that there is no objectively recognized core of fundamental doctrine which constitutes the Christian faith. – Source: Source: Alan Gomes, Cult: A Theological Definition Please tell us... I'm sure we here at Ex-C would LOVE to know for sure that we have a completely legitimate representative of Christianity as a contributing member here. It would help us understand things so much more clearly if we knew that one of the Christians here was recognized as an actual expert authority - someone who could speak definitively about matters of the Christian religion. I don’t consider myself an expert. I do not claim to KNOW EVERYTHING or UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING in the scriptures. During my time here, I have stated when I did not know what a verse meant. I do my best to note when my comments are my opinion and not something definitely taught in scripture.
  13. ironhorse

    In your honest opinion

    No, my hair is always in a mess. One thing though… I did not say abusive churches were the only reason, I said it was one of the reasons. I posted that first because I think it is one of the major reasons. The atrocities of false teachings and abusive churches (which cover dozens of issues) has harmed many people. I also said, I had more thoughts on the topic. I am aware there are other reasons.
  14. ironhorse

    In your honest opinion

    I think one of the reasons has to do with false teachings, abusive leaders and abusive churches. These have cause horrific trauma to those who have experienced it. I’m not going to berate people who flee these false presentations of the Christian faith. I also understand that one the purposes of the ex-Christian forums is to help people to tell their story and seek help. I have a few more thoughts, but I will wait and post when they apply to future comments.
  15. ironhorse

    True & False

    Yes I do. The verse you quoted shows that God allowed Paul to express his personal opinion. Not every verse in the scriptures is a direct quote from God. This is what I have been saying. It is all God-breathed. What is in the 66 books of the Bible is what God wanted in the scriptures.