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Masihi

Authentic Christian Believer
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About Masihi

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    Thinker

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    Male
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    Religion and History
  • More About Me
    I love my religion.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Jesus Christ

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  1. We don’t bear personal responsibility for his sins, but we suffer he effects of his mistake and sin, this happens in the real world so why you even arguing against it? If we die in our current state we die of the effects of Adams sin as death is not natural to our original nature, and we suffer due to us dying in it sins in the after life. We don’t bear any responsibility for his personal sins, just like how drug addiction can be inherited, obviously the person who is born this way will suffer without having personal responsibility for it however he receives the consequences of it.
  2. That’s not a correct statement as it’s the effect of your choice that havens you not the person giving you the choice. You can choose broccoli or ice cream, but if you choose ice cream you’ll get cavities and your teeth will rot.
  3. You can choose immortality or death. You have free will.
  4. The consequences of sin is death and a sinful nature which is more sin, we hold the consequences of Adams sin which is more sin and death and depravity. The cross frees us from death and the sinful nature of Adam.
  5. Where are the words obey me or die, we are made in God’s image for he is he source of life, if we reject life we die, we are free to choose God doesn’t force us to do anything.
  6. So because God gives Satan free will to choose good or evil and he chooses evil then it makes God an accomplice to Satan’s evil? The only way not to allow that is to not allow free will which wouldn’t make God just and would make him cruel.
  7. Again you never addressed what I said, do we understand omnipotence on a rational or logical level much less how it can logically exist or function. We as people can’t fully comprehend omnipotence, nor can any created being.
  8. Nice of you to not respond to anything I wrote, it’s not cherry picking because the text are talking about two different situations, so there not conflicting. Numbers 14 is talking about God punishing the nation of Israel for its rebellion against him and their unbelief. Ezekiel 18 talks about personal violations of the law and personal sin and what happens if a person violates the covenant and the commandments of God. I don’t need to get around anything, I only need to quote both passages to you in context.
  9. I just posted this on my previous post: In the Orthodox teaching we are subject to sinful tendencies, sickness, suffering and death as the result of our descendence from Adam. With Adam’s sin our nature was changed. Our goal now is to overcome these fallen tendencies with the help of the Holy Spirit and the way of Christ so we can gain union with God and live in harmony with him in Paradise. http://stgeorgegreenville.org/our-faith/catechism/the-ofall/original-sin God doesn’t hold us personally accountable for Adam and Eve’s personal sin, as no son suffers responsibility for the sins of his fathers personal sins, he only inherits it’s consequences just like in the every day world. Also Saint Athanasius deals with your very objection: (7) Yet, true though this is, it is not the whole matter. As we have already noted, it was unthinkable that God, the Father of Truth, should go back upon His word regarding death in order to ensure our continued existence. He could not falsify Himself; what, then, was God to do? Was He to demand repentance from men for their transgression? You might say that that was worthy of God, and argue further that, as through the Transgression they became subject to corruption, so through repentance they might return to incorruption again. But repentance would not guard the Divine consistency, for, if death did not hold dominion over men, God would still remain untrue. Nor does repentance recall men from what is according to their nature; all that it does is to make them cease from sinning. Had it been a case of a trespass only, and not of a subsequent corruption, repentance would have been well enough; but when once transgression had begun men came under the power of the corruption proper to their nature and were bereft of the grace which belonged to them as creatures in the Image of God. No, repentance could not meet the case. What—or rather Who was it that was needed for such grace and such recall as we required? Who, save the Word of God Himself, Who also in the beginning had made all things out of nothing? His part it was, and His alone, both to bring again the corruptible to incorruption and to maintain for the Father His consistency of character with all. For He alone, being Word of the Father and above all, was in consequence both able to recreate all, and worthy to suffer on behalf of all and to be an ambassador for all with the Father. page 13 of On the Incarnation by Saint Athanasius http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/theology/incarnation_st_athanasius.pdf
  10. There’s slot of unfounded claims on your part, if anything you just confined my point, the universe is so hostile towards life, and it’s pretty much dead set on not allowing life, yet here we are, not only existing, but have excelled to the point where we invented hand held devices capable of communicating with anyone in the world just as we are doing now. Pretty miraculous isn’t it. As to how many planets may hold life, according to most scientists only a tiny fractions of all planets that do exist may be capable of holding life, much less contain intelligent life. God being an immaterial being in nature and metaphysical isn’t bound by any worldly limitations, Jesus being God in Christian belief, naturally can go to multiple places in the universe at the same time at a speed faster then light. Since God is limitless. So he could go any where at any time, at any pace. I will repeat my earlier point to you, Satan has free will and choose what to do just as we can, however if God decided to stop him mid way he could have or he could have created with without any free will. Satan has as much autonomy when it comes to will as we do, he only difference is in class of being, he’s just a more advanced being then we are.
  11. Keep in mind your original argument was that a being who understands omnipotence and how it works would be insane too oppose an omnipotent being. Unfortunately no one really understand how omnipotence functions or works or how it even exits on a logical basis, so Satan would merely be opposing God out of ignorance of his true power or true capabilities, even if he was not ignorant, Satan would know his place and final destiny thus as I said his goal is to take as many of us with him as possible. Satan however knows he can’t defeat God, so defeating us and is his only goal.
  12. I don’t even need to do apologetics on this one, all you need to do is read the passages in context. Nine speak of personal sin in it itself, but speak of personal sin having consequences that effect later generations. A persons children suffer the consequences of his mistake, while not being personally held accountable in of themselves, see Ezekiel 18:20. Also read my previous comment, I said where are we held personally responsible for our fathers sins, not if we suffer from the consequences of their sins.
  13. It’s the same thing I told TheRedNeck professor. We suffer the consequences of of our parents sins not personal responsibility see Ezekiel 18:20. God does not hold us accountable for our parents sins, but we still suffer there consequences.
  14. That’s exactly the same point rephrased and directed at Christianity and that’s not what Christianity teaches: In the Orthodox teaching we are subject to sinful tendencies, sickness, suffering and death as the result of our descendence from Adam. With Adam’s sin our nature was changed. Our goal now is to overcome these fallen tendencies with the help of the Holy Spirit and the way of Christ so we can gain union with God and live in harmony with him in Paradise. http://stgeorgegreenville.org/our-faith/catechism/the-ofall/original-sin God doesn’t hold us personally accountable for Adam and Eve’s personal sin, as no son suffers responsibility for the sins of his fathers personal sins, he only inherits it’s consequences just like in the every day world.
  15. By the way a creator is the best explanation for how fine tuned our universe is. Not to mention our world is so unique among millions of billions of trillions of infinite stars and galaxies which are lifeless and are too toxic to support life. As the conditions to support life are really really what I’d like to call nearly impossible, yet here we are not only existing, but doing quite well. So I would argue the existence of a creator is more logical then your ideas of there being no sort of creator what so ever. If God didn’t want the rebellion to happen, it wouldn’t have happened very simple, it isn’t rocket science.
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