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Robert_Tulip last won the day on December 19 2020

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About Robert_Tulip

  • Birthday 03/23/1963

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    Astronomy, Seaweed, guitar, theology
  • More About Me
    I have a Master of Arts Honours Degree for a thesis on The Place of Ethics in Heidegger's Ontology, and was a moderator at the discussion forum Truth Be Known.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    I am a Christian atheist

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  1. Hi Josh I am listening to Jamiroquai (Didjerama+Didjital Vibrations) I'm not sure how familiar Americans are with the didgeridoo. It is a traditional Australian aboriginal instrument, a hollow tube of wood, that makes the main drone sound in this Jamiroquai piece, which is clearly deeply influenced by shamanistic spirituality, with the band name from the Iroquois. I used to listen to them 25 years ago. The didgeridoo is a deeply spiritual form of music in indigenous culture. I have an old didgeridoo that I play, but the contested and traumatised situation of indigenous culture means there is not much interest in hearing non-native players. As it happens, I was on stage last Friday with a didgeridoo accompanying me playing Bob Dylan songs. It was a Catholic Church event with the Archbishop as the main speaker, on the Pope's 2015 Laudato Si encyclical on integral ecology. I opened the event playing acoustic guitar and singing Blowing in the Wind, The Times they are a Changing and When the Ship Comes In, as well as my own songs Rainbow Snake and Uluru, with the didg accompanying. Happy 80th Bob! We are moving to a more syncretistic approach to religion in Australia. This event was opened with a ritual smoking ceremony, with Aboriginal people extending a welcome to country and inviting everyone to walk through smoke made by burning green leaves.
  2. Just to state that a dogma is open for discussion will send a real dogmatist into a frothing frenzy of hate. When a dogma has power, talking about it in a rational way is off limits. Dogmas get applied, not debated. If you don't automatically share the dogmatic emotional reaction, you too are suspect of having inadequate faith.
  3. · To comment on this point from the debate thread, my view is that spirituality is about real connection, whether between people, or between people and a noumenal reality, that is with the world as it actually is rather than just as it appears. · The problem with the literalistic thinking of mainstream Christianity, that tends to make it distinctly unspiritual in any genuine way, is that it interposes a dogmatic belief structure between us and the noumenal, and thereby constructs an idol in place of reality. · There certainly is some genuine spirituality in conventional religion, but only when it uses its dogmatic symbols to gain connection to what is beyond those symbols. · Everything in the Bible should be viewed in this light, as a symbolic representation for something quite abstract and mysterious. · For example, the figure of Jesus Christ was invented to represent the connection between time and eternity, the presence of eternity within time. · Yes, this continues to open up the deficiencies of all forms of fundamentalism, especially the Bibliolatry that insists the Bible is historically accurate even where there is no corroboration and the stories make far better sense as parables than history. · The ancient mystics who wrote the Bible had a sociology rather like the divisions of Plato’s Republic between rulers, managers and plebians, or Orwell’s Inner Party, Outer Party and Proles. Each of these social structures involves a 1:10:90 ratio. For the mystics, the division was between the spiritual 1%, the religious 10% and the materialist 90%. This mystical sociology defined these three groups as pneumatic (spiritual), psychic (religious) and hylic (materialist). · The reason the mystics were crushed by Rome was that this model set up an alternative power structure that the empire saw as seditious. Since Roman Christendom has so thoroughly polluted Christian thinking, the current mainstream of faith basically rejects spiritual awareness in favour of the religious dogmatism that refuses to see the symbolic intent of the original language, and as a result allows the materialist majority to rightly perceive religion as totally incoherent.
  4. Your point about being systematic is key. Systematic logic is based on making assumptions clear. My assumptions involve high respect for materialist science, seeing all supernatural claims as allegory for natural observation. Precession provides a heuristic for explaining in systematic terms how our planet relates to our cosmos, at the wholistic level of the entirety of human history. My view is that it is essential to have respect for cultural diversity, recognising that we cannot simply dismiss a tradition that we do not understand. And even when we think we understand it and dismiss it, there is often value in different religions that is not immediately obvious. There have to be strong moral grounds for opposing a belief system on principle. In that context of respect, my view is that there are a number of religious beliefs that are definitely immoral and should be opposed, such as support for cannibalism, slavery or young earth creationism. I hold to the logical axiom that a statement cannot be true and false. So when different traditions contradict each other, the reconciliation between their views often has to be at a higher order. For example different concepts of God can reflect misunderstandings of reality that can be reconciled by seeing the conventional language as symbolic rather than literal.
