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Eowynesque

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Everything posted by Eowynesque

  1. In my corner of the world I haven't found the medical community pushing for it. I work in obstetrics and still 80%+ parents choose circumcision in my region. A lot of it seems to be tradition. Fathers choose it for their sons. My husband would have chosen to circumcise our son had I not been strongly opposed to it because that is what he knows.
  2. I'm gonna be honest, I'm having a hard time parsing what you are saying and I think that says more about your argument than my comprehension. Thanks for the replies everyone. This has been very helpful.
  3. @WalterP thanks, I'm not sure how I missed that thread as I've read a lot of BAAs content. That makes a lot of sense, so much so that I feel this should be obvious to Collins and others like him. So his work adds nothing to the conversation? What a fantastic waste of grant money.
  4. When I was newly deconverting, I prayed once that god would not reject me for doubting, researching, questioning and seeking the truth. And I left it at that, trusting the goodness of the god I believed in. It really helped me have peace about my situation. I know its easier said than done when you have anxiety. Here's some internet stranger advice so take it for what it's worth...I think you could use a break from this. Focus on your pregnancy and getting healthy for your baby. This is what matters most right now. Your existential crisis can wait, you dont need to have everything figured out. Pregnancy and postpartum can be challenging enough on their own and you need to save some mental energy for that. Be aware that you have risk factors for postpartum depression and anxiety and you are going to have a newborn to care for as well. I dont say this to scare you but so that you can prepare yourself. Hopefully you and your therapist can find some helpful ways to manage your anxiety. If you haven't already, discuss your medications with your doctor. They may not be the best combination for you, you may need to change dosage or add an antidepressant, etc. Congratulations on the baby! I'm rooting for you. Hugs.
  5. To preface, I encountered this variation of the fine tuning argument back when I was newly de-converting and it reeled me back in for a few months. I was feeling rather antagonistic toward christianity at that point four years ago and was honestly disappointed that i found this argument so convincing. I successfully de-converted despite this as christianity falls apart all on its own with or without arguments for god's existence. I actually haven't revisited this argument since hearing about it and am curious if anyone else has encountered it and your thoughts. Here is a link to a draft of Robin Collins's argument of fine tuning for discoverability. If I can summarize briefly, we have no reason to expect the universe to be optimized for discoverability within life supporting parameters, yet it is. One example he gives from his calculations is from the fine-structure constant (α). An increase in α would result in open wood fires extinguishing; a decrease in α would result in less resolving power of the light microscope. Neither change of up to 9 fold affects conditions necessary for life to exist. He give more examples in this paper and elsewhere. In his view, this addresses the multiverse objection to the anthropic fine tuning argument. Am I missing anything glaring? Just to clarify, I have no stance here. I just wanted to se some discussion by those more knowledgeable than I on these topics.
  6. @Pain if you haven't read THIS speech before, it's so worth the time. I reread it a couple times a year. It's by the linguist Daniel Everett who studied the Pirahã in Brazil. Here's a snippet for you: So I gave them my testimony and I told them about my stepmother committing suicide. When I got done telling them, they all burst out laughing, and I said, “What are you laughing about?” I was really hurt. “Why are you laughing?” They said, “We don’t kill ourselves. You people kill yourselves? What is this?” I realized they don’t have a word for worry, they don’t have any concept of depression, they don’t have any schizophrenia or a lot of the mental health problems, and they treat people very well. If someone does have any sort of handicap, and the only ones I’m aware of are physical, they take very good care of them. When people get old, they feed them. I remember one man who was too old to get around. He couldn’t hunt, he couldn’t even gather firewood anymore. They would bring him food every night and help him chew it, even helping him with his jaw. I said, “Does it bother you to give him food? I mean, he’s not doing anything.” They said, “When I was a little boy, he put food in my mouth and took care of me, and now he’s an old man and I take care of him.” @Sybaris your trip sounds amazing. What was your favorite part?
  7. I've been pretty busy lately (new baby this year!) and pretty content in my ex-faith situation. I drop in from time to time if something comes up or to see what's going on. I try to limit my screen time around my kids so it's hard to keep up, especially when I'm doing well and finding support elsewhere.
  8. Best wishes RC! I'm glad you have recovered and found your tribe. @ag_NO_stic I do miss your rants. I dont log in much myself, but you often challenged my thinking and I appreciate you and what you have to say. When I deconverted I thought I would find, or perhaps hoped to find, more agreement among nonbelievers. Probably a mix of wanting to be right and wanting to replace the community of the church (not that the church can agree on much). It was a real letdown at first. I have grown a lot in my little bits of time here and I am much more accepting of the fact that humans just arent great at agreeing with each other and good is not black and white as much as I would like it to be. I just try my best and hope others do the same.
  9. What I mean to say is this topic hasn't even come up yet because my kids are too young, but it will and when it does it will out me so to speak. I'm just not ready for that yet...although I'm closer to being ready than I was a year ago so that's progress. Anyway, I dont want to make ag_NO_stic's thread about me, but I appreciate the advice
  10. You should be proud of yourself. You called him out in a really mature way. I was struck by the juxtaposition of the gross "I will always love christ first" next to "I hope I dont get measles...", a perfectly fine dad text. A shining example of religion infecting what could be normal relationships. im sorry for what he put you through. I wouldn't fault you if you had no interest in reconciling. I will say that my in laws, to our shock, lost all interest in trying to control and manipulate my husband once he moved out and we married. It was pretty bad at the time, but we actually enjoy their company now. So it's not impossible for things to change and you seem able to set healthy boundaries but judge for yourself whether it's worth the risk.
