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Ellinas last won the day on March 12 2017

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About Ellinas

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    Greek language; archaeology; books; musing about life, the universe and everything.
  • More About Me
    Former Christian, now (for want of a better description) Hellenic pagan; married into a fundamentalist Christian family, and increasingly fed up with being told what to believe.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Greek pantheon

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  1. Ellinas


    You may be correct and this will not change. Then again, had you asked me 25 or so years ago whether I would ever be anything other than a Christian, I would have reacted with at least equal doubt. "Never" is a word I try not to use these days. I didn't take it that way. Neither do I have any dealings with your deities, for that matter, but certainly I didn't think you were forbidding me to do so. I'm not sure that I would agree with your idea of deity and ancestry, but it's a perfectly valid approach, and, as it works for you, good luck with it. I rather suspect, however, that many of us are too much mongrels to be thinking about our "own people" with any great accuracy or coherence.
  2. Ellinas


    Beliefs evolve. What we are is built on what we have been. That's why I don't do regret, and why I expect not to be the same in the future as I am now - a process that will continue as long as I am here. Your myths and stories may change over time as well. After all, that was the basis, ultimately of leaving Christianity. I have come across pagans on other fora who have, over time, swapped one mythological basis for another - not often, but a lot less painfully than Christian deconversion, and generally as a part of an acknowledged development of belief structure.
  3. Ellinas

    Didn't see that one coming...

    I have no idea what she's been imbibing. The most I've done is exercised a lot of patience, made clear that I was prepared to think independently and let her find her own way. That's playing a long game, so to speak, but seems to have worked. Interestingly, she commented that she had come to think that being in the church had hampered her life.. That caused some amusement though, as she then said "I suppose I wouldn't have met you if I hadn't been in the church" - which rather begged the question as to whether she was categorizing me as a hindrance. A question that she answers only by giggling...!!!
  4. Ellinas

    Didn't see that one coming...

    Update... Mrs E met with a person from the church at c. 16:00 last Thursday in our front room. This was her choice. I made it clear I was not interested in such a discussion, so she arranged the meeting for whilst I was in work. They were still talking when I got home from work c. 17:30. However, in fairness to the fellow, he did not attempt to pressurise her and the conversation was simply around the various things that she found unacceptable, a number of which he agreed. Anyhow, it ended with him just saying "keep in touch" and "if you change your mind, let me know". On the whole, about as good as it was going to get. And he made no attempt to engage me in the conversation.
  5. Ellinas

    Trip to Rome

    Didn't visit this one as we ran out of time, but a colleague recommended it to me: http://www.rome-tours.com/sanclemente.php You will find that you "look down" on rather a lot - the sacred area, the fora (from road level - actually worth it for an overview before you go in), the innards of the Palatine, even beneath the arena level of the Colosseum. You can't necessarily get to all of it, but you need to be aware that a relatively (I use the word advisedly) modern looking place can hide stuff that you can peer at. For example, it was quite by accident that I noticed remains from the time of Domitian beneath the Piazza Navona - unfortunately too late in the visit to investigate further. By the way - some practical information. There's a public pay-to-use lavatory at the Spanish Steps. Generally, if you want the loo, buy a coffee in a cafe. However, once you are inside anything you pay to enter there are likely to be lavatories. One place where you can find a free lavatory is inside the monument to Vittorio Emanuele, otherwise known as the Altare della Patria. Up the steps, bear right, go inside and follow the signs. It's near to Trajan's Column - and far too large to miss.
  6. Ellinas

