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LogicalFallacy last won the day on August 2

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About LogicalFallacy

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    New Zealand
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    Fishing, camping, gardening, politics, social dynamics, science, philosophy, astronomy. A special interest in mythology and ancient history (Both ancient humans and ancient earth)
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    You can find out more by chatting on our discord channel. Link below

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    A transcendent, immaterial, invisible Pink Unicorn

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  1. LogicalFallacy

    Ex Christian Spirituality: The rough treatment

    Because it works, and it works reliably for our world. Newtonian Physics needed updating but it still works fine in our every day life. Drop a stone and it will fall 100% of the time. Cast a spell or pray and ehhh you are at about 50/50... so just random chance of the thing occurring. I think there is weird unexplained stuff that happens, like premonitions and dreams of the future that come to pass eerily accurate to the dream, but the evidence is that this is more a function of our minds subconscious than woo. From what I can gather you treat woo as I do the force or playing skyrim. I'll still occasionally try and pull an object to me, but there's no real expectation that the laws of physics will suddenly alter for me. I do it for a bit of fun. I wouldn't say any of those things are reality numbing short of if you decide to drown your problems in alcohol. The rest of the things are entertainment so I'm not getting the connection between them and spirituality? However some people take their woo very seriously to the point they really think there is something to it. And there might be, but no one has demonstrated that yet. My eyes are closed... I am feeling the woo... my head is sinking.... oh shit I'm tired and falling asleep Ha that is the Assassins creed. Lets say you cast said spell once a week for a month and you did see said pink roller skates, how do you determine if its your spell having an effect on reality, or just random occurrence of seeing someone wearing a popular item in a popular colour, or as a result of heightened awareness. Its like you always remember seeing see the make of your car during a trip more than other cars. If the above is the criteria for determine spell efficiency then biblical prophesy has you guys beat! However doing this could be fun... might give it a shot.
  2. LogicalFallacy

    Ex Christian Spirituality: The rough treatment

    Alright you bunch of magical woo people, you are in the lions den now! No safe spaces, bring your claws and Armour or get out! Nah, just joking, I love ya'll even if I don't understand you. So leading with JP's last question: Is there a pressing issue (i.e. problem)? No, and I don't think anyone particularly thinks its a problem. I read about a bunch of witches casting a hex on Kavenaugh. I also read Christians were sending the spirit of Christ of combat it. I had a good laugh - it's all a bunch of hokus pokus. My only concern was that people may now view atheists in the same camp as those witches which makes conversing difficult. But overall I don't give a shit that some witch is placing some hex on someone. There is no evidence that it will do anything - well nothing more that the spirit of Christ does. So (Bear with me, its 11pm, I've had a bad day and I've been thinking about this all day so stream of consciousness coming) I have no problems with people who use the word spiritual to mean something like finding a deep meaning in something, or along those lines. I possibly get a bit like this when out in nature - a deep reverence, wonderment etc. Where I guess I don't understand the other mindset is where people have an understanding of spiritual as if it affects or is part of reality. Verbosity was talking about nature magic, and ok I'm not entirely sure what shes meaning when talking about magic, but she did use the phrase to the effect that it must be magic or spiritual because we don't know what else it is. Of course I tried to point out that even with a belief in the spiritual, that's still a flawed way of thinking about things. @midniterider Said he believes because it makes him feel good. Now I'm not entirely sure what he believes, but this idea of believing because it feels good is an anathema to me. I can't do it, and that's part of the reason I left Christianity. As much as believing like Jesus loved me and I'm going to heaven sounds nice I couldn't believe it because I didn't believe it. So I guess my question to Midnite is how do you do it? Do you truly believe in the spiritual or magical, or do you just believe it because you want to. If so, how? I was trying to see if I could line up whether people who were more feelings based were more inclined to accept the spiritual, but so far from my observation, this doesn't hold out. JP is similar to me in personality (So thinking trumps feeling... no not that trump!) Yet I have a friend who is very much a feeling person but has the same outlook as me on spirituality... I think. I should ask direct to confirm. So whether or not one falls to materialism on one side, or spirituality on the other doesn't seem affected by personality type. Ok thought stream ended. I'd be interested in others opinions, and please just because I'm asking why you believe that, or what's the evidence etc doesn't mean I'm attacking you. It's just the way I think... though I'm sure all participants have that figured out by now.
  3. LogicalFallacy

    The Big Picture: 65 million years of temperature swings

    So the research I've seen about a coming iceage is all talking millennia in the future. Meanwhile our ice is melting and if you are serious about heating the fire I'd also suggest finding a way to move cities without causing chaos. If you agree there is warming, no matter what the cause is, then it doesn't take much mathematics to figure out temperature rise means ice melt. Happens every spring. Ice melt means coastal flooding. Of course the other version is an iceage which probably requires cities to be shifted towards the equator, rather than away from the coast. Either way humans have survived by being mobile. Our great cities today are not mobile. This presents something of a challenge.
  4. LogicalFallacy

    Any one feel off put by atheist's?

