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Everything posted by Daffodil

  1. Daffodil

    To Come Out, Or Not To Come Out

    CO, thanks for the warnings. I lay awake the other night unable to sleep and mentally composed exactly what I would say on Facebook, getting more and more determined as I lay there. I decided I would check with my husband in the morning first before proceeding. Of course, in the light of a new day I thought better of the whole thing and decided not to do it. I just really hate keeping this big secret!
  2. You love him. You know that it will change things between you. Kids never want to disappoint their parents even if they know they'll still be loved. Give yourself a break. You opened some doors that he wasn't ready for and he had a knee-jerk reaction. Hopefully he'll be more open next time to at least listen without jumping all over you. I'm impressed you went as far as you did! Kudos!
  3. Daffodil

    Trouble With Liberal Christians

    One thing I have to give evangelicals credit for: they generally take the words of the bible at face value. Obviously not all the time, but compared to liberal mainline types who barely even touch their bibles, that's at least a little more honest. I was raised liberal mainline (I'm actually a PK!), but became an evangelical in college. The amount of intellectual gymnastics the liberals have to do to discredit what the bible does clearly say about homosexuality, child sacrifice, warmongering, etc. while still believing in the god of that bible is staggering. It's just a metaphor, it's not meant to be taken literally, that was a long time ago, they didn't know what we know now, yada yada yada. I almost think they would be easier to debate, but I'm no where near knowledgable enough to do it myself, yet.
  4. Daffodil

    To Come Out, Or Not To Come Out

    Wow, I'm so proud of you! I am so tempted to just get on with it and spill it on Facebook, but I'm just not sure if it's a good idea yet. Like you, I am also further along in deconversion than my husband. He is firmly agnostic, keeping open for the possibility of God being real. I, on the other hand, am just completely done. I have not wavered or gone back and forth or anything, and I think because of that, I just want to be done with the secrecy as well. Kudos to you for your bravery!
  5. Daffodil

    It's A "relationship"

    Great, now I want to briefly place my hand on the shoulder of people who are looking at religious pamphlets as I pass by them... I hope you're happy. LOL! You are one twisted dude! Wouldn't that be a great "candid camera" moment? It would. And it might be more effective with a plant to distract them a little bit... I think I've put way more thought into this than I should have. I was going to add whispering in their ear. Maybe we should both stop!
  6. Daffodil

    It's A "relationship"

    Great, now I want to briefly place my hand on the shoulder of people who are looking at religious pamphlets as I pass by them... I hope you're happy. LOL! You are one twisted dude! Wouldn't that be a great "candid camera" moment?
  7. Daffodil

    It's A "relationship"

    SCM - one of the things that kept me in so long was a "touch". When I was in college one year, I was trying to decide how to spend my summer. I was looking at various pamphlets on Christian summer ministries and when I got to one, I swear I felt a hand rest on my shoulder and sensed that Jesus was leaning over me to point at that brochure. For years when people talked about God or Jesus speaking to them or communicating with them in some way, I always thought, "Yup! I know he's real because I felt him." That was very early in my "relationship" with Jesus and for the next 25 years he never "touched" me or spoke or answered in any way again. I have no idea what I experienced that day in college, but it must have been wishful thinking or something. What a waste!
  8. Daffodil

    Just Poured My Heart Out On Facebook

    So sorry to hear all these stories of mental illness and bullying. Mental illness is a bitch. Why can't other human beings just leave the "unusual" ones alone! I was also "unusual", suffered (and still suffer, though meds are working great right now) depression and acute shyness. I spent my high school years buried in books (mostly science fiction and fantasy) but did have a few friends. Hugs to you all!
  9. How did you find out she was cutting? If your daughter told you or you noticed scars on the girl, you could share your concern with her mom. Even if her mom doesn't respond well, it could accomplish two things: 1) It could show her that her daughter's issues are visible to others (Christians stuck in the "perfection dream" hate having others know they are not perfect). It might get her to try a little harder to help her daughter. Also, is it possible she doesn't know her daughter is cutting? That could be a wake-up call to her. 2) It could help her to see that an atheist does actually care and can show concern. It could be the beginning of her preconceived notions about atheists softening. If you do this and she responds poorly, you can rest in the knowledge you did your best to help. Of course you don't have to do anything, as a previous poster said, if it would not be good for your own situation. Just a thought.
  10. Daffodil

