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Posts posted by TruthSeeker0

  1. On 4/4/2020 at 3:46 AM, Myrkhoos said:

              Doctors are in a prisoner's dilemna. They have been put in that decision by lots of bad political actions as well. But medicine has a simple base critaria. Preserving and increasing biological life quality. When you have finite resources you spend it on people that have the best chance of survival and quality of life. The principle is simple. Its aplication can be fuzzy as many actions in reality tend to be. So, you have a ventilator. Two patients in critical condition that need it. You have a 60 year old patient with diabetes and a moderately healthy young person of 25 who happened to have a slight sensitivity to respiratory disease. Based on that principle you give it to the young man, because of the odds are that he can survive and have a longer life. Is this calculation 100 percent certain? No. Does is take into consideration ALL of the data? No. But that is life. We make decisions based on limited data with uncertain results. 


    The problem is that you have medical staff evaluating the quality of life of differently abled people. That is not "data" as you put it. That is one person, without limitations themselves in most cases, stepping in to decide the worth or quality of another person's life. And those observations are not necessarily unbiased. I've seen it up close and personal now. People shouldn't make assumptions that the quality of life of disabled people isn't as fulfilling because their legs will no longer carry them, because they use assistive devices, because they can no longer continue their career, because the world isn't as physically accessible to them anymore, because they speak differently, or any other reason. 


    To think that in the current triage system there are no risks to disabled people is naive and ignorant. 


    Also, the world doesn't revolve around the US - I don't need to post specific examples from the US just because some members here live in the US and likely don't think outside their corner. This is an international online community. 












  2. 2 hours ago, TABA said:


    Indeed, doctors are forced to make agonizing choices when they are overwhelmed with cases.  Decisions have to be made.  How would you suggest they decide who to help?




    I'm not a Dr. I do not have the answers. 

    If my partner ends up in critical care, does he deserve to be overlooked because he uses a scooter instead of his legs to get around and isn't as "normal" as what society has pegged as the "norm/ideal" (fit, healthy, able to work and contribute to the economy - of itself another ableist definition). 

    If there's something that hasn't left me yet from my fundamentalist upbringing it's that all life and all people are of equal value. I do not think of life in capitalist terms. 

    • Like 1

  3. 3 hours ago, disillusioned said:

    I'm personally very sick and tired of hearing people spout lines about how good or bad anyone has it right now, and how they deserve or don't deserve what they're getting.


    This just sucks. For everyone.


    The fact is that it sucks more for the poor, the disabled, the elderly, etcetera, etcetera, than it does for anyone else. This is not a matter of opinion.


    The fact is that many, many people will die from this. How many, precisely, depends partly on how we behave in these next few months. 


    The fact is that many of us, myself included,  are very fortunate to not be in financial need at this point in time, and to not be members of a particularly vulnerable sector of the population. Bully for us. But I'd hazard that I'm not alone in having close friends and family members who are not so fortunate as I am. No one needs to thank me for the welfare they receive. No one needs to be grateful to me for the help that they get in this dire time. The fact is, I want to live in the kind of society that helps people out when crises strike. And I don't care at all about whether anyone is grateful or not, because that kind of society is just better for everyone involved, even for those of us who end up contributing more to the social safety net than we receive in return.


    The fact is that I honestly don't care if anyone agrees or disagrees with me here. But I'd very much like it if we could try to get through this together rather than attacking each other for no apparent reason.


    Stay safe everyone. 

    Thank you. I guess when the vulnerable and at risk or disabled end up in an overloaded critical care, where the Drs are forced to triage people based on their "quality of life" or "ability", they should just be thankful they got so far in society, and be willing to die a death without assistance when the ventilators run out, because - that is what ableism is at its core. 

  4. 2 hours ago, MOHO said:

    You are 100% correct, @TruthSeeker, this pandemic HAS revealed what kind of society we live in. We live in a society where people pull together to assist each other. Our leaders released funds to help, are cutting read tape to allow faster production of vents and testing of a vaccine. There plans afloat to assist renters and mortgage payers as well as assist those who are suddenly out of work. And for your information those who EARNED more in the States are to receive a smaller check or, in our case, nothing at all.


    I am sick and tired of hearing about how we are not doing enough for the downtrodden and those with their hands out. I would like to hear some of these folks thank the rest of society that PROVIDES what they ARE getting.


