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REM123

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About REM123

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    learning things of interest, journaling, exercising, playing guitar
  • More About Me
    What is truly alive is always changing.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
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  1. Hi @Kdeaustin, Thank you for sharing your story Like many other people who've replied, I too can relate to your confusion, fear, and anger as you begin transitioning out of Christianity. It's very disorienting and anxiety inducing to begin challenging long-held beliefs about reality as you've known it to be, especially when people that you love (and who love you) still ascribe to those beliefs and tell you that you're just being tested by God or tempted by the devil (neither of which are true, at all). De-converting and healing isn't a linear process, especially if you're someone who's prone to anxiety. It's very much two steps forward and one step back, but it's entirely feasible, and you can trust yourself that you're making thoughtful, healthy, and rational decisions for you (and consequentially for your baby). Personally I've found therapy (with a secular therapist) and journaling to be very helpful in coping with the tumultuous and conflicting thoughts and emotions, as well as with various transitions and traumas that I have gone through both related and non-related to Christianity. There's also a video that I found comforting and encouraging when I first began doubting reality as I knew it. It's the true story a woman begrudgingly letting go of her faith and learning to see the world through an atheistic (or agnotistic - I can't recall exactly) lens. A lens that to her surprise turned out to be filled with meaning, creativity, hope, and love. I couldn't watch it the first time I was introduced to it, because I wasn't ready to admit to myself that I was loosing my faith. It was probably a year after I'd started questioning things that I came across it again and felt ready to watch it. If you get a chance to, I hope it also gives you some comfort and encouragement. Sending you a big virtual hug https://youtu.be/C74-f4ZV-ss
  2. @DanForsman, I just saw your reply from back in June! How the time flies! As usual, you've given me a lot to consider and mull over. I imagine that I'll reply in length after chewing on the points and suggestions you made. I just wanted to let you know that your response reached me, resonates, and to re-iterate that I appreciate your thoughtfulness and shared wisdom. Thank you and I hope this finds you doing well
  3. Hi @Joshpantera, I've done that before, but suppose giving myself credit and believing in the capabilities of my own mind is like a muscle that can be strengthened with repeated exercise. Thanks for the reminder and suggestion
  4. Hey Axelle, apparently we do! I can understand your misgivings about prayer and the cognitive dissonance that would occur if one of your prayers was answered while those of others (many in dire need as your quote suggests) weren't, and the questions that would naturally arise. That falls under the same category as having to accept that if god is in control of all things, then he is responsible for the bad as well as the good in the world and that he's worthy of praise regardless of if he decides to answer prayers or prevent unfortunate circumstances because his ways are above our ways, he is in control, and ultimately "all things work for good for those that love him and are called according to his purposes." I have some christian friends that entertain that belief as a means to allay the cognitive dissonance, but it doesn't work for me anymore. I also can't stand it when people thank god for every little thing (though I used to do exactly that ALL of the time) and think that god is looking out for them when they find an unexpected book at a bookstore, get the last one of a particular long desired coat on sale (as my pastor once shared during a sermon-giving god praise for helping him to save money and teaching him patience), or make it to an important appointment on time despite the odds of that particular morning with horrible traffic and delays etc. As if a caring and active in the live's of his people god wouldn't have more important things to occupy himself with than the added comforts of those who's basic needs (and then some) are already met, when there's others who's basic needs aren't and/or who suffer in ways that many people will never experience. It just seems silly to me now.
