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Roz last won the day on August 9 2014

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About Roz

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    Anything and everything. If it's interesting I'll check it out.
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    Ex-7th Day Adventist. Once the main chuch pianist, now properly dis-fellowshipped. Still getting the 'come back to the fold, surrender to god!' messages from family and friends.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Metaphorical ham and cheese sandwich

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  1. And Vishnu bless this Den, for it's in this place that we see the true nature of christians come to light.
  2. Did you ever consider the reason we would want to treat each other with grace is specifically because of what you have just written? That in order to validate their existence and shortcomings (sin), that we can either write rules for everyone to follow...like the Old Testament, or we could practice grace and love through a relationship? Sound familiar dumbass? I've said it time and again, you're the shining paragon of your god. You're the one who most closely resembles his true nature. The god of both the old and new testaments (remember, revelation's in the NT...) is all apparent in your actions. Bravo. EDIT: Notice how he casually glosses over the many passages of this same god ordering genocide, child killings, child molestation, and slavery. It's the same deity that ordered that as the one who said the words in Jn. That's what the holy book of the christian says. This is christianity. They want to present themselves in a good light, so they point to the good bits of the bible and say "look, it has a connection with reality!" And then they completely passover (it fits here) the horrific bits, when it's their same god who also said those things.
  3. Why is it that the apologists for yaweh can't ever get their stories straight?

  4. We're all people, even ones with PHDs and/or MDs next to their name. We have a lot of limitations. If you really were a man who runs a lab, you'd know the scientific method is really just a method. However, it's you who came to this board professing your god. Your god who you professed is omnipotent. When humans aren't able to help you with your shit, it might well be that we're not able to. When your god isn't helping you despite you praying to him -and he's omnipotent-, then he's able to but just not willing. Which of the two is evil?
  5. A few more examples of how End's god establishes relationships between human beings: Thanks be to jeshitwa for giving his followers these words to follow: http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT) So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT) For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT) And my favorite one: The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
  6. End's god is good, and this is who he seeks for guidance, counsel, and emulates to the best of his ability.
  7. Yet still another example of how End's god establishes relationships for humans to follow: Rev 14 14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man[b] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. 17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.[c]
  8. Yet still another example of how End's god establishes relationships for humans to follow: Matt 10 34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— 36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c] 37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
  9. Since End clearly wants to use the bible to prove the bible's contents: Still another example of how (god instituted) relationships to work to benefit (god's chosen ones): Lev: 25 The Lord said to Moses at Mount Sinai, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
  10. Just on to make the point that whatever points of RO Wololo is claiming to adhere to does not fit with what RO actually stands for. The 2 videos I've linked has the major figures of RO explaining the 'myth of the secular.' We do not need any form of religion to influence any facet of government. While Wololo is on record that he's for separation of church and state RO (in the John Millbank video) does not. This is not a minor RO point but one of its core beliefs. Another of his points that strike me. Wol stated that for him, "His (jesus') divinity is certainly questionable." It's quite rare for someone to declare themselves christian and then doubt that jesus was ever divine (although on the other thread he did say that if he were born in the mid-east he'd probably be a muslim). I'm interested to know his reasoning on that point.
  11. And oh one last thing: "People do not die as martyrs for things they know are lies." Whether or not the martyrs took ideas as either truth or lies is not the issue. People die for many causes they believe to be true all the time. That has no weight or basis on the question: is the idea itself true or not? This is what we've been trying to explain to you for quite some time, but clearly it's taking a while to sink in.
  12. And this is particularly laughable: "What I'm not doing is throwing the Bible out the window because it was written by fallible men." No one here throws out any piece of religious text because we see them for what they are. Texts that humans wrote without any deity intervention needed at all. You're the only one here that keeps placing his own holy book in a pedestal. Here's where you begin to unravel: "Aesop's fables are very interesting. The difficulty with those is that they are not an attempt to simulate reality. They are merely stories where the author intended to convey a point, not write about actual events." You clearly cannot clear your own christian indoctrination from your brain enough to even fathom the bible as being nothing more than fables. Why? Because in your mind fables "are merely stories where the author intended to convey a point, not write about actual events." You mentioned that you take Matthew as a more reliable historian. Do you believe what he (the author of Matthew) penned down for jesus' resurrection? Do you believe that was a historical event? You still want to believe that the bible, your own holy texts, were written by people describing real events. Are you willing to state for the record that when Mohammed wrote of how Gabriel came to him, that THAT was also a historical event?
  13. All those sentences and sentence fragments just to basically say: "I'm a deist that still clings to the name of christianity." I'm wondering why you call yourself a christian at all? You like some of jesus' object lessons, but you don't believe 100% that he was the jewish god's son. You don't take the bible as the word of god at all. And yet this: "The Bible has done its job very well. It has set the groundwork for my principles and morality. It has convinced me of my problems (that are many), and provided a potential solution...which I have found to be quite effective." It really does sound like you're a deist still having trouble letting go of your childhood religion. You reject much of the claims of divine miracles such as the flood, YEC, the highly improbable Luke 2, etc. But yet you would like to hang onto the good teachings that the bible has. I'll tell you this. I'm an atheist, I reject all the god hypotheses presented to me thus far. But the Koran, the Hadith, the bible, a little bit of what I know regarding the vedas, and every other 'spiritual' and religious text I've read had some good bits in it. In some ways, they undoubtedly helped shape my morality. But yet you still identify as a christian. Is that out of cultural / childhood upbringing? And regarding RO, I would take what this guy is saying over what you say RO is. What you've been describing as RO doesn't sound close to what this guy and the 'father of RO John Millbank' is saying.
  14. "If you've studied Islam, then can you name some points as to why you rejected the religion." Saying that you are presently studying Islam is only a partial answer.
  15. To IH, here Matt is proposing another purpose as to why your god created the banana. It fits, so it must be true.
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