    Trip to Rome

    I'm not long back from 4 nights in Rome, with the specific intent of seeing the ancient bits as they are relevant to my son's degree course. We stayed in a hotel near the Spanish Steps, Bed & Breakfast. Be prepared for plenty of walking. There are buses and a metro, but you see a lot more navigating the streets on foot. However, the sheer amount of stuff you can see means you can walk 10+ miles a day, if my son's pedometer was accurate. Just doing the fora and Palatine is a good day's exercise in itself. If you are, or are with, anyone who is a student, make sure they have proof of their student status and course enrolment. That got my son into everything for free. There are combined tickets for the fora, the Palatine and the Colosseum, valid for 2 days. Precisely how much you get into depends on how much you spend - 18 euros for the full thing, c. 12 for a standard entry (you'll miss things like the house of Livia, the Palatine museum or the Temple of Romulus). Some parts are open alternate days, hence the 2 day tickets. Beware people in the street trying to sell you tat (roses at the Spanish Steps, if you have a female with you). I had no issue with pickpockets but I habitually wear cargo trousers with buttoned pockets. Food is reasonably cheap for a capital city if you stick to the smaller cafes and pizza houses. Three main courses with a bottle of Chianti came to 50 Euros. If you are doing B&B, fill up on breakfast, skip lunch and have a decent early evening meal. Roman traffic is terrifying. Vehicles are not obliged to stop at crossings unless controlled by lights - and even that is no guarantee. Be careful. September was humid with lots of biting insects. Take repellant and keep to long trousers. When it rains, it doesn't half rain. Keep a waterproof in a rucksack and be prepared to be accosted by people trying to peddle umbrellas. Look down. Some interesting remains are below street level. Check out the internet before you go - some underground remains are accessible if you know where to go.
  7. No, I don't understand that either. Not sure quite how, but, in one of my more idiotic errors, I've managed to omit two words thereby turning that part of my post into a prime example of my capacity to talk fluent bollocks. It was meant to read: "'I'd be inclined point blank to refuse to talk to any counselor who was not rigorously secular." i.e. only go to a counselor if she is prepared to visit the secular version. Hopefully this now makes sense. Sorry for the confusion.
  8. Just caught up with this (been away for a week). LB: Firstly, I am very sorry to hear of these difficulties. Secondly, you say your wife says she loves you but cannot say why. Well, maybe she genuinely cannot express that. Having an emotion and being able to analyse or describe it are not the same thing. May be worth taking her at face value on this. Thirdly, she is probably scared witless. Christianity is control freakery run mad - and the social pressure it exerts via the snide remark and sideways look is as impressive as it is horrendous. This is her way of life, and she will find it difficult to cope with anything that challenges that. Fourthly, I'd be inclined point blank to talk to any counselor who was not rigorously secular. Equally, I would consider encouraging her idea of a counselor if such an individual was in view. Fifthly, only you can decide where this takes you and how much patience you are prepared to exercise. Ultimately, you have to be free to live your own life.
  9. Ellinas


    On another forum my electronic signature is a quote from a Greek poem that translates as "Always keep Ithaca in your mind. Arrival there is your goal". The idea behind the poem generally is that it's the journey that matters, and upon which we should spend our time. Not being locked into one belief system, allowing yourself the freedom to question, challenge and change any orthodoxy (religious or secular) is all to the good. In that sense, may we never arrive.
  10. Ellinas

    Will I ever stop being angry?

    Actually, I'm not so sure that anger is a waste of time. It can be one hell of a motivator, a guardian against apathy. From where I stand, nothing wrong with anger - it's what you do with it that matters. I rather hope that I will always be more than just a touch narked by oppressive nature of Christianity - be it historical or current.
  11. Ellinas

    Is Christian debate dead?

    As long as people are not listening there will be something to say.
  12. I'm not going to criticize LB. His family will have a dynamic as individual as any other, and what is both possible and realistic will vary. Depending on how far this has gone and the mentality of those involved, overt intervention may even confirm his daughters in their positions. After all, Christianity has a way of defending itself via a fortress mentality. But, if it is realistically possible, Daffodil's approach is a good one. I have a son. We don't talk much about anything of a religious/spiritual nature these days. He was brought up going to church. He has listened to many a preacher (including his father on occasions). As my own position changed, I just let slip the odd comment about the rationality of the positions being taken. Apart from my wife once telling me that she was concerned by "snide comments", it never caused any great problem. Softly-softly... My son is now at university, never goes to church, and has no time for the nonsense. Provided LB's daughters are prepared to think for themselves, maybe just the odd comment, over time, will be all that is needed, and work better than a full frontal assault.
  13. Ellinas

    Didn't see that one coming...

    Moho - be my guest. Threads tend to be at their most useful when they are a bit frayed. Citsonga - I can't speak for Geezer, and his reasons for how he acts may be different to mine, but there is a difference between needing permission and not wanting to cause problems for someone else. MamaCaz - each to his own. You can only decide for yourself in your own particular circumstance what is the right course, given your own and your family's needs. As far as I'm concerned I did what needed to be done in my case. Admiration is for heroes, not for those of us who just act as circumstances dictate. What I'm trying to say is, do what you must - I'm no example for the realities of your world.
  14. Ellinas

    Didn't see that one coming...

    Geezer - I like the idea of you participating in a way that persuades your wife that it's best you were not there. Never quite mastered that. Though I did tell Mrs E that I would need an extra hour in bed on Sunday morning as I wouldn't get my snooze during the service. You never know - you might be lucky and she'll spring the same surprise on you as Mrs E did on me. Fuego - you are quite poetic at times!!!
  15. Ellinas

    Saying good bye to christain freinds.

    Your life, your boundaries. Christians operate by starting a conversation and controlling the agenda in order to create pressure. It's up to you whether to put yourself in a position where they have the opportunity so to do.