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bunzooh last won the day on September 2 2015

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About bunzooh

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    Slick City, UT
  • Interests
    Christianity, world religions, new age spirituality, reading, music, writing/journaling, TV, Movies, walking, yoga, zentangle. Quantum stuff is fascinating. Vegan/vegetarianism. Dancing (as in shaking my booty with or without a dance partner)
  • More About Me
    I grew up in Salt Lake City, UT, an Episcopalian amongst Mormons. In my early 20's I became charismatic/fundamentalist, a real Bible thumper. Now, more than 30 years later, I am questioning the Bible, having discovered some discrepancies and flaws, some on my own, some through internet research.

    I have four children, and two grandkids. Two cats. A "significant other."

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Not sure. Still seeking

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  1. well, the neuron thing isn't as important to me as the fact that I already do "imagine" a god that I'm connected to. McHargue doesn't consider religion dangerous or bad, or at any rate, people who are in religions who want to do well because they believe in god. anyway, I'm finding some use in it. I'm lonesome without god.
  2. Hi This is my first post in this forum, though I've read here a little bit. Just got the book Finding God in the Waves by Mike McHargue, who left evangelicalism for atheism, then regained a belief in God and considers himself a follower of Jesus, though not an evangelical. I haven't finished reading it yet, but there is a useful exercise he describes that I realize, I'm sort of already doing. Because the brains of believers show an emotional (not rational) connection during brain scans, when they think about God...that is, the prefrontal cortex isn't as active as the limbic system or other areas of the brain...and atheists' brains don't light up when they are asked to think about God, because their brains don't have neuron connections similar to what believers' brains do. Well, the author advises doubters to imagine the god they can accept, and meditate or pray with that God in mind, in order to keep those "god neurons" active and connected. Reading this, it hit me...I've been imagining and sometimes feeling connected to, a creator who infuses all the universe, sort of saturating everything like a wetlands meadow would be...when you step, your footprint fills with water, because all of it is saturated with some underground spring or something. I believe god exists, but I find I can't trust god. However, maybe I can feel more peaceful about things if I imagine god as an energy that fills everything completely full. ??? anyway. Searching for a way to think about consciousness, eternity, an afterlife. heh. a "forelife" here in this physical existence.
  3. Heh, I used to be able to brush off bible BS as "well, biased translators" or "Clerical error" but when I looked at my life (though no one died, but I was ill for a year, one illness or calamity after another) and compared my life, at a time when i was actively pursuing god and wanting to be near him more than anything, to the promises and found that, yes, indeed, "the pestilence" does "enter the tent" of "those who dwell in the shadow of the almighty"...yeah, even the promises are bunk.
  4. that's it...the Matrix. at least you're not trying to discern god's will from the random synchronicities,...though didn't it feel safe, "knowing God was arranging all the details"? I miss that *sigh*
  5. But why not help LGBTQ kids? It's a thought you've had, does it have to be guidance from outside you? We do have interests and passions...why not follow them? I'm not an atheist so I think the Creator, the Spiritual, may be behind your inclinations. But it doesn't have to be anyone outside of you suggesting it...If you feel like you want to help them...DO IT. or, that urge to volunteer with teens aside...why not pay attention to these little synchronicities? Jung has some to say about that...I think it is a very real way of "something/someone" (maybe yourself) letting you know a direction to approach.
  6. I remember a similar story where a waitress was left no tip, instead a note saying "we don't tip gays" or something. It went viral and said waitress had a fund me drive and everything...and it turns out SHE WAS LYING. The people in question left her a generous tip. So...why should we believe this one? Hmmm? If I'm gonna be skeptical about Xtianity, then I'm going to be skeptical about EVERYTHING. Also, on reading this account (which DAYUM that poor girl...jeez, what is WRONG with people) but what makes anyone think that group were Christian? Because they were dressed in their Sunday best? and they mentioned hell? hm...that could be legit. Still...question everything.
