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LogicalFallacy

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Everything posted by LogicalFallacy

  1. I was pretty much thinking of the same quote. I think the full version is "By all means keep an open mind, but don't be so open minded that your brain falls out" For example I am not open minded towards the earth being flat. People try and bring in a 'balanced discussion' argument where they claim all sides should have equal time to be heard. Creationists do this in regards to evolution, climate sceptics in regards to climate change. This is nonsense. There is no 'balance' to contemplating with any seriousness the idea that the earth is flat, or that evolution doesn't happen. What we should be open minded to is unanswered questions in those subject areas. Regarding unfalsifiable propositions which is what the OP was about - it would seem to be a bit of a waste of time being open minded about such a proposition. By definition there is no test or evidence that could falsify an unfalsifiable proposition therefore you can never know its true. You can falsify my claim that unicorns exist on earth by sheer virtue of what we know about unicorn physiology and the vast amount of the plant explored where they might be expected to live. Now try and falsify my claim that a great Invisible Pink Transcendent Immaterial Unicorn exists. Any time you try I can just make up shit explaining why you haven't falsified it.
  2. Me neither. Pretty hard to rebel against something you don't think exists.
  3. See I tend to think on the balance of probabilities that an historical figure did exist. But I don't call myself Christian. I still listen to some of my old favourite Christian songs. But I still don't think I'm a Christian. The way I see it, people like Robert are attempting to redefine what a Christian is. And maybe they have a case. In some aspects you could say that Christianity has become more than a religion - that it's so ingrained in western culture that western culture is Christian, and we are all cultural Christians, but not religious ones. There is precedence for this among the Jews. Many Jews retain a Jewish identity and culture without the religious beliefs. Maybe this is what Robert is? But then I'd still describe him as a cultural Christian, not a religious person when discussing religions.
  4. That was my point though wasn't it? I specifically defined him out of what I refer to as religious. If we don't then religion is just whatever you happen to have an interest in, and then the word loses any useful meaning. Google defines religion as: noun: religion the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. "ideas about the relationship between science and religion" synonyms: faith, belief, divinity, worship, creed, teaching, doctrine, theology; More sect, cult, religious group, faith community, church, denomination, body, following, persuasion, affiliation "the right to freedom of religion" a particular system of faith and worship. plural noun: religions "the world's great religions" a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion. "consumerism is the new religion" So my definition largely aligns with the first meaning, which when generally discussing do you have a religion is IMO the best use of the term. If you want to broaden so much to the third definition, which you seem to imply, then sure I'm religious: The following are "a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion." Fishing Gaming Science Living You see where such a broad, meaningless definition gets you? Does Robert truly believe that Jesus was the son of God, died and rose again? If not I'm not sure you could actually define him as a Christian in any meaningful sense.
  5. This is why it can be so hard to dig someone out of religious belief. Harder still to dig an entire family out.
  6. You have to remember Russia and China. They may not be happy with more US involvement in the ME so will actively seek to undermine the US. Possibly they will look at weakening the US without taking any overt measures. A war with Iran will drain resources and public moral which is helpful to the other big states.
  7. Ask 10 different people to define religion and you'll get 12 different answers. So let me first define what I mean by religion: Religion is the acceptance of the supernatural in some form or other, and the associated ideology and rituals upon which one bases their life to varying degrees. This definition specifically excludes things often touted as 'religions' e.g. Science, Global Warming, Trump Worship, etc as they do not have the supernatural element required. At best some things like the examples could be described as dogmatic ideologies when taken to the extreme. I see no evidence for anything supernatural. I don't rule it out absolutely, but until we get decent evidence for it you are simply accepting things for which you have no good reason to believe. Thus I have no religion. I understand some find a cultural or personal meaning to religion but personally I see no point in believing things which are not true, even if comforting. Now, what if you just like the culture of a religion but don't believe in the supernatural? - maybe you like attending services because you like the music and the community? Well in that case I wouldn't describe you as religious because you don't actually accept the supernatural, and you probably do not base your entire life on the ideology of it.
