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Lyra last won the day on April 13 2019

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?

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  1. This series is amazing! Enjoy! (I didn't make it or anything, just found it.)
  2. He existed by God's holy spirit in invisible ghost form, and then flowed into Mary's womb with no human father or scientific process. It was God's magic.
  3. I'm into other girls, and the "you'll go to hell" stuff messed me up with REALLY BAD anxiety as a kid. I shouldn't have had to spend ages 10-13 paranoid about going to hell as if I had secretly murdered someone. Religion sucks.
  4. Throughout the Bible, the Christian God's motivation has always been his own huge ego. In the Old Testament, entire cities and civilizations (full of plenty of innocent people too) got ravaged and burned to the ground because they "displeased Him." In the Abraham/Isaac story, he gives a kid PTSD by having his dad almost murder him, then says "nevermind, I just wanted to test your obedience," and it's seen as some kind of benevolent and loving sacrifice. If a parent made their kid kill a pet to test their obedience to the parents, people would be making reports, because that's ABUSE! Later, in the New Testament, God's "Good News" and "loving sacrifice to save us from hell" consists of believing that His son is Himself, because if you don't have that much blind faith, then He won't forgive you for all the "evil" you've done by being a normal, flawed, ordinary person not perfect enough for Him. (I'm capitalizing Him because that's how narcissistic abusers see themselves -- superior to everyone else.) And if you commit the grave sin of not being perfect enough for Him, which no one is, then you're deemed evil trash worthy of eternal torment. Like, he can't just be benevolent by deciding to forgive, or judging based on more sensible factors (like whether or not you're hurting other people). No, you have to believe that he is the son of himself, and that if you believe that then he'll spare you from the eternal hell that he created, and if you follow his dictatorship accordingly then his mercy makes you a hero. This is some Stockholm Syndrome shit right there. And then, when we have world problems even today, like starving kids in Africa and human trafficking victims in Thailand and people who spend their lives since birth in prison camps in North Korea, people defend it with things like: "God is just using them to highlight His glory, since it gives His followers a chance to help them and set an example!" What kind of person would allow horrible, long-term torture and suffering of millions of innocent people, just to prove a point that's ultimately about glorifying their own ego? What kind of person hurts others to make themselves look good? A narcissistic abusive asshole, that's what kind. Please debate.
  5. End3, 1. Why would a perfect, just, all-good God allow a person to be born in a North Korea prison camp, live their whole life there and die there, without knowing anything other than depravity and torture at the Auschwitz level, because their grandparents rebelled against the government? 2. Even if we were to accept that the horribly deformed baby posted by BornAgainAtheist was the result of sin (assuming perhaps that the parents' "sin" led to it), why would an all-just and all-good perfect God make the innocent baby forced to live the life of nothing but suffering, instead of punishing the parent who sinned? Children are not just objects/extensions of their parents; they are sentient people of their own, so why would punishing a baby for the parents' sin be the action of a god worthy of worship? People here have circled around the 10 commandments and petty definitions, but little has been said about these core issues. Thanks, Lyra
  6. Remember that many of them are also conditioned to believe that dying for faith, if necessary, is the right thing to do.
  7. In the Bible, as I recall, God is the one commanding all the disasters and mass deaths (deaths of all the first-born innocent baby boys in Egypt, flood of Noah's ark, etc. etc.) But what does Satan actually do that's anywhere near that catastrophic? For example, here are some of Satan's main scenes: - Tempting Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden (to eat fruit/get knowledge/have sex? Who really cares? It's not like he's telling them to slaughter the animals or kill each other) - Tempting Job to not have faith in God, after God is the one to destroy his life and kill his presumably-innocent wife and kids - Temping Jesus in the desert (whereas God is the one who requires this awful bloody sacrifice of an innocent in order to satisfy his bloodlust for other people's punishment) Please tell me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, there was no Bible story where Satan actually inflicted murder, torture, rape, slavery, etc. on anyone. The God/Yahweh character was doing those things, and the "worst" thing Satan did was try to get people to question authority. Even his supposed start, getting kicked out of Heaven for rebellion against God, could be seen as healthy free-thinking and benevolent protest. This would be like if your teenage kid mouthed off to you and snuck out to party, and in response you banished them from the family forever and had them exiled from town and gave them a reputation as the most horrible person in the world. Remind me again what exactly makes Satan a horrible, fearsome villain?
  8. In Christianity, when people have terrible traumas/tragedies in life, it's generally compared to Job and accompanied by statements like "God is making things harder for you now but they will be so much better later." Examples cited are often things like...you lose your job but it leads to a better one, or there's a family tragedy but then it brings the whole extended family together, or you come from an abusive childhood but then are inspired to a career of helping others, and so on. But in those examples, there's typically the assumption that the people involved are able to someday have mostly good lives despite the pain: living in a wealthy free country, having decent health (or a handicap they can still live happy lives with), having opportunity to move forward, etc. But what about the people who are truly born into terrible, hellish lives? For instance: people in North Korea who spend their entire lives in Auschwitz-like prison camps because their grandparent rebelled against the government. Or the victims of human trafficking all over the world. Or the Untouchable castes in India where someone is socially ostracized and forced to work jobs like cleaning inside the sewers, with little to no hope of escaping that fate. Or the starving kids in 3rd-world countries with horrible deformities and no resources to cure them, etc. We always hear of inspirational stories of people who came from awful backgrounds of hardship, and it's wonderful that those people could overcome it. But many can't. And for the ones that will never have a chance or who will never find comfort or happiness, why would an "all good God" sentence some people to being born into lives that are worse than having never been born?
  9. Given the pros and cons of the internet, would we think that the sharing of information, the normalization of humanity, would enable us to see the evidence that religion isn't real?
  10. Lyra