  5. It is so interesting that you say "on" the sky, rather than "in" the sky, let alone "above" the sky". This reflects a debate I have had with Richard Carrier, the mythicist author. He argues that ancient epistemology imagined Jesus Christ as located as an entity in "outer space" who descended through the seven planetary heavens to be incarnated on earth. I completely disagree with that model, because the ancient use of the sky as a visible sheet of stars, the dome of the firmament, imagined the stars as a two dimensional surface, not as a three dimensional space, ie as the inner surface of a sphere surrounding the crystal spheres holding the planets. When the Greeks said that Hercules or Perseus was placed in the sky as a constellation, they did not mean the stars were somehow a three dimensional structure representing the myth, as the visible heavens of the fixed stars are purely two dimensional, a surface without depth. So with Jesus, he was imagined as represented by the equinox point, which is a very abstract way of imagining things, and is not helped by thinking he was an entity who descended from outer space, on the modern three dimensional understanding.
  6. My view is that the precession hypothesis is entirely holistic. The whole in question is how the earth physically relates to the cosmos. The overall order of life on earth sits within the whole of time and space, but the immensity of infinity and eternity can only be properly encountered or imagined through a mediating whole, which for the origins of Christianity is the temporal structure of precession, which encompasses the whole relationship between the earth and the sun. There is a further astronomical dimension of this work that I have not mentioned that helps to explore this problem of the whole. One part of my analysis is how precession relates to the integrated motion of the whole solar system, which has a wave function with period precisely one twelfth of a zodiac age. NASA calculated this motion, defined as the distance of the sun to the solar system barycentre. I produced this diagram depicting the NASA data, which integrates the whole of the mass of the solar system over the whole period of six thousand years from 3000 BC to 3000 AD.
  7. No I am not. I am talking just about the empirical observation of precession of the equinoxes, something that ancient astronomers could see, and the evidence of how the authors of the Bible thought. Where the comparison to astronomical discoveries comes in is in the inability of people to see that precession informed Christian origins. The comparison is not referring to any possible truth of any astrological claims, it is about the entirely scientific hypothesis that Christianity originated from observation of precession. For example, there is a very simple and obvious correlation between the Christian Chi Rho Cross and the position of the equinox at the time of Jesus Christ, as just one startling piece of evidence for Jesus as avatar of the Age of Pisces, that haters of astrology refuse to look at. That just illustrates the bigoted thinking of the alleged "vast majority of atheists". Zodiac ages are empirical periods of time. Of course I do. I am talking about putting the Age of Aquarius into a purely scientific framework, recognising this is the subject of near universal derision except among hippies. If you find anything I say that lacks empirical basis please let me know. I did not call you ignorant. My comment about ignorance was in relation to the broad tendency in human psychology that assumes prevailing beliefs are true. Precession is a technical discipline, and most people do not know the basic facts of it.
  8. My presuppositions include that the universe exists as observed by science, and that it obeys consistent physical laws. I am happy to try to uncover my assumptions and compare them with others. It is always important to ask if assumptions are held because they are likely to be true or because they are likely to be convenient. Assuming that a personal intentional deity created the universe is convenient for those who wish to construct a priestly hierarchy, but is distinctly unhelpful in explaining any true observations. Exactly as the theologians of Galileo's day thought moons of Jupiter was a bonkers idea, as I mentioned above. Galileo's observations just happened to accord with evidence. The fact that you and many religious people would assume the idea of zodiac ages is impossible is a testament to the power of cultural conditioning and resistance to the study of scientific evidence. Like heliocentrism, zodiac ages is a fairly simple empirical idea once you understand it, but it faces heavy barriers of prejudice. The ignorant human brain naturally tends toward flat-earthism until the evidence against it is overwhelming.