  7. Isn't it funny, but I'm the opposite...at any rate, right now I am. As a Xtian, I didn't have any fear at all. I rejoiced and believed that God had me, and wouldn't let me go no matter what. That he would always guide me and love me, and even if I sinned, I just turned to him and he forgave and drew me to him. Now, as a doubter, I have this nagging fear "what if the fundies are right? What if hell awaits the apostate? what if god/Jesus, as described in the bible REALLY IS the only hope of being saved from eternal torment?" and so I live in a constant state of questioning and wondering, not at peace at all. I was much happier as a believing, trusting, non-questioning Xtian.
  8. Klym, in fact, I am forever indebted to the UU church, because they have a LGBT youth group in the town where I used to live...which was available to my daughter as she was struggling so hard to realize she is gay...her Xtian youth group was not supporting her (They didn't kick her out or anything, but her orientation was simply beyond them...she could not be who she was and they didn't understand or try to help her pain) I watched her go from dark and scary "down"...weepy, non communicative, unhappy...to bright and responsive, excited about life, and powerful. Thanks to "Outreach" which is NOT SOMETHING any evangelical church would sponsor, that's for sure. Maybe I'll find something along those lines. I also know of a homeless service, full plates of hot breakfast every Sunday morning. I could get behind that. It is a xtian group,. but not preachy. It isn't a pew sitting, lean back and listen, then coffee and treats and visiting and see you next Sunday thing, but very other oriented. Practical assistance to needy people.
  9. The questions that Xtians can answer aren't what threw me off the bible. It was those that put xtians into that "deer in the headlights" mode. And sadly, there are as many of those as there are of the variety they "can" answer. The little details, such as whether Judas hanged himself OR fell and his guts gushed out? pfft. big deal. That one still doesn't bother me. It's a legit argument, that two different authors would include different details. Two biographies of Abraham Lincoln will have differences in detail. If we have four different accounts of the life and teachings of a man in ancient times, of course there will be differences in detail. Big woop. And if you believe in the sovereignty of god, it's no big deal AT ALL to give the writers the recall needed to accurately record the words of Jesus even centuries later. The thing that really torques my beans is the absolute refusal of conservative xtians to even touch upon things like higher criticism. To be honest, I think the whole JPED theory of biblical documents answers SO many questions (in the OT...not sure about the NT) But if you attend a conservative bible school, that will not even be mentioned. And it's a shame, because it leaves Xtians utterly incapable of answering questions. They are making themselves STUPID. I'm the one in BS (Bible Study) who asked the questions that left leaders going *bbbbbdbdbbbdppbbddp* or saying "that isn't the focus of this study" or some other lame ass baloney. Pisses me off. I KNOW I am intelligent, but for 30 years this stuff was completely invisible to me. It wasn't in my world at ALL...and now I'm standing here, the rug yanked out from under me, pretty much reeling. And I was never a super duper literalist, either. What a biblical literalist might go thru, if/when these realizations hit them. Dammit. Christianity YOU FAIL!
  10. Thing is, this is a question that Xtians can answer. They have "all the answers" Right? But I bet they can't say when the name YWH was revealed to mankind. Check it out. (possibly my favorite contradiction, to be frank) In Exodus, Moses sees the burning bush, right? It is here that God gives him the task of liberating the people Israel, and Moses asks "Who shall I tell them sent me?" and God says "Tell them YWH sent you"...that's in like Exodus 4. In Exodus 6, we have YWH telling Moses "I am the god of Abe, Ike, and Jake, and they knew me but I never revealed my name to them" (Ex 6:2-3)...but wait a minute... Read Genesis 4:26 "From that time forward, men began to call on the name of the LORD" Is that spelled with all caps? Do tell. And what does that signify? Oh...wherever you see LORD in all caps, that's the name of God? Really. So tell me again, WHEN did God reveal his name to people? At the burning bush, or right after the murder of Abel and Cain's consequences? Not only that, but there are lots of times in the book of Genesis where Abe, Ike, and Jake (and possibly Joe?) DID mention "the name of the LORD"... THAT, my friends, is the kind of question that Xtians cannot answer. I found it on Contradictions in the Bible http://contradictionsinthebible.com One of my best tools in this baffling leg of my journey.