    Now, @TruthSeeker, stop the bellyaching and wining and DO SOMETHING to make the situation better!

    I'll shut up. That's all I have to say on the subject. 

  5. 1 hour ago, MOHO said:

    Yes the financial situation is quite sound compared to 2008.

    There are folks waiting in the wings, as we've seen recently, ready to purchase devalued stocks. Plus there are government programs and expenditures directed at those who need a safety net or two. Of course that's mostly in the U.S. not Canadia where @Margee is.


    What can you say about any gub'mint programs up there, Margee?

    Also this virus is not going to kill more than 3~4 % (bad yes, but not the end of the world) and when folks realize that all will start to get back to normal. It's important to guard ourselves and others so there is no run on hospitals but not so that we don't all die. 80% are recovering. 

    This just does not help. I'm tired of hearing that line. Tell that to the people who have asthma, lung, heart and other conditions and who are at risk. Our lives matter! 


    PS sorry but this pandemic has revealed exactly how ableist society is. Exactly what we prioritize. With the news anchors spouting off about how only a portion of the population is dying, with what I can only call a callousness towards that population that is very revealing. And when the shit hits the fan, it's the abled over disabled in the hospitals whose lives are seen to have more value and who are worth trying to save. 

    It's the same with $$$. In Canada those who have worked and earned over $5k the last year are getting $2k per month in emergency measures, while the disabled have been given less all along to somehow survive and live. What is this if not a tacit acknowledgement that a person cannot survive on less than $1k a month? You're out of luck if you're "not disabled enough" to qualify for disability but not able enough to work a lot. 

    As I said, this sure has revealed what kind of society we live in. 

  6. 6 hours ago, buffettphan said:



    Not just the old testament., but the new testament also:






    Don't I know it. I grew up in a very "Pauline" church where men were the preachers, teachers, and rule setters about what women could and couldn't do (no birth control, make-up, piercings, movies, TV, dancing...endless list). So a Bible written by men and interpreted by men, doesn't require a lot of thinking to figure out what such a god (read: man) favors. 


    • Like 3

  7. 11 hours ago, LeiaBryant said:

    Yeah maybe I just encountered Christians focused on negative aspects of Christianity. It seems clear that there is a built in bias against women in Christianity. Do you agree that the Christian God clearly favors men over women?

    I know the question isn't for me but what more evidence is required for this than the Bible itself? Is the old testament not enough? 

    • Like 2

  8. 9 hours ago, SarahJaneSmith said:

    Welcome! I struggle with guilt, too. I still feel scared to post on here because I remember verses like “if you disown him he’ll disown you” and so I think “here I go sealing my fate in hell!” and yet it’s also liberating. It’s a strange journey for sure. 

    It sounds like you still believe in hell? That's basically what controls xtians. Some reading as mentioned in the above discussion could help that. 

  9. 5 hours ago, freedwoman said:

    I can't if I wanna be normal and do something with my life. Dead end job, no college in years, no family, no friends. My weirdness has gotten me nowhere. I'm a social failure and loser. But whatever. Sorry I'm not trying to take over your thread.

    Ouch. Don't be so hard on yourself! Btw theres a big connection in growing up brainwashed in xtianity, essentially being told you're a worthless peice of shit and need Jesus for redemption, and the messages and self talk that people give themselves throughout life. Many of us exit xtianity with terrible self confidence and little idea of who we really are. And this negative self talk is definitely influenced by the pattern of negative messaging we have received. 

    One book I'll tout again that goes into this in great detail (and helps you come to terms with this messaging and heal yourself) is Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell. 

    • Like 2
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  10. 3 hours ago, Margee said:

    I just had the best talk to my doctor over the phone. I have been going to him for 23 years and he knows all about my anxiety. 


    First he told me that sleep was very important because the body recoups through restorative sleep. So 6-8 hours. And rest and relax. Do some meditation to calm the body down (which I have been doing for a long time) He wants me to dance in my living-room, play my favorite music, do a hobby, spring clean, go for walks and only turn the news on twice (if I absolutely had to) once in the morning and once at night to get caught up with what's happening. And then watch as many funny movies or interesting documentaries as I can. He said how important it was to keep the stress hormones from surging through my system because it would completely take away from building up a good immunity in my body. We all know by now that stress kills. He also said to get to the store for groceries at the seniors hours because yesterday (apparently) you practically had the store to yourself. Basically he told me to stay out of any other store except for going for groceries, unless there was an emergency of course..And stand the 6 feet distance from anyone. Also vitamin c and d were very important nutrients for good immunity so I take those.