    Ask a Christian

    Why have no Christians responded to my thread with my questions asking for answers from Christians?
  11. Lyra

    Ask a Christian

    Could you take a shot at the questions in the thread I started the other day?
  12. The premise of orthodox Christianity is boiled down to the following points: 1) that we are all destined -- and fully deserve -- to roast in Hell for all eternity, because in the eyes of a "all good and perfect" Creator, telling small lies or stealing a candy bar is just as bad as killing millions of people and therefore we're doomed just by being alive; (In some denominations, this goes even further by saying that the reason why we're all evil is because two people ate a magic apple, and now their genetic sin is our problem) 2) That somehow the above scenario is justified because "God is so perfect that even a small sin is infinite," and although he lacks common sense and compassion he is somehow still perfect and to be worshipped; 3) that the ONE and ONLY way to avoid our fully-deserved fate of Hell is to believe in a story written in an ancient book 2,000+ years ago, and to fully believe that the supernatural and bizarre events described (God came down as a person, was born to a virgin, sacrificed himself for a blood sacrifice that's never explained why it's needed, he rose from the dead, etc) are actually real. 4) That God's sacrificing his son was a benevolent thing to do. Think about it -- if your neighbor committed a horrible crime and was going to prison, and the only way to bail him out was to have your own son crucified, would you do that to your child to pay for someone else's problems? Any decent parent and person would say hell no!! How can you take this seriously? First off, points 1 and 2 and 4 show how morally wrong the whole premise is, and how unethical and evil this religion's portrayal of God is. And point 3 is basically saying that the way to be saved in the afterlife is to believe an unbelievable story - like trying to force yourself to believe in Santa Claus, or the Tooth Fairy, long after you've hit the age of critical reason (around age 7) where those types of childhood magic characters are no longer believable. When I was 7, I grew out of believing in Santa. I wanted to believe, but I simply couldn't buy it anymore. So if an adult has this reaction to the Bible story, they deserve hell, and this lines up with a benevolent God? Please explain how this is: 1) Ethical, in way that lines up with God being the all-good and all-loving being he's claimed to be and 2) Logical/rational as something that is likely to be real
  13. Does anyone know of good books, or other types of stories that could promote philosophical discussion (like movies, shows or story-rich video games) that could plant seeds of doubt to get someone to start questioning their religion? I don't mean books like "The God Delusion" or "Why Religion is False" that are so obvious they'd make any believer refuse to crack the cover. I mean ones where the message is subtle enough that they'll read it, but will get them on that logical path. For example, George Orwell's "1984," or any other story about totalitarian mind-control government, like "The Matrix." You could read/watch it together, start off a discussion about governments who brainwash their people, and then transition into "But what if this applied to religion too?"
  14. Hey y'all, thank you for responding. Sorry it took me so long to write back. Faithfulless, what you said was especially spot-on. I write novels and also volunteer on an anti-abuse hotline because I identify with that drive to make an impact on the world. I guess it's common for that to go hand-in-hand with anxiety. I hung out with my aunt last weekend. It was fun and cool and she didn't say a word about the dryer, probably because she doesn't give a shit about that conflict anymore. My parents mailed me a children's Bible coloring book for my 25th birthday. Isn't that strange? I have no problem with gifts that aren't the best fit, and I was able to say thank you and be polite (like i would if it was a sweater I didn't like or something). But even being Christian, who sends a kid's coloring book to a 25 y-o-?? I haven't lived with them since 17 when I finished high school, and I've been financially independent since I landed my first job at graduation time. Definitely not a kid by any stretch. I like art, but a children's Bible coloring book? Does anyone else find that supremely weird? I'm not sure what to think it means. Also, during a phone conversation with my dad, he asked if I'd found a church yet in my new city. I said "I'm going to a Unitarian church that I like a lot and have made great friends at," which is true (I'm not religious but I do believe in spirituality and a higher-power, just not Biblegod), and he just said "Find a good Baptist church" as if he didn't give a shit about what I'd just said. This kind of thing drives me fucking NUTS. I wish they would just accept that it's my life, and stop trying to force their religion down my throats. Those examples aren't relevant to the anxiety, in that they don't make me feel anxious. They just make me feel annoyed. I'm very emotionally distant from my parents because of this type of stuff - I feel like they aren't genuinely interested in knowing me as a person, and instead just want to mold me into what they think I should be. I do have other family and friends who I feel like I can be myself around, though.
  15. Thank you so much for your responses. I'm feeling much better now. I do totally realize that I probably have anxiety, and agree that therapy would help.
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