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Everything posted by LogicalFallacy

  1. According to Nihilism everything is meaningless. So are we living a meaningless illusion?
  2. Hi all Here we can discuss points raised in the discussion between @Joshpantera @LuthAMF and @Christforums (Who has been invited to take part in the discussion with Josh). This will save clogging up their thread with chatter. Thread linked here: So if you have anything you'd like to discuss in relation to the above thread fire away. My first point relates to what Josh said regarding WLC as below: Now I think Craig here makes a similar mistake as many god believers before him. It used to be Zeus caused lightening, the gods got angry and didn't send rain, demons caused mental illnesses. We now know that those things simply do not need a God explanation. Many of them explained by science. (One could argue they are all explained by science if we conclude that the people who figured out the truth about lightening did so using essentially the scientific method of investigation and observation etc) Moving on to Craig and his fixed beginning argument and how science proves the bible. I have heard him make this argument, I think against Sean Carroll. The thing is, science is not a set thing, it can and does change as new information comes to light. Craig faces the risk then that by tying what is scientific to the bible that it will change, and his story will therefore have to change. What if science finds the universe is in fact past eternal? (Some say this is simply impossible because if the universe is past eternal we could never get to where we are in the present moment - an interesting thought/discussion to be had there) But if it is, then there is no fixed beginning which makes the very verse "In the beginning" a complete moot verse.
  3. That's great. I was actually going to ask Josh if we could have a 'side gallery' thread in which others like you and I discuss issues raised in their debate without intruding in their thread. @Joshpantera would it be ok if I set up a thread for other to discuss matters raised in your thread with LuthAMF? That would keep your thread clean and stop the rest of us jumping in with our 5 cents worth.
  4. @Christforums You are back! Wonderful to see you again! How was the move? Since you are back would you mind continuing this thread and we'll let LuthAMF and Josh play together? (PS you'll have to ignore the last page of this thread - TRP and I got bored and were messing about)
  5. Yeah... and I'm off to bed cause I ain't staying up waiting. Hopefully the morn will bring a nice surprise and we will have a well thought out post from LuthAMF that will actually make us think. Don't hold ya breath though... don't want anyone to die of suspense
  6. I literally thought you were meaning me, me. I frankly don't give a shit about "atheist in general". I have many things in common with many atheists, and I also disagree with many things with many atheists. Trying to lump all atheists together is just as asinine as trying to lump all Christians together. That's why I don't say that all Christians believe Genesis literally and that the earth is only 6000 years old because clearly its not true. That's also why I prefer if Christians, specifically you in this case, either make your case, or state your objections to rebuttals made against Christianity. It probably is a number 1 contender. Most Ex-Christians I've spoken to started their questioning after deeper reading of the bible... and realizing it didn't make much sense. Once you take off rose tinted glasses the bible looks different. Depends entirely on your answer. I can't tell you what I'm going to do if I don't know what you are going to say can I? You are saying the bible says something. I don't know what you think the bible is saying. I can only guess, but I'm not the one making the statement that the bible already says this or that about atheists. So again for the umpteenth time... what does it say? (PS I can tell the future - you ain't gonna tell me what you think it says are you?)
  7. You know the one thing I was never told when I was young, the one thing never questioned? That was God is real, Jesus died for my sins, and if I didn't believe that I'd go to hell. Heck we went through sessions of questioning if the earth was really a sphere for fucks sake because it says in the bible the "four corners" and there ain't no fucking corners on a globe is there!? The title is right - get em while they are young. Don't ask questions, if they do ask questions obfuscate and deflect, or when shit really hits the fan make up bullshit!
  8. You make a claim. Back it up. Show me where I have actually said that. I'm not even sure why you wouldn't quote the bible at this point if you really thought it'd prove your point. Do you think that perhaps the bible doesn't quite back you up as you'd like? The point in getting you to state what you mean was so that I didn't put words in your mouth. It's no point in me saying I think you mean this from that verse, only for you to go I actually mean that from this verse. Let's pretend I've never read the bible. Not a verse. So you say: "The fact that you prove yourself to be exactly as it says (the bible) you are is striking. " So what does it say?
  9. 25 crowns that he won't even properly respond to Josh's points. Instead we will see more of the same. 100 Nilfgardian crowns that he won't get past Genesis 1:1.