  11. That works for some topics except, for example, the topic of i dont want bible stories read to my kids before bed. But I do see your point
  12. They watch my kids once a week so it will come up. Realistically some topics just aren't avoidable
  13. I have no advice, just wanted to say that I feel for you. My family thinks that my husband and I are just really progressive christians who dont go to church and that is enough to distress them. Last year right around this time we had a nice little discussion/tearful pile on about my beliefs. I could feel the stress in my body afterward for weeks. I can't stand the thought that they are up at night worrying/crying/praying. Fucking doctrine of hell. I know that they are responsible for their beliefs but it doesn't change the fact that I hate that they're hurting. It's even harder because they are genuinely good people, good parents and we enjoy each other's company. And I hate that I can't yet bring myself to be honest with them because I know how hurt they will be. I know it's not my fault AND I feel bad anyway because I love them. I'm putting off discussing my child rearing with them for a long as possible.
  14. You're not alone in caring too much about what people think. I would just say I'm not interested. This reminds me of those obnoxious MLM PMs...Exciting opportunity for you to give me your money! To which I also say "not interested"
  15. Pretending to believe at times. For example, I have made up my mind that I am not going to share my lack of belief with my elderly grandparents. I'm fairly certain it would make my grandmother sick with worry and she's not always mentally stable. As uncomfortable as it makes me, I think sending her into a tailspin would be worse. Still, it's hard.
  16. I always had flickers of doubt here and there that never amounted to anything. These were the first to really take root: Senior year of high school. Respected mentor shared with me that she struggled with going to our church because the worship did not draw her in, specifically referencing the service that morning which I had thought was lovely (it was a little heavier in classical music that day. Our church had some exceptionally talented musicians, could be musically snobbish at times, but you couldnt complain that the music was bad). I started thinking, why should someone of such strong faith need a certain kind of worship music (read: hypnotizing) to feel close to god. I started to question the psychology of musical worship and it was never the same for me again. Worship went from being very special to me to suspect to somewhat repulsive. I hated the idea that I was being manipulated through music into having a spiritual experience. Questioning was so much easier after this because music had been significant in tethering me to my faith. 19-20 years old. My boyfriend and I were "struggling" with the extent of our sexual relationship. Our prayers were useless in changing our behavior. The "Holy Spirit" was of no help despite my sincere pleas. I also found it questionable that our guilt was so mismatched despite us both being sincere christians--me having more than him. I started realizing that my guilt was putting strain on our relationship while our "sin" brought us closer together. Why were gods commands making me feel so unloving? I decided to try to stop feeling guilty about it as a test to see if it was god making me feel guilt or the product of bad teaching and unfortunate reading materials. It was shocking to me how quickly it was gone and I started to realize that I was more indoctrinated than I wanted to admit.
  17. Finally rounded out some thoughts on this. As this is a forum and not the government I see no problem with agreed upon guidelines for posting. Toleration of all things in all situations can be counterproductive. Nor as a society do I think it is beneficial or noble for tolerance of all things to be the highest goal. Tolerance is a tricky word because of how it is bandied about in false equivalencies. Being intolerant of behaviors that trespass on a persons rights is not the same intolerance as the intolerant behaviors. One may be ethical and the other bigoted. That said it makes me uncomfortable for posts here to be deleted. I would much rather call out the things that I find loathesome. I also do not think that stating that something disgusts me and why is intolerant in the truest sense because I am not stopping that person from posting or advocating for posts to be deleted. There should be a place for disagreement to not be labeled as intolerance. Otherwise tolerance becomes apathy.
  18. I do think asking people to change like this is unrealistic but I had to throw it out there. I hope nothing I have said is taken as disparaging thinkers, nor do I think they should feel responsible for other people's feelings. Conversely though, I do not want my regard for the feelings to be put-down or misconstrued.
  19. I'll bite. This is all conjecture. I think a lot of this boils down to the thinking/feeling domains. It occurs to me that thinkers are more inclined to be of the thick-skinned, sticks-and-stones-words-can-never-hurt-me variety. And perhaps to expect this more of others. As a feeler I put a lot of thought into the real world consequences of words: Will this opinion incite discrimination? How will this statement make so and so feel? Etc. Even if an opinion does not hurt me, I can't help but think about all the people it does. I may be somewhat thick-skinned, but I still feel for those who are not. Perhaps this is a question of how much weight different personalities give to the power of words.
  20. There certainly is a lot of "listening" to find an argument rather than to understand. Thinkers could perhaps improve in this regard and feelers could learn to make fewer emotionally charged arguments.
  21. In my assessment of how things play out here, someone posts something generally considered distasteful. The "thinker" types are more content to tolerate this speech and let the thread die and the "feeler" types struggle with ignoring it because of how they imagine it can affect people. As a feeler type I feel (haha) that there is not enough challenging of the argument to argument type (as is wisely advocated as a counter to bigoted opinions) to offset the -ism speech. While there is power in not giving this content a platform, there is also the consequence that silence appears to many as assent.
  22. I doubt he was trying to be sexist but the word choice was unfortunate given the setting and what with the etymology of the word being a reference to female madness. It would have been more appropriate to call just the question hysterical and not her as well since she was just doing her job. Probably much more unfortunate than intentional though. If these things were handled in private and not smeared all of over the news it would lead to much less animosity.
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