  5. (note: if you see this twice it's because I accidentally posted this in my introductory thread, but it's meant for this one!) @DanForsman thanks for seeking me out and sharing such thought provoking and supportive insight. I saw your response last night and started reading about Harry and his family and decided to I needed to wait until this morning when I was no longer tired to really digest, particularly the bit where you said, “In spite of all these important considerations I think you are avoiding and shielding your christian experience from the very significant responsibility it has for your present state. What exactly is the crime you have committed? Why is it that you feel reluctant to turn to the friends your christian experience has brought you in your current very real crisis? Is it really OK to offer help with so many strings attached?” I didn’t quite understand what you meant in my tired state, but after some sleep and fresh cup of coffee, now do. Perhaps I do largely shield my christian experience from my present state of reoccurring (although not super frequent at this point-thankfully) guilt and sadness, though I’ve committed no real crime. There are some friends I feel okay confiding in and sharing the mental anguish I’ve experienced leaving church, but with others, I’ve been afraid of being reprimanded or of being a disappointment, though those fears have lessened throughout the years. In regards to the last question, in general I think depending on circumstances it is okay for there to be expectations (aka strings attached or boundaries) when help is offered, but not when that help is really just emotional support, regular company, and lending an ear or advice, which is how the intimacy largely grew with my closest friend/s at church. And not when those expectations are unreasonable and ultimately manipulative, even with the best of intentions. I have experienced some anger since leaving church, though perhaps not in the full expression that needs to be released to fully grieve and move on. I suppose time will iron that out. Sometimes I feel a little silly being sometimes caught up on the loss of my former faith because it’s not like I was a devout believer for 20-30 years like many people on here were. But I realized last night while falling asleep the depth of my early childhood experiences in my paternal grandmother’s church and the influence her faith and that community had on me. Though I wasn’t actively involved and didn’t feel it was my commission to introduce people to Jesus for the majority of my life, the belief that there was a god and that he was expressed through Jesus was always there. I talked to him, praised him, and took comfort in my belief in him even before I committed my life to him and got involved in church. Subconsciously I guess it feels like I’m somehow disconnecting myself from my late grandmother who’s experience and belief was genuine and very much helped her battle alcoholism and abuse. Letting go of Jesus in part means letting go of something that she valued (and never pushed on me or anyone else to my knowledge) and something that made me feel connected to her, or that I now realize largely defined her. It also means acknowledging how damaged and probably depressed she was since belief/church was a coping mechanism. That means acknowledging the brokenness in my dad’s family, all of which is really sad if I allow myself to think about it (in part because they are one broken family out of countless others). Regarding going back to church and allowing myself to be open to possibilities, I did go back after like a year of not attending, to a Christmas Eve service with my former best friend, 2 or 3 years ago. I felt immensely out of place and couldn’t take anything my former pastor said seriously. It all seemed so trite, emotional, and illogical and I felt very out of place. I will be attending a wedding that will have lots of old christian friends there this June, so that should be interesting. I don’t imagine that I’ll feel self conscious this time around during the god-centered vows and thankfully I have one friend that I’ll be sharing a room with whom I feel comfortable being my complete self around, though she’s a professed Christian. Perhaps I could go to a church sometime, even if it’s not my former church (as many of my former friend circle have moved on to other churches for various reasons and as I just mentioned the last time I went it turned me off), just to see how I feel and maybe find some closure. When I was a fresh transplant to the east coast, homesick, and feeling vulnerable there was a church I went to seeking comfort and familiarity. Ironically there was a leader there from my small middle-of-nowhere hometown, which at the time seemed like too unlikely to just be a coincidence. I attended a 5-6 week introductory course for Christians at that church and then about a year later got my then boyfriend (who's faith was waning) to attend the course with me once he joined me on the east coast. Long story short, that church might be a good place to visit to try and bring things full circle for myself emotionally. I do think I'm beyond the point of christianity being a logical belief system for me to entertain, particularly as I now understand what compelled me to prioritize it's provided comforts over the lack of logically satisfying qualities that I've long grappled with. Harry and his family’s journey were encouraging and comforting to read about. Perhaps in time I will look to be a part of or to cultivate a community of encouraging secular individuals who enjoy fellowship and enriching themselves through shared, present, and real life experience. It does sound appealing, especially that "after church high." Thanks so much for your support. I hope your elbow fracture heals in a timely fashion and that it’s not a big hindrance. Also, I’m glad that the bloody battered pig head didn’t offend you and that you enjoyed Razie’s story and her clear thinking abilities! I’m also happy to hear that you found your passion after putting considerable time into discovering it. Work does take up so much time in one’s life and planning for how to fill and use that free time in a meaningful and satisfying way during retirement is probably a good idea! Both my dad and paternal grandpa were also carpenters, and I grew up regularly visiting their work sites and riding in their work vans. I love the smell of a house under construction, it’s so nostalgic and takes me right back to childhood
  6. oops, posted that in the wrong thread!