    The Re-Election Of David Cameron

    I feel you. Last fall Kansas re-elected a Catholic governor who spends all our state's money fighting abortion and gay rights rather than on education and services to "his" people. I am at a loss as to how stupid people can be!
  11. Daffodil

    What Is Love

    Forgot to mention that I think for marriage, or any "love" relationship, to work in the long run, you have to genuinely LIKE the person. No sexual relationship is hot and steamy and "chemical" all the time. I think the reason some people keep hopping from relationship to relationship is because they really believe that "in love" feeling is supposed to be constant. Maybe they're addicted to that particular chemical reaction. I don't know. Anyway, I genuinely enjoy my husband's company with or without sex. He is my best friend, closest confidante, most trusted ally, etc. He is always in my corner and I in his. I would guess that not everyone needs or wants that kind of connection, but we do and it works for us.
  12. Daffodil

    What Is Love

    I don't really know how "love" works, and I don't really care. If you've never had it, I'm so sorry. I wish for you to experience it someday, even if it is just a chemical reaction. I can tell you how I see marriage, though. After 22 years, most of which was as Christians, we are still very contentedly married. I agree with Dragon (wow, you are remarkably wise for your age!) that it is something beyond a chemical reaction, because there have been MANY times the "chemical reaction" failed and we just had to look at each other and make a decision. You could say that it was our Christian programming that kept us together during those times, but we are no longer Christians and I don't think I would choose any differently now. To me, our wedding was our time to say in front of everyone we knew and loved that, "I choose you. From all the other humans I could be with, I choose you." And every morning we wake up is another chance to say, "I choose you." I've wondered before if I would marry again if something happened to my husband, and I really don't know. I think it would have to be something both of us felt really strongly about, but I'm not sure it's necessary now. I definitely don't see myself ever having an "open" relationship, though. It just seems entirely too complicated for my minimalist/simple living leanings.
  13. This is for parents. My kids are 9 and almost 11. My husband and I are out to each other, but to no one else yet. I have started to "forget" to pray with the kids at night when I tuck them in. Most of the time they don't notice, but sometimes they call me on it and I have to follow the script for them. We haven't gone to church since early December and they are ok with that because they were never that in to church anyway, but the indoctrination they had already received is still active in them. We have already begun to change how we talk about our beliefs. For instance, we have told them that many people believe that the bible is the true word of God and that the stories really happened, but that we believe they are just stories written to help people understand nature and how to live. We then go on to ask them if they really believe that Noah got two of every animal on a boat, etc. and while my 11-yr-old daughter always says no, my son says he does believe. He has also told us he wants to be baptized. I handled that one by telling him he needs to wait a few years to be sure of it. Anyway, my husband and I differ on how to handle this whole mess. He thinks that we should continue to go to church so that the kids can have that foundation which they can then decide what to do with when they are older (he's also concerned about the fact that we would lose all our social contacts if we completely quit church). I think that's a terrible idea because we will have to keep fighting the indoctrination, especially with my son. On the other hand, I don't think we should completely blow their minds by laying it all out for them in one fell swoop. So, my question is how others have handled this. I have read some of GodlessinDixie's blog posts about his situation and that has helped, but I'd love to hear other's stories as well. Thanks in advance!
  14. Daffodil