  8. So Samson fell in love with a southern European Woman? Cool. I wonder if their gods bear any resemblance to European gods of the time, or did the 'borrow' from lands around them?
  9. No no! No one is special. The bible declares that we are all sinners fallen short of the glory of God, and CF himself has professed that "I'm not special. I'm a sinful man. ".
  10. Generally the way I've heard it phrased is that free will is defined in a way that if you could reverse time and make all your decisions again could you make different decisions - I.e.have free will. Or are your decisions determined by factors outside our control? I'm not talking about religious free will. Anyone who thinks they have free will while pre supposing an all powerful all knowing God that has a set plan simply hasn't studied the mutually exclusive nature of the claims being made. I agree we don't have absolute libertarian free will.
  11. This bring us to the question - do we have free will, or merely the illusion of free will?
  12. Come now. You and I both know there is no 11th commandment that says Thou shalt not rape or molest. What's your issue? In fact, the word "moral" or any of its derivatives doesn't appear in the bible. The bible gives commandments. If it's not a commandment written by God then god must be ok with it.
  13. Since I've been utterly bombed to smithereens by CF I'll let some Christians do some talking for this topic: https://www.gaychristian101.com/does-the-bible-say-homosexuals-will-go-to-hell.html And apparently has scholarly reasons to back them up https://www.gaychristian101.com/Define-Arsenokoites.html
  14. I'm not sure whether you are intentionally missing the main thrust of my point here or are simply obtuse? Obviously I don't literally think you are special. Damn. We need a verse for that. "Jesus Wept." Given all the context, over all our interactions, do you truly think I'm implying that you have some special intrinsic quality and I want to know why? You know, as opposed to the simpler assumption that I'm merely asking why we should take on board your particular interpretation of the bible rather than anyone else's? Why of those do you think is actually what I'm asking? Good for him. So on a side note, do you believe in special revelation - i.e. that god sends messengers and it is these inspired people who interpret the word of god and the lay person shouldn't put their carnal mind to gods word? Hmm, true. Generally I've found that a kind gentle empathetic person will pick out verses such as "Love thy neighbor as thy self", or "The meek shall inherit the kingdom of God" and expound on those verses, while judgmental less empathetic people will pick out verses to do with judgement and condemnation "“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” Interesting observation I've noted over the years. Incidentally that verse from Paul is interesting in the way it mixes up perfectly reasonable moral statements over things you can control (You shouldn't cheat or steal) but also equates a persons very nature which they cannot control with such (homosexuals) and the punishment is the same. So now I wasn't being snarky I was pouting? Brother you are so far off the beaten path I don't know how to help you. Sweet Jesus help us. You like the military, blowing things up, and killing people, especially if they are in far off middle eastern lands that you shouldn't be in. I get that. Carpet bombing = good manly shit. Precision bombing = weak girly stuff. Best to kill lotsa people, not just the ones you intend to. I digress.
  15. Hear that whooshing sound? That's the point going over your head. Errr no... no I was simply pointing out to my fellows that there is no reason why we should pay your biblical rambling's any attention and you haven't even attempted to explain why we should pay you any attention. You are dime a dozen. We've seen you before, and we'll see you again. Again... why do we care what you think, and what you reject, and what you believe? This is my point. What makes you special? You are just spouting your understanding of Christian ideology, while another spouts their version. From your point of view you are quite sure you are holding onto the Truth (TM) but from where we stand you are just vendors selling slight variations of the same product, all claiming yours is the best, and the rest are wrong. I did - I stopped listening to the "revealed word of God" coming from my ex pastor. Now apparently you've got something he hasn't. What is the point here? In John Jesus is talking to the religious leaders of the day who of course rejected his message. Acts is referring to Jews at Berea who apparently are easily convinced of things without sufficient evidence. What spiteful remarks? I merely said you were blasting away at this topic with vigour yet why should we pay you any attention? You don't think this is an important question?