  11. Just out of curiosity, not only Mythra, but others who are responding in this thread...didn't any of you ever hear that answer? The one about the holy spirit giving the ability to recall everything Jesus said, and that's how we know it is accurate...because the HS told them what he said? Because that IS the answer that Xtians give, isn't it? When someone says "well, they weren't sitting there taking notes while he spoke" isn't that the standard reply? "well, see here?? Jesus *said* the HS would give them perfect recall"...Am i the only one who ever heard (or used) that? I mean, this is ex-Christians, right? that is, at some point in your life, you WERE a Xtian? Surely in your believing days you argued FOR the stories in the bible, right? Surely you used to lean heavily on the bible for all your answers? you believed it deeply and read it, quoted it, believed what the preachers said...? Anyway, like I said...just curiosity. if you haven't found my story on the ex-timony forum, just let me tell you I consider the bible pretty much bunk. I just know what Xtians say when confronted by certain questions. The story of how Judas died..."well he hung himself and then after he rotted, the branch broke and he fell down and hit guts busted open" ...right? anyone hear that one? Sorry if I come across confrontative. It just piqued my interest...these questions have been around for a long time. Christians have been "answering" them for a long time. Surely we, as such, had opportunity to answer them. Right?
  12. This is apologetics 101. One of the first "bible answers" i learned. apologetics 101 seems to gloss over the fact that whoever wrote the gospel according to John could not have been the disciple John..Unless he learned fluent Greek and became an accomplished theologian and wrote the book when he was about 110 years old. But, i know - i know - it's right there in writing - IN THE BIBLE - the gospel according to JOHN. the term gospel truth is an oxymoron. I want to make sure I have your question right: How is it possible for the exact words of Jesus to have been accurately recorded in John 14-17 when he was praying alone with the 12, who were illiterate fishermen? Is that the question? because the answer that is always given by xtians is found in John 14:26. "The holy spirit whom the father will give you in my name, will teach you all things and will bring to your remembrance all that I have told you"... I gave you the apologetics answer: Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would give his followers perfect recall of everything he said. Can you see how perfect it is? There's no answer for that one, because it was the Spirit...aka God himself...who told the author of the gospel of John EXACTLY what Jesus said. How can anyone argue with that? Even if John was written 100 years later...perfect recall is nothing to the creator of all, who holds all things together by his word. Right? Apologetics 101. And what I mean by that is... Xtians always have an answer, and it is ALWAYS in the Bible.
  13. Yet another example of how impossible it really is to get a true meaning of anything in the bible. All of it was written originally in languages now dead, and even scholars in those languages have the burden of getting them translated accurately into languages lay people can read. In the article, when the LXX was used by NT authors in quoting OT...and the Hebrew being so different from the Greek...it's been this way since forever hasn't it. Way to go, YWH. way to make your intentions and desires known and SO CLEAR to us.
  14. Oh, easy! and in fact, the answer is right there in the section of the bible you mention. John 14;26...Jesus tells the disciples... "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." They didn't sit there and transcribe every word as he spoke...the Holy Spirit gave them the ability to remember every word. This is apologetics 101. One of the first "bible answers" i learned.
  15. Yes, the thought of an infant's soul being sent to hell is incomprehensible. I think another problem with this viewpoint is what happened to free will? An infant that dies was never self-aware as a human. So when did the infant make a free will decision to not believe in Jesus? That's just it...in this line of thinking, free will is so damaged by the Fall that human beings are incapable of choosing God, so He does all the choosing. That's what is meant by "the elect" (those whom God chooses to be with him in eternity) and by "foreknowledge" (God knows his people from before the dawn of time...e.g. before the creation of anything, and before the Fall, God has already chosen who will be his.) It is not of man's will, but God's. THAT is almost a direct quote (don't ask me the exact passage, but it is there.) Yeah...that's Calvinism in a nutshell. God knows and foreordains who is in AS WELL AS who is out, and an infant who is the child of a non-Xtian household is NOT IN.
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