  9. Sorry Myrkhoos, but what you describe here is the antithesis of rationality. Revelation is not rational. It is entirely about the emotional fervor of faith. It sets up an axiom, that God created the world, for which there is no evidence at all, and which is not open to debate. It is essential that rationality have capacity to question its presuppositions, to ensure that anything alleged to be self-evident does not have some better explanation. For example, the premise that God Created the World is far better explained by analysing the social function of the concept of God to see the political and cultural interests served by such dogmatic metaphysical claims. Well I trust science over theologians, because science has a method to test if its assertions concur with the evidence of our senses, and to eliminate claims that contradict well established fact. The problem this raises is how human reasoning can justify religious practice without just saying God told me. I think that can be done, but it requires a more enlightened appreciation of how religious stories function as parables, as moral symbols for natural observations and teachings. You have not understood my argument. I am saying that Jesus was invented as Avatar of the Ages of Pisces and Aquarius, which means that the dawn of the Age of Aquarius, occurring over the next century, has to incorporate Christian principles at its centre. The starting point for that is the Bible description of this paradigm shift, at Matt 25:31ff, which splits the saved and the damned according to whether people have fed the hungry, given drink to the thirsty, clothed the naked, visited the sick, visited prisoners, welcomed strangers and treated the least of the world as though they were Jesus Christ. If that is the moral system for the Age of Aquarius then it presents a method to see Christian origins in an entirely scientific light. No, my analysis is not Christian apologetics. I am not arguing for any Christian claims that cannot be justified by scientific evidence. I am saying that Christian ethics can be placed on a secular foundation by understanding the astronomy that inspired the Gospels. My view is that the Gospels provide a vital basis for modern ethics, but uncovering this basis, like separating grain from weeds, requires rational analysis of the astronomical source code behind the idea of Jesus Christ. The Gospel of Mark is the greatest work of literature in history, since a work of fiction that manages to convince billions of people it is actually fact displays a remarkable insight and achievement of genius. The Christian vision of fall and redemption is a primary myth for the world, in that it is the great story that provides universal meaning and purpose regarding how humanity can continue to flourish on our planet. As such, Christianity is in a different league from hobbies lie building model trains. The problem is that the current foundation sits within the fallen corrupt world of politics, but science has given us the tools to rebase faith on evidence, the evidence of astronomy as accurately understood by the ancients. You seem to be saying that basing faith on reason rather than alleged revelation would make it irrelevant. We can debate whether basing faith on reason is possible, but it seems necessarily true that if faith could be justified by logic in ways that are compatible with evidence it would become more relevant, not less.
  10. I understand that many ex-Christians feel a deep bitterness about the pervasive irrationality of religion, but that does not mean that religion has to be irrational on principle. Just promoting the idea that religion could be rational is important in itself, as a scientific question. It means the type of fundamentalist religion you describe, which considers logic to be Satanic, is outside the pale of rational discussion, so is not my target audience. There actually are people who would like Christianity to appeal to modern secular people, to reverse the death spiral into sectarian irrelevance in which the church now finds itself.
  11. Yes I am serious. I plan to orient the book to engage with Christian theology, explaining its current weaknesses and how a scientific approach to Christian origins can help solve major problems and anomalies for the church as an institution. I understand that bigots will reject this agenda out of hand, but my target audience is the theological community who are interested in truth. I do not wish to treat theology with the automatic disdain and contempt that it often attracts. The pope is constrained by institutional factors, but nonetheless has still opened very interesting scientific dialogue about integral ecology as a way to combine concern for the planet with concern for humanity in his Laudato Si encyclical of 2015, leading to his support for the radical concept of climate restoration. This reveals underlying tectonic tensions within the Catholic Church that can become the basis for the type of upheaval a scientific reformation of faith would bring. The Pope himself would obviously not engage with the ideas that I am presenting unless radical theologians took it seriously first. It reminds me of Galileo's conversation with the papal Mathematician in Brecht's play Life of Galileo, where the Mathematician refuses to look at the moons of Jupiter through the telescope because he believes they are conceptually impossible. We know where that ended up.