  16. I am disappoint. We see CF here blasting away with vigour but he refuses to answer my question in the lions den of what makes him special. Why should we pay him any heed over a Christian who declares that God is all love and the passages in the bible regarding homosexuality were for another people in another time?
  17. I'm not sure the authors thesis is correct. Western culture has largely been a result of Christian influence over 2000 years, and Christianity as we should all know was heavily influenced by Judaism. Judaism needs no introduction here about it's historic treatment of women. So while many ancient thinkers may have had an influence, in my opinion, by looking at history and 2000 of western culture, the primary influence regarding societies view of woman has been Christianity. One only needs to read Pauls musings about the role of women to understand where much of the problem comes from. I haven't heard a single people quote Plato et al to justify treatment of women, but I've heard plenty quote the bible.
  18. Haha, good take on the ol Christian conversion therapy. He made some good points.
  19. I was focusing here on those who are out to be malicious, and believe me there are many. Those ones you can't change their minds. For everyone else I agree with your statement. I do think there is a difference between having a conversation about someone and gossiping. I've always vewied gossiping as talking about and spreading ideas about people that you don't know is true.... Did you know that LF left the church because he had an affair? That sort of shit. And I say that spreading stuff about people that you don't know is true is malicious. IMHO
  20. This is bullshit mwc. You are better than this low level claptrap. No one is gloating about anything, though in BO's case good fucking job and good riddance! I'm not going to be nice about BO and if anyone doesn't like that that's their problem. However I didn't attack him. I merely mentioned he'd been banned. I merely mentioned a few others, some of a right leaning, and some who I know tend further left also don't frequent as much. I know that because they are on Ex-C discord. There are various reasons they don't come here, not the least being the aforementioned troll causing many not to want to come here. The comment about the center was merely noting that the most vocal of the left and the right, the ones usually starting shit or getting very worked up are the ones not very active at the moment. This was merely an observation, not a "yay only the centre is left" comment. You've got your wires all crossed on this one. Incidentally this is the most fuss we've seen on the forum in some time!
  21. In which case what is the fuss about? Why even impose sanctions in response to them shooting it down? If it's in their air space its fair game. The US would not tolerate drones from an enemy in their airspace.
  22. So the Australian Christian Lobby did a donations campaign of their own - raised 2 million in a few days. So if you want to spread your hateful views you can because they are religious and people will fund the heck out of it so they can continue to do so. But try raising money for a practical cause - hard to get anything worthwhile. Bear in mind this guy is not a hard done by fellow. He's a multi millionaire with multiple properties. https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/113829213/pause-button-hit-on-israel-folau-fund-after-surpasses-2-million Can someone tell me why its ok to tout the stuff he does and people feel its ok because it's a protected religious belief, but stating your sincerely held racist or anti religious, or white supremacist beliefs isn't because they are just beliefs?
  23. I personally haven't heard any about myself, though I am quite certain my once fellow church members whisper in the shadows. My advice. Fuck 'em and Ignore it. You should practice IDGAF. In my gaming group we would say In DSA games are fun. In other words I don't give a fuck! Sometimes that is the best attitude to take. Nothing you'll do can change the mind of somebody intent on being an malicious gossiper. True friends, the people you should spend energy on, will come to you if they have concerns and will be genuinely interested in what you have to say. Everyone else give a one fingered salute... metaphorically speaking.
  24. Huh, that's what my ex church preaches. The Egyptians removed all evidence blah blah. Ad hoc apologetics. It's like how'd the fit all animals on the arc. Oh they only included one of each "kind". Mmmm hmm and what's a kind? ….. *crickets* Uh huh, yeah, and also no evidence of wandering, and you fail to account for the sheer amount of water require for 2 million + people, plus livestock in a desert! I've calculated the amount of water required and water from the rock doesn't cut it!
  25. Hi Luke Welcome to Ex-C. Glad to have you with us. Your experience will be helpful for new deconverts.
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