    But through all that is coming in the next few weeks, I am to stay calm and not create stress in my body. (the flight or fight response) He said this was so important.


    I just thought I would post this because I have experienced every kind of emotion a person can go through in the past month. I can go from calm to terror in a minute. And because I have an anxiety personality, it gets exaggerated in my mind,  ( Ex: I have everyone in my family dead from this) so it's really important for me to stay calm. I wanted to share this talk with you in case their are other members who have this cursed type of personality.


    Love you all and please stay safe.. (hugs) to everyone.

    Thank you @Margee! I too have this cursed personality and the last two weeks have been so stressful. It managed to exhibit itself in some unpleasant symptoms as well, the stress, and I've realized I really need to limit my exposure to the news. It's all made worse by the fact that I feel like my safety net, or whatever there was of one in my family, or the illusion of it, melted away over the last year as I figured out what people truly think of me and how (un) supportive they are. I found a wonderful person and now my anxiety and stress is focused around his potentially catching COVID19 and how he would fare (he has MS). My mind goes places and catastrophizes and it's no good for me at all. 


    Your Dr has excellent advice and I'd like to say thanks for sharing it. 💓To everyone who is stressed out, here's a visual that might help. 


    • Like 2

  11. 4 hours ago, LeiaBryant said:

    I am the equal to men because of my magick. God may have made man and woman but the Goddess gave us magick and made us equal.

    No entity is required to "make" women equal. The very fact that some women need an entity to make them feel equal just proves that yes, we reside in a patriarchal world where such things as religion have still left a patriarchal imprint in the secular world. 

    You're equal when you give yourself respect, pride, love and the self confidence those should result in. No god or godess required for that. 


    Edit: you can believe in gods or goddesses but this is the Lions den on a site where the members are likely predominantly agnostic and athiest, so in this respect you can expect to get pushback by claiming that such gods exist. 

    • Like 1

  12. 7 hours ago, freedwoman said:

    Because women allow it. Women say they want equality but say men can't hit them back. They still want men to protect them. They care about their appearance more than intelligence and physical strength. They like the bad guys. Then they cry foul and play the victim when he gets bad on them. What did you expect ladies. I don't understand my own biological sex? Women are another species. I'm done with defending women. What have they ever done for me? Oh yeah they rejected and condemned and insulted me for not being like the rest of them. 

    Well that was one grand generalization about half the human species. I'm not really a fan of generalizations. 

  13. 44 minutes ago, freedwoman said:

    Well if they really want equality they should work in dump areas. Be mechanics and engineers. Infantry women and all that stuff. If they really cared about other women they would go to Islam nation's and fight to free those poor abused girls and women. I would. But not the spoiled entitled feminazies here. Who get all triggered and offended and cry sexism  just because some guy opened the door for her.

    Who says doing "male" things means women are equal. I'll turn this on its head - men are not equal to women because on average they don't do as much housework, or sewing, knitting, crafts, or any other domestic science that's traditionally been the domain of women. This whole "men and women have to do the same things to be equal" argument just makes no sense. 

    • Like 1

  14. 10 hours ago, DarkLordPhil said:


    Assemblies of God. My parents went to Baptist churches until I was 10 (my dad was raised Baptist; my mom converted later in life) and then switched to Pentecostal churches after some theological disputes with their pastor. 



    I haven't. I would appreciate recommendations for more neutral works on the history of Christianity. I do think that's the case with me—I walked away from my faith, but I see now that the idea that it's the only truth is still programmed into me. I have my own practice and haven't gone to church in years, but as soon as someone says "You're going to Hell," my first reaction is panic because I think they're right. 