    How/when To Break It To Kids

    BURNY - ugh! I know you're right. I just sat across from my sister-in-law yesterday and let slip that we hadn't been to church for months. She looked at me funny, repeated what I said as a question, then went on with what she had been saying. I looked at her as she spoke, imagining telling her the truth and my heart just sank. I love her, my brother and their kids so much! Maybe I'm letting others' stories on here scare me too much. Maybe they would not react as badly as all that. You're right about lying to friends and such. This isn't going to be easy.
  15. Hi Becks! I haven't been here long, but this is an amazing group of people and you will be treated with love, concern, respect, and most importantly, truth. Oddly, one thing that helped me was realizing how small and inconsequential I am. No one knew me or cared about me before I was born, no one on the other side of the world knows about or cares about me, few will remember me after I am gone. I am just one of billions of people who existed, exist, and will exist. So, why put so much pressure on myself to find/have a purpose? Why not just love and be loved and try to make life better for those I have influence over for as long as I live? I hope that doesn't make it worse for you, that's just what worked for me.
  16. Daffodil

    How/when To Break It To Kids

    BURNY - It's interesting. Even as a Christian I tried to never lie to my kids. I told them from the start that Santa, the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, etc. were not real, but were just fun ways to celebrate holidays. They accepted the Santa and Easter bunny stuff but actually argued with me over the tooth fairy! You are all right. It would be withholding the truth to not tell them what our beliefs currently are and why we are reluctant to go to church. I guess part of my fears (besides the fact that the cat will be out of the bag in no time) is knowing they will probably end up having arguments with their friends, possibly losing some friends, have to deal with proselytizers, possibly have problems with their beloved cousins, who knows! I'll share what you all have said here with hubby and see what he says. I think he's more concerned with the social aspect of losing church, so maybe he'll agree with me on spilling the beans. Will keep you all posted!
  17. Daffodil

    Catholic-Run Hospitals

    Awhile back I read about Catholic-run hospitals spreading across the country. They didn't necessarily identify as catholic, so you didn't always know what they were. The article talked about the potential problems with this, such as end-of-life situations where the person and his/her loved ones did not want any efforts made to prolong their life when there was no hope. Of course, Catholicism would never allow feeding tubes to be removed or life support turned off regardless of the family's and patient's wishes. This was just one of the issues that could come up in a hospital like this. The author ended by encouraging people to be careful what hospital they end up in! Well, I remember thinking, "Thank goodness the only hospital in our (65,000 population) town is not religiously affiliated!" Guess what I saw in our newspaper the other day. Via Christi has purchased (or taken over or whatever they do) the only hospital we have! Just the name itself indicated what I feared! So I looked it up. Yup, Via Christi is catholic-run. The next closest major hospitals are about 45 minutes away and now I'm wondering who runs those! Even before de-converting I didn't want to ever by kept on a ventilator if there was no hope for me. I also want the right to end my life if there's no hope. Anyone else have this happen in their community? Any stories of catholic hospitals interfering in the care of their patients?
  18. Daffodil

    How/when To Break It To Kids

    Thank you so much, everyone, for responding-those who are parents as well as those not. Gives me a lot to think about. I realized as I was reading through these that there is something else at play here. My hubby and I have not come out to anyone yet. Knowing how terrible kids are at discretion, it will only be a matter of time before they "out" us first! My brother and sister-in-law are my biggest concern there. They have four home-schooled kids and we are their godparents. I really don't know how strongly they would react, but I could imagine them deciding to find new godparents! MYMISTAKE - I agree that time and distance may help with my son. The baptism thing is actually from his idolized older cousin who got baptized last summer. THEOUTSIDER - We always try to ask questions that make them think. TRUEFREEDOM - The problem is, we don't necessarily agree, and we're both trying to figure this new "normal" out for ourselves. FTNZ & EUGENE39 - thanks for the boom recommendation. I'll check into it! FLORDUH - yup, I see! GRAPHICSGUY - that's my husband's take on it. I'm not worried about my daughter because from a young age she has told me that she just can't decide if she believes in God or not because she can't see or hear him (That's my girl!), but my son is much more trusting and gullible. We already have had to re-educate them on things we disagreed with even before we deconverted and have always encouraged their fascination with dinosaurs. Also, the church we most recently attended regularly was much more open-minded spiritually. They basically don't take a stand on evolution or gays or any of the "hot" topics, preferring to let individuals decide for themselves. Because of that, I have a little less fear about the influence there, but it seems a bit dishonest to take them somewhere I don't believe in. LEO - I was also a closet doubter for most of my life. I realized very early on that asking the wrong questions just did not go over well. I just kept pushing the doubts to the back of my mind. The creepiest form of brainwashing I've seen is AWANA. My kids were only in it for one year and I will never let them set foot in a program like that again. Hey, let's encourage kids to memorize scripture using competition, candy, stickers, badges, and games, and never talk about what any of the verses actually mean! NEVER again! I'm definitely leaning toward spilling it to my kids and just see what happens. It will certainly lead to an interesting discussions!
  19. Daffodil

