TerryZZJones

Hi Nice to meet you and I am happy for you all to be here. I have some ideas that may help you and this is a great point and place to discuss this problem. First of all good for you for getting away from the Church in one piece. I have stories there to tell also, this is where the real meets the believed and possibly less tangible. You said this which is great: ".... Some people would refer to me as an "atheist", which is perhaps accurate, since I don't believe in god, but I don't particularly like the word "atheist", since it only tells you what I don't believe, ...." God is the grouping you use for all things you DO NOT KNOW. You "Lift Them Up" to God. Atheists (Many do, and show it, or they might..) have weak points as follows: 1) Lack of proof does not prove lack of object. Theists work this HARD. 2) They have a proxy as Jesus and Church do, and that is with onus and burden to prove. And this is how I solved that problem. And in that the God Hypothesis is falsifiable. And Pascal's Wager is wrong, there is a cost, a large one in fact, for belief or faith in God.

The point is that the Church will do this. They play on the temporal or time ordering of things, invent or script behaviours, time it with other events, involve other people and largely act this way in order to "Support" the notion of their "God. They make it real being the fraud that it is. In other words?

And to this question which is a good one: "Thanks guys, I’ll try to keep those thoughts in mind. " I have more if you like.... "As someone who never really felt god for myself, I can find it hard to identify with those who genuinely felt in relationship with Jesus. Those of you who were Christians for many years, did you feel at the time that you were truly experiencing him or were you just going through the motions? If you really felt you were in a relationship with the living god, what was the main thing that led you on the path out of faith?" I had an understanding that something was ongoing and that this was far larger than me. It came down to a number of things, some of this was supernatural or spiritual in basis and effect, has nothing to do with religions, and some was those in the Church acting in a way to invent their God. I joined the Church later in life, not knowing I had been harmed in the past, even so as a child, and I went for answers. Turns out they are guilty of doing serious crime to me and I did not recall it as of yet. They then newly conspired in a marital fraud, that ended in a homicide done to me. Church asked me to leave.

Hello, I am new to this forum and site but I am not new to the concepts of how Church is able to abuse people. Your situation is completely understandable and I agree. Church causes such strife in people this way and this is part of the trap of Jesuit faith. Overall you are right to reject The Church on three fundamental facts: 1) Atrocity church does to children and innocents. 2) Frauds and failings in the scripture, dogma, doctrine, ritual, and other ongoings. 3) Failings overall of the logic and facts related to any God and religion in total. For us, being associated with a Church or by being a Jesuit in the past, the problem gets simpler based on all three of those factors, and the fact Jesus defeats the faith in total. For Jesus, and this ruins the Church and Vatican, we have: 1) Jesus does not pay for you. This is not possible. You account for your own wrong doing. 2) Jesus can not decide to be a martyr and really took his own life as he saw it as required to support his faith. 3) Jesus as a prophet would know better than to offer his death as payment. This defeats Muslims. 4) Vatican admits Bible is in error. This admits murder on heresy and ruins foundation of Papal Infallibility. 5) Justifications and other specious and sophist approaches in Bible that make Jesuit faith a cult or occult. 6) The blood debt, substitutionary death, and Holy Communion, have you partake in a 2000 year old set of murders starting with Jesus himself. This will take a longer dialog and I have texts I can organize better here, but this is the best start I can make to people and they usually see through the problem better this way. Jesus defeats the faith.