  7. @DanForsman thanks for seeking me out and sharing such thought provoking and supportive insight. I saw your response last night and started reading about Harry and his family and decided to I needed to wait until this morning when I was no longer tired to really digest, particularly the bit where you said, “In spite of all these important considerations I think you are avoiding and shielding your christian experience from the very significant responsibility it has for your present state. What exactly is the crime you have committed? Why is it that you feel reluctant to turn to the friends your christian experience has brought you in your current very real crisis? Is it really OK to offer help with so many strings attached?” I didn’t quite understand what you meant in my tired state, but after some sleep and fresh cup of coffee, now do. Perhaps I do largely shield my christian experience from my present state of reoccurring (although not super frequent at this point-thankfully) guilt and sadness, though I’ve committed no real crime. There are some friends I feel okay confiding in and sharing the mental anguish I’ve experienced leaving church, but with others, I’ve been afraid of being reprimanded or of being a disappointment, though those fears have lessened throughout the years. In regards to the last question, in general I think depending on circumstances it is okay for there to be expectations (aka strings attached or boundaries) when help is offered, but not when that help is really just emotional support, regular company, and lending an ear or advice, which is how the intimacy largely grew with my closest friend/s at church. And not when those expectations are unreasonable and ultimately manipulative, even with the best of intentions. I have experienced some anger since leaving church, though perhaps not in the full expression that needs to be released to fully grieve and move on. I suppose time will iron that out. Sometimes I feel a little silly being sometimes caught up on the loss of my former faith because it’s not like I was a devout believer for 20-30 years like many people on here were. But I realized last night while falling asleep the depth of my early childhood experiences in my paternal grandmother’s church and the influence her faith and that community had on me. Though I wasn’t actively involved and didn’t feel it was my commission to introduce people to Jesus for the majority of my life, the belief that there was a god and that he was expressed through Jesus was always there. I talked to him, praised him, and took comfort in my belief in him even before I committed my life to him and got involved in church. Subconsciously I guess it feels like I’m somehow disconnecting myself from my late grandmother who’s experience and belief was genuine and very much helped her battle alcoholism and abuse. Letting go of Jesus in part means letting go of something that she valued (and never pushed on me or anyone else to my knowledge) and something that made me feel connected to her, or that I now realize largely defined her. It also means acknowledging how damaged and probably depressed she was since belief/church was a coping mechanism. That means acknowledging the brokenness in my dad’s family, all of which is really sad if I allow myself to think about it (in part because they are one broken family out of countless others). Regarding going back to church and allowing myself to be open to possibilities, I did go back after like a year of not attending, to a Christmas Eve service with my former best friend, 2 or 3 years ago. I felt immensely out of place and couldn’t take anything my former pastor said seriously. It all seemed so trite, emotional, and illogical and I felt very out of place. I will be attending a wedding that will have lots of old christian friends there this June, so that should be interesting. I don’t imagine that I’ll feel self conscious this time around during the god-centered vows and thankfully I have one friend that I’ll be sharing a room with whom I feel comfortable being my complete self around, though she’s a professed Christian. Perhaps I could go to a church sometime, even if it’s not my former church (as many of my former friend circle have moved on to other churches for various reasons and as I just mentioned the last time I went it turned me off), just to see how I feel and maybe find some closure. When I was a fresh transplant to the east coast, homesick, and feeling vulnerable there was a church I went to seeking comfort and familiarity. Ironically there was a leader there from my small middle-of-nowhere hometown, which at the time seemed like too unlikely to just be a coincidence. I attended a 5-6 week introductory course for Christians at that church and then about a year later got my then boyfriend (who's faith was waning) to attend the course with me once he joined me on the east coast. Long story short, that church might be a good place to visit to try and bring things full circle for myself emotionally. I do think I'm beyond the point of christianity being a logical belief system for me to entertain, particularly as I now understand what compelled me to prioritize it's provided comforts over the lack of logically satisfying qualities that I've long grappled with. Harry and his family’s journey were encouraging and comforting to read about. Perhaps in time I will look to be a part of or to cultivate a community of encouraging secular individuals who enjoy fellowship and enriching themselves through shared, present, and real life experience. It does sound appealing, especially that "after church high." Thanks so much for your support. I hope your elbow fracture heals in a timely fashion and that it’s not a big hindrance. Also, I’m glad that the bloody battered pig head didn’t offend you and that you enjoyed Razie’s story and her clear thinking abilities! I’m also happy to hear that you found your passion after putting considerable time into discovering it. Work does take up so much time in one’s life and planning for how to fill and use that free time in a meaningful and satisfying way during retirement is probably a good idea! Both my dad and paternal grandpa were also carpenters, and I grew up regularly visiting their work sites and riding in their work vans. I love the smell of a house under construction, it’s so nostalgic and takes me right back to childhood
  8. Thanks for your reply, @TruthSeeker0! Yeah, religion can definitely cause you to see things through rose colored glasses, and make life feel a little less heavy. You don't feel you're carrying the full weight of existence because God is "in control" or "has a plan." When that rug is pulled from under your feet, reality changes. I can understand how you felt your friend had grown negative and critical with their changed world view. I was just so used to being around super positive people. And we were always trying to lift other people up or help others fulfill their potential (ultimately through Jesus). It's so much easier to isolate outside of church and it feels much more like a "dog eat dog" world (because it is). I definitely derive pleasure from doing acts of kindness and connecting with people, but I'm generally less social than I was when I was in church. I can't tell if I feel guilty about it at times or if the lack of regular social interaction makes me feel bad. I suppose whether our friends from church judge us or not is really none of our business as long as they're not crossing any boundaries!