  12. I am celebrating Easter by doing a forty hour fast, from 3pm on Friday to 7am on Sunday.
  13. · The sphinx is a man’s head with the body of a lion, combining the astrological signs of the man (Aquarius) and the Lion (Leo). This stone carving erected in 1440 BC between the paws of the Great Sphinx at Giza explains this symbolism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Stele · The man on the right is pouring a jug of water, directly indicating the Aquarius symbol, while the man on the left is also pouring a jug, suggesting far older use of this symbol than is generally recognised. · https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Stele#/media/File:Giseh_Traumstele_(Lepsius)_01.jpg · The underlying myth here, also recognised by the mystical poet WB Yeats in his poem The Second Coming, is that the Golden Age was when the spring equinox was in the constellation of Leo, around 10,000 BC, and that the coming Age of Aquarius will mark the beginning of a return to the next Golden Age. · A star shaft in the Great Pyramid points directly to the North Celestial Pole. A mainstream scientific explanation is at https://earthsky.org/brightest-stars/thuban-past-north-star From my forthcoming book · Polaris, the Pole Star, never moves from its position at the North Celestial Pole. Or at least that is how it seems. Polaris is a bright star in the constellation of the little bear. Sailors have used it for centuries to tell direction at sea. But five thousand years ago, apparently when these ideas in the Bible were developed, Polaris was a long way from the pole, which was then in the constellation of the dragon, Draco, as shown in the picture below, produced using astronomy software Skygazer. Polaris has moved its position in the sky as a result of the same slow wobble of the earth’s axis that causes the equinox points to move around the stars of the zodiac. · One of the strangest stories in the Bible is in the Revelation 13, where “the dragon gave his power, seat and authority to the leopard-bear-lion”. This weird image looks like a hallucination. But a quick review of the previous paragraph readily shows the real meaning. The “power, seat and authority” of the visible heavens rest in the point around which the whole sky revolves, the North Celestial Pole. In 2800 BC, the Pole was at the star Thuban in Draco, illustrated below. Since then it has shifted through the bear, which is right next to constellations known as the lion and (formerly) the leopard. The authors of the Revelation could see that this cosmic movement told the big history of deep time. For the general public they packaged it in supernatural visions. For the initiates, they explained the real meaning of accurate observation of the orderly movement of the heavens.
  14. · My view is that Christianity originated in a secret mystery wisdom society that combined Judaism and Greek philosophy together with diverse spiritual traditions from places such as Egypt, Babylon and India, strongly grounded in knowledge of the astronomy of precession. · The New Testament largely originated from parabolic fictional texts within this community. They wrote it with the intent that the general public should believe it was all literally true. Of course the general public did believe it was true, but the authors did not realise that a result of this wild popularity would be that all memory of their existence would be expunged from history, because the church of course regarded the idea of the invention of Jesus to be a heretical anathema. · That means the astral reading I propose is presented as a way to uncover the authentic origins of Christianity, removing the supernatural dross that accumulated as a result of the political priorities of the orthodox church · Calculating the exact length and timing of a zodiac age is open to several different interpretations. I examine this at some length in my paper The Precessional Structure of Time. The traditional estimate was 2160 years, but the actual length of the Great Year, the time for one cycle of the seasons around the stars, is 25771 years, and one twelfth of that is 2147.6 years, 12.4 years shorter than the tradition. · The further complication is from climate science, that the actual effect of precession on the earth combines this sidereal cycle of the Great Year together with an orbital motion called apsidal precession, which is the 113ky spin of the whole orbital ellipse of the earth. The combined figure is about 21ky, defined by the date of the perihelion, when earth is closest to the sun, which last reached its low point, crossing the December solstice in 1246 AD. On this Milankovitch Cycle timing, one ‘zodiac age’ would be only 1800 years. · Next there is the problem of the somewhat arbitrary definition of when a zodiac age starts. My favoured date for the start of the Age of Pisces is 16 September 21 AD, which I calculated using Skygazer astronomy software as the exact date when the equinox crossed the first fish of Pisces. I consider this the most likely candidate for when the ancients defined the age, although back then they