  10. Note that convince =/= win. How you say?? Category error. I've actually been trying to figure out what your objections are to points we raise. That's it. So far zip. In line with scripture.... I'm not sure whether to take this literally or allegorically, but like Genesis, if it's literal, its wrong! What exactly does it say? (Note I can think of several verses you might be implying but I want to know what YOU think these are and what they are saying) No. I never called Ironhorse or End a dick ever. Not even Stranger or Christforums to my memory (And I had hard words with CF)
  11. You seriously have to stop projecting. Any unbiased person reading from the start to the finish is not going conclude that it is we who are deflecting and not dealing. I'm not sure what your purpose is on this forum, but if it's to win souls or convince others with good argument you are doing a piss-poor job of it. If however your purpose is to be a total dick, congrats you get a gold medal.
  12. Me too. Ironhorse actually engaged to the best of understanding and abilities and it was genuine. End too. Even Stranger did better than Luth - and he managed to set the new low bar. Even Christforums was better... actually is the low bar CF or Stranger? Take a pick. LuthAMF now.
  13. Actually I totally mistyped and I knew someone would bring this up. As a transcendent being the great Unicorn of invisible pink does not conform to our mortal expectations of gender. Thus the great unicorn is more correctly referenced as it, though referring directly as divine one, or great unicorn is much preferred to "it". Also much preferred to him/her. You will recant your stance of a female gendered unicorn or you will be thrust upon by the great horn. …(Is this the beginning of a split in the church of the unicorn?? )
  14. Like others here I now consider it pointless responding directly to LuthAMF. However for any lurkers who may be reading and wondering where I was going with the question it is this: Presumably the answer regarding believing the Quran is no. At that point LuthAMF is in the same position as any of us and the question becomes why don't you believe the Quran/Bible? Now if LuthAMF was honest and posting in good faith he would give a raft of objections to the Quran. Many of them similar in nature to our own objections of the bible on a fundamental level. So imagine a Muslim then replying to these objections that: This is basically what a Muslim would say. You don't understand the Quran. You are worthless infidels etc without actually raising the points at which they disagree with. Dismiss the person so that you don't have to discuss the points being made. Ya'll worthless heathens who know nothing don't ya know?
  15. Nah, I think I'm all out. I made my last reply. I've attempted posts in good faith. He refuses to engage honestly. I think @webmdave was right. This guy is a troll. I hope Dave can forgive my doubts. Forgive me webmaster for I have sinned.
  16. I asked LuthAMF "Do you believe the Quran" His reply: You see people. This one can't even answer a simple question. He doesn't know where I was going with the question. Simply dismisses it as a "false equivalence" when I didn't attempt to equivocate anything. LuthAMF you have nothing. You present no evidence for your claims, you don't even attempt to engage sincerely (despite promises you would do so). So regarding you and your bible I will say that which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without consideration. Come back when you have something worth talking about, and when you are actually willing to engage. If you are not willing to engage then we must simply conclude you are here to cause a shit storm despite your claims to the contrary. Like I said" If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... well its a duck.
  17. Well he can build strawman too. Also fails again to provide any backing for his objections. Basically you atheists are arseholes and wrong. https://youtu.be/VeuKE9_Egvw Meanwhile we are still waiting for a substantive post refuting points and problems we have with God, religion, and the bible.
  18. I'm not sure that explanation works. Well at least not with the God that Christians claim. So God knows what is going to happen, but doesn't determine it. Wouldn't that mean there is a force greater than God that could be determining what God does? I'm not sure how they marry that concept up with Gods apparent plan for mankind. Apparently he has predestined the chosen which must mean predetermined fates... unless you want to reinterpret the bible entirely. On the subject of free will, in line with Alex O'Connor and Stephen Woodford, I don't think true free will exists. Basically the idea is once set in motion (from the Big bang) everything that happened, had to happen that way (Including all your decisions) and if the clock was rewound and it all happened again, it would play out exactly the same way. For it to be different the initial starting conditions would have to be different. But its a bit late to continue killing brain cells with this level of thinking so I'm off to bed.
  19. The current leader of Greenpeace? What particular attributes are you defining as worldwide?
  20. Yeah, I tend to be fairly picky with posts I react to... although its not often I run out, but it does happen.
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