  9. Thanks for the thoughtful response @knightcore. It made me feel a bit better the other day and I appreciate it! I think your assessment of what prayer is is in alignment with my own. Now I just need to get to that place of accepting it as their good thoughts, when appropriate. I'm sorry that you have to deal with your mom praying for you not to be gay. I have friends in similar situations and can only imagine how difficult that can be, even when you've accepted that your parents don't understand or fully accept who you are. I'm glad you're that comfortable being yourself and have chosen to live your life authentically and bravely. What is it about church communities that makes fitting into other groups pale in comparison?! Thanks for the well wishes, and reminder to allow myself to grieve though years have gone by.
  10. Thanks for the reply @MOHO. Yeah, it's tough because church is such a big part of people's lives who are invested in one. It's impossible to have certain friends without the influence of church, even if those friends aren't preaching at you or judging you. The same way that I wouldn't be who and where I am without my experience or relationships in church, neither would they. That's part of the confusion for me, I guess.
  11. I guess I also miss believing that there was a God to pray to who could heal, whether it was me or someone else.
  12. I'm not sure what it is that I'm feeling or what I'm looking for in posting this. But I recently stopped going to therapy after two years and can only talk to my boyfriend so much about this stuff. I apologize in advance if this is a little jumbled or there's a bunch of run-on sentences! I'm a freelancer and worked with a crew that I work with a handful of times a year today. I first met them when I was starting the de-conversion process, which completely fucked with my head. I met them through someone at my former church and most of the crew were active in church in a nearby town. They're the kindest and most down to earth people. They're fun to be around and are just what I consider to be normal nice humans. Of course when we first met, and they all discovered that I too was Christian and was active in my community, there was the instant "bond" and camaraderie that you find among Christians of a similar breed. The awkward thing for me was that I was newly questioning everything and was dating and having sex with a non-Christian. I felt insecure and confused being around them and still wasn't sure if I were making poor decisions that weren't in alignment with what God wanted for me (or if he was even real). Fast forward four years later, I'm now much more comfortable with my decision to leave my church (and the faith) and also being around these guys. It's always a pleasure working with them. Because we're always working with clients nearby, it's not like we've ever actually spoken in depth about our beliefs and they don't know that I'm no longer a Christian, or that I haven't really been Christian the entire time we've known one another. There's one guy that I chat more with than the others. He knows that I no longer go to church and I know that he and his wife no longer attend church. But it's basically been chalked up to "different seasons" in life and nothing else. His father is a pastor and his entire immediate family are believers, believers of the "functioning and generally happy and healthy kind (from what I gather)." He actually reminds me of one of my good friends that I went to church with who I don't see as regularly now. Today, as I was briefly catching up with him, I mentioned that I'm going to see a specialist for my wrists next month. There's an ongoing issue that could be a hindrance in my career (which is also a reason why I'm not super active on this site at the moment-I'm having to limit repetitive motions that agitate my wrists, like typing). When we were leaving he told me that he'd pray for me, but he couldn't elaborate due to where we were. He messaged me privately after on social media to let me know that he really meant that he'd be praying for me and wished me well. He's the kindest guy and is someone that if I spent enough time around would be like a brother. I replied in kind saying that I appreciate it (and I do appreciate the sentiment and intention), but it just makes me feel a little sad and somehow deceptive. Part of me just wishes I could believe and that prayer still meant what it did to me years ago. I hate not feeling like I can connect to good-hearted and well intentioned Christians the way I used to be able to. And I just get so confused when situations like this arise. It stirs up emotions and I hate it. It makes me question my life and the fact that I no longer spend my time around generally optimistic and hopeful people. I have good quality friendships now, but it's not the same as being in church. And my boyfriend whom I spend most of my time with is more pragmatic and analytical (which sometimes feels very negative and critical). Can anyone relate to this at all? Thanks for listening either way!