could not really calculate it to within a decade. This timing could in my view be the basis for the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel 9. · I agree with Gerald Massey and Acharya S that the Egyptian influence on Christianity was massive, especially considering that the secret ‘laboratory’ was likely at the neo-Buddhist Therapeut monastery at Lake Mareotis in Alexandria. · What you mean by “making it literal” here is far from clear. There was of course no “literal” resurrection since people don’t recover from death. The resurrection story is symbolic, not literal. But that means that all the factors combine to produce a highly complex mythological story. · It is reasonable to mix up the solstice and equinox, since that is what happens in the Christian myth! The solstice in December is when the sun ‘dies’ for about three days by rising at the same point on the horizon, sun still. That observation informs both the Christmas story (also birth of Horus) and also the Easter story of Jesus dying for 40 hours. · Then you would like to watch my lecture last year to the Canberra Jung Society on the Da Vinci Stellar Template Hypothesis with text available at http://rtulip.net/astronomy · This is quite a revolutionary empirical demonstration that Leonardo’s “Upper Room” was the visible stars. · Christianity deserves a lot of blame for degrading and destroying knowledge of the ancient world. Lost material can be imputed to some extent, but ancient astronomy was complex and sophisticated, making it an immense area of loss as a result of Christian dogmatic censorship, thought control and indoctrination. There is much visual astronomy encoded within the New Testament. · This is a complicated question. “Correct knowledge” comes from accurate observation, and of course our modern scientific knowledge of cosmology is far more accurate and precise and extensive than the merely visual methods available in the ancient world. · However, as I have discussed at some length with Josh Pantera here and elsewhere, there is an amazing correlation between modern scientific knowledge and the ancient intuition of zodiac ages as reflected in Biblical cosmology. How this arose is a mystery, but the key correlation is between the Milankovitch climate cycles of precession that I mentioned above and the Vedic myth of the Yuga cycle of gold and iron ages. On this model, the ‘golden ages’ basically match perihelion in June and the ‘iron ages’ happen with perihelion in December. Much more to say about that. · Yes, I do have a different take, based on my own original research over the last 35 years. I consider my approach to this material to be entirely scientific, and welcome the opportunity to share and discuss with others who are interested.
  15. The Biblical imagination takes a much longer time frame. The Gospel story of Jesus as avatar of the age of Pisces also includes the story about the second coming in which Jesus is imagined as avatar of the Age of Aquarius. So rather than fall away, the idea is that Christianity will only come to be properly understood once the symbolism in the Gospel texts is reconciled with scientific knowledge in the Age of Aquarius. The dominant supernatural church beliefs of the Age of Pisces will then be discarded on the model of the separation of wheat and tares at the end of the age from Matt 13:24ff Here are two key texts supporting this hypothesis. Matt 24:14 "this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." This idea of the 'end of the age' as marking the inauguration of a messianic presence in the world matches to the idea that the Age of Pisces is a time of preparation while the Age of Aquarius, which will only begin after everyone on the planet has heard of Jesus Christ, is imagined as a time when the moral message of the Gospels can be more fully implemented, without the corrupted dross that the church has surrounded it with. Mark 14:13-15: "He sent two of His disciples and told them, “Go into the city, and a man carrying a jug of water will meet you. Follow him, 14and whichever house he enters, say to the owner, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is My guest room where I may eat the Passover with My disciples?’ 15And he will show you a large upper room, furnished and ready. Make preparations for us there.” This is one of numerous Biblical texts that make sense as allegory for a concealed astronomical framework. The man with the water jug symbolises the zodiac sign of Aquarius, and therefore also serves as a parable for the idea that the entry into the "Upper Room", understood as the correct knowledge of human connection with the visible heavens, is allegory for the dawn of the Age of Aquarius. The Upper Room, famous site of the Last Supper, serves as allegory for the visible heavens of the sky. The whole passion story works as astral allegory in which the redemption of the world is imagined through the framework of the reconciliation of spirit and nature, over a far longer time frame than conventionally imagined in orthodox readings.
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