SuperBigV

Ah, but how could they consider themselves “believers” then? All it takes is a faith the size of a mustard seed (Matt 17:20)

Let’s approach your fear from a different angle. What exactly scares you about hell? How do you imagine it? In my imagination, if there is a hell, then it’s a place of fire. Fire burning everywhere. If it exists, I’ll burn in this fire forever. But for this to happen, I need to have a body or a soul, or anything else that will be able to feel the pain from fire. Our current bodies feel the pain as a survival mechanism, to prevent more damage. If we burn too much, we actually pass out and stop feeling pain. So, what will happen in hell? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain notice the wiki article says that people who do not feel pain do not live as long as those who feel pain, as pain helps us live longer and healthier lives. But what about pain in Hell? If we survive either way, I think we’ll just learn to tolerate it and perhaps even enjoy it. Similar to what athletes experience during training. I think this may be a good excercise to think about as many of these fears stem from childhood indoctrination and we have not (could not) thought them through well enough . for instance, I fear hell sometimes too, but strangely, I don’t fear hell if I “know “ that my (currently religious) family will be there also. Hell loses its sting then. What about you? What would make hell bearable for you?

Welcome to the forums. May I ask how old you are now? You mentioned that you stopped being a Christian at 40 and I’m curious how long you have been a non believer.

Your pattern of thinking reminds me of myself in some ways. If you don't mind sharing, what was your childhood like? What was your relationship with your dad when you were growing up? I posted my testimony previously, and shared that I grew up in the USSR. My dad was very strict. He only knew of one way to discipline, and that was spanking. Sometimes he'd hit me with the belt, at other times he'd use his hand or even a slipper. Hitting was bad, but, in retrospect, it wasn't the worst. You see, I don't remember my dad having compassion on me. When he would be set on punishment, and told me so, I knew the punishment would come. Even if he came home late, sometimes he'd wake us up to punish us. Thankfully the wake up to punish part wasn't frequent but hopefully you get the idea of this attitude. Years later, my dad shared that when he was growing up, his grandma would punish him in the same way. She'd never have mercy on him. Unfortunately, my dad did not learn the lesson and treated me similar to how he was treated. But I digress. As I was growing up in a Christian home, the idea of God the father ended up mirroring my dad. I was fearful of God. Fearful of Hell. My idea of a God turned out to be the same idea as how I understood my dad to be. Years later I learned my dad had anxieties, worries and was overwhelmed. He treated us kids like shit but if someone had an adult talk with him right then and there, I think he'd say that he doesn't know what else to do. But to a kid, who doesn't know how to process these things, such punishment, lack of compassion ends up creating an idea of someone who is very powerful and who doesn't give a shit that you messed up because you needed more instruction. You better get things right the first time. And that turned out to be my idea of a God. I'm sharing this in the hope that maybe you can learn from this experience and look back on your own childhood. I think our childhood plays a huge part in how we turn out as adults. Of course, I may be mistaken also.

That’s a good question. My first panic attack happened when I thought I had blasphemed the Holy Spirit and thus have committed an unpardonable sin. However, thinking back on it, I’m convinced that my predisposition to panic likely a attached itself to what was very scary to me. Perhaps if I was an atheist, I would have experienced existential crisis and that would have caused a panic.

I’m glad for the site as well. I’m not a heavy poster in general but I find this site has a community feel to it. Almost like a church community except for the religious aspects.

Must have been the Holy Spirit, eh? (j/k) Thanks for sharing your thoughts. In my case, I felt overwhelmed by my dad. He used to tell me that I should listen to him "from the first time he said something". That, I think led to hyper alertness that resulted in on/off lifelong anxiety. Couple that with a church service, 4 sermons per service, and my mind was busy thinking of ways I made God angry. When I hit puberty, I was (kid you not) repenting for committing adultery. These were silent prayers but this shit was on my mind constantly. Freud hypothesized that the birth experience is fearful for a child, that's why some children poop during the process, all from fear. If that theory holds water, then anxiety could be genetic, although it sucks if one has genes and then grows up in an authoritarian home. I'm glad I have a bit of a rebel in me and I was able to detach from the religion of my dad. But if said I never fret about possibly bad consequences, I'd be lying. I'm doing Starting Strength routine now (Mark Rippetoe), staying away from porn. Will see how it goes.

https://thedeconvertedman.com/fear-makes-religion-powerful/ You are spot on on the fear. However there’s one component I’m trying to figure out for myself. Fear doesn’t affect everyone in the same way. You could have the same idea of Hell shared with the same group of kids (usually when the indoctrination starts) and some will grow up with panic attacks about Hell while others will brush it off. What is the difference between those who have the strength and those who continue in fear? Appreciate your thoughts on this.

If you don't mind sharing what is your blog and why is it geared towards men? I am intrigued by the subject, because I always "struggled" with porn/sexuality which actually flared up after my reconversion. I wonder if these are the issues that you cover. Btw, welcome to the forums.

LOL. Your grandfather was a funny man. I think it was Robert Price who said that with Christian apologists, if something is even remotely possible, however improbable, then for them it becomes highly likely. I really like Arif's style, because he kept bringing up alternative supernatural explanations that I thought caused Gary Habermas to stumble a bit.

Check out this debate with Habermas and Arif Ahmed.

When this text was written, the Scriptures consisted of the Old Testament, right? So what do we say about a spirit who tells you to ignore Moses and pretty much most of the Old Testament?

May I ask, what do you expect to gain out of Christianity?

Here is the link to the debate I mentioned in the previous post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg7rYJxHA4Y

Here is how I look at the Resurrection apologetics. And I do recommend you watch or listen to a debate on the Resurrection by Arif Ahmed and Gary Habermaas. I think Arif has very clever arguments against the resurrection. Basically, what Christians are doing, they are knocking down all the natural explanations (stolen body, swoon theory, mass hallucinations) and knocking them down as something that is highly unlikely. And then they propose a supernatural resurrection as the only viable alternative. However, as Arif argued, this conclusion is pre-mature, because once you are open to the supernatural explanations for something, you now need to consider other supernatural options. For example, perhaps there could be a supernatural hallucinations, where 500+ people could be hallucinating. Or perhaps Satan stole the body, so it was a supernatural theft, etc.. I am now leaning towards the position of a Jesus myth. I think the Gospels support this hypothesis. You see, when we read the Gospels, we find this curious bit where the people think that Jesus (before he died) was considered to be the risen John the Baptist. Mark 6: 14 King Herod heard about this, for Jesus’ name had become well known. Some were saying, “John the Baptist has been raised from the dead, and that is why miraculous powers are at work in him.” 15 Others said, “He is Elijah.” And still others claimed, “He is a prophet, like one of the prophets of long ago.” So, Jesus starts out his ministry, he and his disciples healings and the people say... this is John raised from the dead. And supposedly, this wrong opinion persists. And what does Jesus say? Mark 8: 27 Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?” 28 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.” 29 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.” 30 Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him. Why would Jesus warn his disciples to not tell anyone about him? This is very suspicious. It could be a clever way to explain why nobody heard about this Jesus. Imagine going back in time and visiting Galilee around 30s AD. If the Gospels are true, we would expect nobody (except the disciples) to hear about Jesus. As everyone would think that John the Baptist rose from the dead. Christian Apologists typically don't touch these passages. For one, they show that the people could be convinced a resurrection happened even without an actual resurrection. Secondly, we actually have a testimony of John's resurrection from a hostile witness (i.e. Christians have recorded this even though Christians disagree that John rose from the dead). And this is better than anything Christians have.