  13. I too tried to lay hands on and heal and animal. I was at a park once and saw a squirrel with paralyzed hind legs that made me really, really sad. The part that's embarrassing as I now reflect on this, wasn't just the fact that I actually tried to lay hands on it and couldn't (he out maneuvered me with just two legs), but that I was so heartbroken and had a "revelation" in that moment. I seriously thought that God had used the squirrel to show me how much he loved people, ached for their restoration (as I ached for the squirrel's), and how he couldn't heal them because they were too afraid to let him get near for various reasons. Another time, I fainted in the kitchen for the first time in my life. When I finally came to, and my brain started registering the fact that I was face down on cold hard tiles trying to figure out what had happened, my first inclination was wondering if I was slayed by the holy spirit (which seemed so exciting) because just prior to fainting I was on my knees praying fervently for quite a awhile (which is OBVIOUSLY why all the blood rushed from my head when I quickly stood up). I also used to fall to the floor and sob if someone (always a guest pastor or "anointed prophet" at church or conventions) touch me on the forehead during alter calls. WTF The list could go on
  14. @DanForsman I happened upon another one of your responses on the site and saw that you're a vegan. I hope the video that I posted didn't come across as insensitive! There's definitely a scene in there (aside from her eating bacon) that might be off-putting depending on your reasons for opting for a vegan diet. I just love hearing Razie talk about her experience coming into her own (especially at such a later stage in life) and starting to think for herself. She's intentional with her words and has a lot of spunk! But I wanted to apologize in case that was grotesque or offensive in any way. Also, I really appreciate how your responses are sensitive and personalized. You're very good at identifying underlying feelings or struggles that people might not directly articulate in their posts and encouraging them with practical suggestions as well as emotional support. You might be a counselor for all I know! Anyway, thanks again and sorry for the bacon video...
  15. Thanks @Lost for your encouragement and comments Writing in one form or another has always been cathartic for me. I can’t say that I’m not ashamed of any of the feelings I experienced as a believer, but I have to acknowledge that for most of my time in church I felt safe, loved, encouraged, and nurtured. I guess I’ve been on a journey of becoming more and more myself over the last twelve years and church was an active and relevant part of that process. It’s hard for me to be super judgmental (although I definitely do have my judgments) about that time in my life because I was supported through something very hurtful and scary. I blossomed as a result of the community and my faith in God. It honestly messes with my head a bit, the juxtaposition between my good memories and gratitude to my old church community and my inability now to relate to them or believe in the same things any longer. I’ve read a few more threads and stories on this site and realized that I was fortunate to not have anything really horrible happen and to be a part of a church that was very liberal and forward thinking where people were for the most part sane, stable, and practically inclined as well as spiritually. That probably helps me to have a different perspective and less anger (on top of the fact that I'm always a mediator and see two sides to every coin whether I want to or not). My boyfriend has completely different reactions to Christianity. He gets furious because in his experience growing up it did real damage to his family financially and emotionally. I can only relate to that so much, and it’s hard to really separate ourselves from personal experiences despite how empathetic we are. I guess it's probably good to have both: people with little tolerance and people with a lot. Maybe we can all balance on another out. That's neat that you're interested in screenwriting! Have you taken any writing classes or reached out to any local drama clubs? Perhaps there’s opportunities to begin honing the craft there. Those are emotionally compelling topics that you're interested in that definitely have the potential to attract and audience! I wish you luck with your writing endeavors!
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