    Catholic-Run Hospitals

    Older - Yes, that's the article I read! Thanks for finding that. I couldn't remember where I'd read it. After rereading it, I'm even more disturbed because of the incredible amount of government funding they are getting. That alone should preclude them from being able to inflict their beliefs on care!
  20. Daffodil

    Catholic-Run Hospitals

    SCM - I would think you or a loved one would have to ask for a priest. And I don't think they give last rites to non-Catholics anyway. I could be wrong, though.
  21. Daffodil

    Catholic-Run Hospitals

    Citsonga- I Love that idea! I bet they would change their tune fast, too! Buffetphan- That's rediculous. That also reminds of the article's other example. I was unaware of this, but apparently there is a medication that can be given to a woman with an ectopic pregnancy that will dissolve it without the need for surgery and maintaining the woman's future fertility. A catholic hospital did not notify patients that this was an option at another hospital, because they see it as an abortion medication. They instead told them that the only option was to surgically remove the affected Fallopian tube. So, the patient would undergo unnecessary, expensive, risky surgery that would still end the pregnancy! Call me crazy, but isn't that still a form of abortion?! Ellinas- some are private and some are public. There's good and bad to this as I'm sure there is with the NHS as well. Reprobate- that is surprising! You should be worried. They are apparently quietly buying up hospitals all over the country.
  22. Mine actually changed from conservative to liberal BEFORE I deconverted, and that was one of the things that influenced it.
  23. Daffodil

    My False Comfort When Unsure Is Gone.

    Oh my do I know what you mean! When my daughter can't sleep because she had a nightmare. When my husband is having difficulties at work. When a family member is experiencing a health crisis. All of these were met with prayer and I would feel a sense of peace that I had done what I could. Though I agree with EyesOpened that prayer can be a cop-out, these are instances that I couldn't really do anything but listen. I did feel very helpless and it's going to take some getting used to. I do agree, though, that when there is something that we can do, we should. I'm going to have to be so much bolder than I ever was as a believer, and that is a little scary!
  24. Daffodil

    Tweaks You Made That Aided Your Recovery

    Interesting question! I look forward to reading what others have done. For me, and these changes occurred over two or three years: 1) Finally telling my doc (after 10 years - why oh why is it so difficult to talk to docs!?), that Zoloft made me feel dead emotionally. Not only did I not feel depressed, I didn't feel happy, sad, mad, anything! Switched me to Lexapro and I feel normal again! 2) Wouldn't apply to you, wyson, but to any females reading, got off birth control. It's amazing what messing with your hormones can do to your brain! 3) Cleaned up my diet. Got rid of as many processed foods as I could, eliminated wheat, soy, anything made from corn, etc. Now try to eat natural whole foods, grass fed meats, etc. Just recently gave up caffeine. 4) Stopped saying yes to things I really didn't want to do but felt obligated/pressured to do 5) Finally gave up on religion! I'm working on the sleep issue, giving up sugar (the only part of my diet overhaul that I have trouble with), and getting regular exercise. If I can get those things down, I'll be the healthiest I've ever been physically and mentally!
  25. Daffodil

    Book Reccomendations?

    Trying to finish Why I Believed by Kenneth Daniels right now. As much of an intellectual as I like to think I am, some of his stuff goes over my head, so be prepared! He's very thorough and thought provoking.