    Now you are beginning to understand.
  5. LogicalFallacy

    Any one feel off put by atheist's?

    Yes damn it!
  6. LogicalFallacy

    Any one feel off put by atheist's?

    I wonder if you are confusing terms here? Remember atheism is only the position on whether God's exist. Now most people are actually mostly atheist but some have gone an extra step. This is different from being aspiritualist. I think a better question is should everyone be a philosophical materialist? Well no... but I just don't see any evidence to support the claim to the contrary- that is that there is a supernatural or spiritual or metaphysical realm to our reality. But atheism says nothing about this. I think you can be both atheist and a spiritualist. We have some on discord. So the threat title is flawed methinks. It should be anyone put off by philosophical materialist who demand logic and reason as a means of obtaining truth? But that's not catchy 😉😄
  7. LogicalFallacy

    Any one feel off put by atheist's?

    I would caveat this by saying as long as your magical beliefs do not harm others and you don't act on them. There are 2 billion people who believe in a magical sky daddy that's gonna send you to he'll if you don't love his zombie son. And they indoctrinate children with this and it causes real harm. Apart from that I agree you can believe what you want. I like to converse with people why they would believe xyz but if you don't want to talk I'm cool yo.
  8. LogicalFallacy

    Any one feel off put by atheist's?

    Aye aye… yes.. just reading the title made my heart bleed thinking my atheistness could have such a bad effect without any ill intent. Class A Exhibit of reasonableness there Midniterider
  9. LogicalFallacy

    I believe in Jesus again

    Judaism seems to have come out of earlier Canaanite religions, as well as being heavily influenced by surrounding religions. They then of course took these things and made it their own. So yes it grew out of the Jewish people but didn't spring into Jewish consciousness from a void. Jesus, the subject of this thread, then sprung out of Judaism of course, and Islam out of the two of them. Meanwhile Dude has found Jesus.... which is awesome cause the guys been missing for 2000 years!
  10. LogicalFallacy

    Any one feel off put by atheist's?

    Yes, I'm aware of that, which is why I tried to phrase my post in question in a manner that was not confrontational nor debating. Obviously I failed to achieve this. I was simply asking that even given a belief in spiritual things, whether the way you were thinking about it would help lead in the right spiritual direction. That's not quite phrased right, but hopefully you understand what I mean. Never said you did. I think we are talking past each other to be honest. It is quite clear re the thread title, that regardless of whether 'atheists' intentionally put spiritual people off, spiritual people are put off anyway. Which is interesting to me. Random free thought for the day.
  11. LogicalFallacy

    I believe in Jesus again

    Good on you ya silly old cod. Give me a hug. Pray for me. Um... #Jesussaves So protestant or catholic?
  12. LogicalFallacy

    Any one feel off put by atheist's?

    Ok ok I get the point. I wasn't attacking anyone, I wasn't saying anything was a crime. Sheesh. Carry on.
  13. LogicalFallacy

    Any one feel off put by atheist's?

    I'd just like to gently point out the flaw with this line of thinking. This is the exact thinking that got lightening bolts from Zeus and light before stars in Genesis. The appropriate answer to something we don't know is we don't know. Not, we can't explain this therefore its whatthefuckever explanation someone can come up with.
  14. LogicalFallacy

    So this is the end

    Bye, best of luck with combating Christians. On ideas being shotdown, yeah people have different opinions, and certainly mentioning certain topics gets typical knee jerk responses but you learn who you can engage with and who to ignore. Its a fact of forum life. Best of luck, stay safe.
  15. Again we run into the problem of quantifying "most". How do we know this is the case? I think it's intuitively true and I tend to agree but at the moment we have claims of most men that and most woman this and it's all based on personal extrapolated experience, intuition and inference. I think this is a major factor in differences in opinions on this wider topic. We all agree rape is bad but we don't agree on how big a problem it is simply because we don't have and probably can't get accurate data at this stage.