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About Ginko12

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    Engineering, history, music
  • More About Me
    First a baptist, then Orthodox, now nothing

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?

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  1. I read this yesterday and wasn't sure what I could say. That's awful. I'm giving you a web hug. What a stupid thing to break up a couple that is too passionate for one another... It reeks of jealousy to me. Then again, so many of the rules pertaining to sexuality reek of jealousy...
  2. Personally, the idea that Hitler and Pol Pot and Jeffrey Dahmer are just gone is more comforting to me than the idea that they are still hanging around somewhere in a giant furnace. I agree with what others have said above, particularly that justice is not something that has its own existence, but rather is a human concept. Also that God is more like a judge who lets you off the hook if you vote for him and punishes you if you don't. Lots of Christians believe Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven because he "accepted Christ" in prison, but good atheists go to hell. How is that justice?
  3. Heh, Mr. Nice Guy just said some not-so-nice things to me in a private message, and elsewhere took a nasty and completely gratuitous swipe at trans* people. This is really eye-opening, and not in a good way. On the other hand, I did have some phone conversations yesterday that were very respectful and went very well. Those were the people I thought were important enough to me to speak to them individually about this, so at least they seem to feel the same way about me.
  4. A FB thread can be deleted easy enough. :-) HAHA, yes it can. Already done this morning, though I'm sure within a week or two everyone I know will have heard about it. There's a couple people who are Christians and like to forward Religious Right crap to my email... After blasting one of them back once or twice I just put them on auto-filter to the trash can. :-) This was actually forwarded to everyone in the parish at the request of the priest. I can't say it's normal to get politically charged or controversial emails over the parish mailing list. Usually that is reserved for, "Remember we have a service for some holiday at such and such time, and don't forget to bring something to the potluck this Sunday." Not sure how much longer I'll be on that list either!
  5. Don't be embarrassed about expressing your thoughts and feelings -- you didn't do it to attack anyone or hurt anyone. You have nothing to be forgiven for. You don't have "fences to mend" -- if the relationships were disrupted, it was due to no fault of your own, it's just a feature of the religion. Do not suppose that Christianity brings peace to the earth. It does not exist to bring peace, but a sword. It exists to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw. Christianity would have it that a woman's enemies would be the members of her own household. Very true, very true.
  6. A FB thread can be deleted easy enough. :-) HAHA, yes it can. Already done this morning, though I'm sure within a week or two everyone I know will have heard about it.
  7. OP, it sounds like you've already made some good progress. Just take it one step at a time. Once you feel good about one step, you'll know you're ready for the next one. I went through this before deconversion because I liberalized tremendously before deconverting, and having someone else who grew up sexually repressed going through it with me really helped. Maybe you would feel more comfortable in your first relationship with someone else who grew up repressed by religion but who is ready to leave that behind. Also, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do/aren't ready to do. Just because you no longer believe it is morally wrong doesn't mean you have to be personally comfortable with it yet, or ever.
  8. Well I'm not worried about the "intervention" stuff that was focused on getting me to keep believing. However, I had been planning on talking to some people face to face or on the phone, and various random things kept screwing up that plan for the last couple weeks. I feel bad that I broke the "news" to them on Facebook. It was irresponsible and disrespectful of me. I actually hate Facebook with a burning passion, but among the people I know, if it didn't happen on Facebook, it didn't happen. I've tried to leave that horrible place twice, but I was completely out of the loop. I've accepted it as a necessary evil, and normally I don't even post there much, I don't know what came over me yesterday.
  9. Ugh, I feel so ashamed of myself. I'm coming out of a very conservative form of Christianity (Orthodoxy). There used to be a lot of talk about how the culture war issues just don't plague this church; there's no arguments about women's roles, homosexuality, etc. I think that was only because for awhile the church was mostly filled with immigrants, because the more Americans convert, and the more the children and grandchildren of immigrants Americanize, the more these questions start to show up. There was an argument going on the past week or two about a parish being welcoming to gays and lesbians. My husband first told me about it. Then yesterday I got an email "my" parish priest wanted forwarded to everyone in the parish. It was a link to this incredibly judgmental, unkindly worded statement by a bunch of clergy about how terrible homosexuality is, and how intolerable it is to wonder if maybe there's nothing wrong with homosexuality. To me it read, "If you don't hate gay people, get out of this religion." I was incensed. I have always tried to keep out of the political fights in my church because they just piss me off. Hard to stay out of it when it shows up in everybody's inbox. I think, "Well, I already had one foot out the door, now they're pushing the rest of me out. So I guess this parting ways is mutual." I let my anger and frustration get the best of me and I posted something to that effect on Facebook. One guy from my old parish, who is nice and I like him a lot, responded. At one point he said something about how without Christ, he couldn't make himself better. That just touched me off even more, and I started saying how Christ was never there for me, in all the moments that I screamed out for him to help me, please! Nothing. So of course practically every Christian I know sees this and thinks I'm going down the tubes, and my life is horrible because God won't respond to me, and blah blah blah, even though I'm describing a way I felt 2-3 years ago. It's like an intervention on my FB page. And I'm trying to explain, look, I'm not in this much pain now, I'm actually happy now, and I'm not angry at God anymore, I just don't feel like there's anybody there. And by the way, everything else about my life is awesome now, here's a list. But everyone just keeps focusing on me feeling tortured by God giving me the silent treatment. And how about those friends and family I mentioned that helped me out? Didn't God put them in my path? Well, I suppose it's possible, but I see no compelling reason to believe that. Anyway, I woke up this morning embarrassed about the whole thing. This was not how I wanted to handle it and I let myself get irritated into doing something stupid. I know the feeling will pass and people who really care about me will forgive me. But in the meantime I have some fences to mend.
  10. "I have nothing to prove and everything to discover." What a fantastic attitude! Good luck, and thank you for sharing.
  11. Thanks everyone. I did speak to my husband the other day. I was honest, and I got him to agree to 1. Keep it entirely to himself, which I'm sure he would have done anyway, as he is very discreet, and 2. Not to bother me about fessing up to the priest. I told him I would, I just needed to do it in my time. Which unfortunately means I'm still faking for the church audience. BUT I have decided I care a bit less what they think after this morning, when two of them were trying to convince me to abuse (my choice of word) my children to force them to be quiet and still for 2 hours straight every Sunday morning. That was an eye-opening conversation.
  12. Thrive, you sound like a very strong person and I am impressed at your positive outlook after all you have been through. That "helpmeet" stuff is rough, isn't it? Ever since I was a kid I had people telling me I wasn't feminine enough, and I was too opinionated, and I was never going to get a man, so I went through a phase of trying to overcompensate for that myself. I was Eastern Orthodox and I felt like all the "good Christian women" covered their heads and stayed home and homeschooled their children... trying to be that way made me feel like I was dying inside, and not in a "good" way, like, "My old, bad self is dying and being replaced by a new, Jesus-loving me!" I was just... shrinking. I've never read any of the Pearls' books but I have read some of their online content. They are some pretty weird, scary people!
  13. Thanks you guys for commenting. Sorry I haven't been back in awhile, you wouldn't believe how busy I am right now. I'm one month into a 4-month period of working, going to school, and parenting. I swore I would never try to do all three at once, but here I am... Only 3 more months... Cousin Ricky: Me too, I hate faking anything, but especially enthusiasm. I have felt the exact same way though, as far as God being interested in other people, but not in me. Interesting about the boring Catholic masses being an Irish-American thing. I have never heard that before. bfuddled: You’re probably right! And many other people here too seemed to *want* to believe, but were unable in the end. It's interesting to me that some of us were able to "have faith" for awhile, but eventually it all came crashing down. How long can a person suspend disbelief? Apparently in some cases, for years! Bluechipx: Thanks. I’m not really very smart. I do very dumb things daily. Be nice to the poor Christians, remember you used to be one of them! Thinker: Thanks, I’ll check that out when my husband isn’t in the same room as me. Ellinas: Thanks! That means a lot… and it makes me feel terrible about my current fakery! BrotherJosh: Lol, I got a good laugh out of that! themonkeyman: I think Cousin Ricky answered your question… I just meant I didn’t know the Bible stories everyone else knew (and they couldn’t believe I didn’t know them). You’re right that whenever any part of our lives is going badly, it’s supposedly our own fault, but when things are going well, it’s supposedly God’s love and grace and we don’t deserve it. It’s a pretty messed up way of looking at life.
  14. Margee, I read your "Please Forgive Me" letter the other day and it gave me the courage to post. Thanks so much for sharing. Fuego, that's exactly what I worry about, having nothing else keeping us together. I'm really terrible with making female friends. I work with a bunch of guys, I went to college with tons of guys, etc. When we were baptist I never fit in with the women there. They were like damsels waiting to be swept off their feet by prince seminarian charming. The women I am friends with now are smart, inquisitive, don't mind that I'm a weirdo nerd, etc. I've never had another group of friends quite like them, and I don't want to risk losing them. I certainly don't think they would reject me, but of course I assume we would drift apart, and that makes me sad. Orbit, yeah, I don't know how long I can do it either. I doubt keeping it a secret from my husband will last a long time. When I finally spill the beans to him, he'll say, "You really shouldn't be taking communion right now," and I'll say, "Yeah, you're right," and then the whole process will start. I don't want to "fake" it forever, I just don't feel like I'm quite ready to tell everybody. I REALLY do not feel ready to see/hear the disappointment from my godchildren's parents. Thanks to you all for reading and responding. Just being able to vent to somebody is helping, and your responses are very reassuring.
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