    I can recommend any work by Bart Ehrman he has excellent work on the Bible. He has a whole new book coming out on heaven and hell. During my deconversion I also read Godless by Dan Barker (Dan is a former pastor), Dawkins' the god Delusion, Valerie Tarico (trusting doubt). By far the most helpful was Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell. This is about the psychological process of leaving xtianity, understanding your trauma and abuse, and healing yourself. It was a lifesaver for me in understanding just how toxic xtianity had been for me, and why and how I needed to heal. Marlene also operates an online community for extians with resources on religious trauma syndrome, including a support group. https://journeyfree.org/


    When you digest and understand that xtianity was created to control the masses (that's what purpose the invention of hell served - it was a "new testament invention", hell isn't even in the old testament.  There was great disagreement in the early church over what should make it into the new testament as it is. When you realize you are venerating and wasting precious mental energy on a ridiculous concept invented by a bunch of power hungry men thousands of years ago to control the masses and get $$ for the church, you get mad as hell and decide to live life instead of cowering in fear. That's what deep brainwashing does, and why Winell's book is so important in particular - so that you can understand your past and recover from it. I understand, I was there. I was an indoctrinated fundamentalist of the wackiest types. But I educated and freed myself mentally and you can too. 

    PS there's several threads on hell in this forum with more info on how the concept came to be created by the early church

    • Like 1
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  15. 11 hours ago, DarkLordPhil said:

    I've been out of the church for about four years now. I moved out, took a job in another state, and just stopped going to church. Over a period of about two years, I started kind of hesitantly researching different pagan traditions—Wicca, Heathenry, Greek reconstruction—found shamanism resonated with me, and thought that was it. I'd left the church and didn't hold any ill feelings toward it or Christianity in general, and I was happy. 


    But when I visited my parents (who don't know about my beliefs) this past Christmas, I went to church with them, as usual. They'd changed churches over the past year, and the pastor of this one used the Christmas Eve and New Year services to deliver….not quite fire-and-brimstone sermons, but definitely come-to-Jesus sermons. One of them was a little lighter, more of the "Jesus loves you, please come to him" variety while the other got into more of the "there are eternal consequences if you don't follow Jesus" theology. And I remember feeling just this sense of terror. I'd be lying if I said I didn't seriously consider rededicating my life to Christ right then, just because I was so afraid of what would happen if I didn't. You know those stories you heard in the church, where converts say they felt so convicted over their sin that they dropped to their knees and prayed for God to save them? That's what it was, except I didn't pray. I went back to my parents' house, processed what had happened, and concluded that fear of eternal hellfire was a terrible reason to embrace a religion. 


    Ever since then, though, I've been thinking about just what I was raised to believe. There was a lot of abuse in my household—emotional, verbal, mental—and I've spent the past few years coming to terms with that. But I also became a Christian when I was 11 years old, after I started crying when this stupid "Biblical womanhood" self-taught course thing I was taking explained why sin is such an affront to God. I felt so guilty, so dirty and unclean, that I just sobbed as my mom led me through the sinner's prayer. It was always framed as a beautiful moment, and I thought of it that way for years, but the more I look back the more I realize how messed up that was. I was just a kid being taunted with eternal torment because I hadn't been following God's rules, and I was the one expected to feel guilty? 


    But then again, that's how I was raised to see authority. My mom would sit me down at the table and say she loved me, then proceed to dismantle me as a person, as a daughter, as a good Christian. She'd tell me my depression and anxiety were a lack of faith. I think she suspected I was a lesbian long before I even learned what a lesbian was (I was very sheltered) and cut me off from female friends I now know I was crushing on. She refused to let me dress the way I wanted, refused to let me listen to music that wasn't made by Christians, and demanded I get straight A's even when I struggled with algebra. And she had a temper. I can't tell you how many times I'd be talking to her and think we were both having fun and joking, when all of a sudden she'd turn on me and verbally abuse me for my "snotty disrespect." Through it all, she'd say she loved me. The abuse is what stuck with me, but the love is what she wanted me to focus on. 


    The more I think about it, the more I realize that this is the God I was raised to revere. An all-powerful bully who would send you to hell for making a face he didn't like, cut you off from the people you love because he thinks your love is wrong, and demand you love him with all your heart. And for a long time, I did. Or I tried. I was a devoted Christian for so long, trying to make my love perfect for a God I thought I could please. I look back at who I was then, and I know that Christianity might not have been at the root of my anxiety, but the fear of angering God certainly made it ten times worse. 


    I apologize if this was rambling. I'm just now coming to terms with all that, realizing that the faith I was raised with was messed up. Which is difficult, because up until now, I'd thought Christianity and I parted on good terms. I didn't have any ill will against it; I just chose a different path. Except now I see that path was one no child should have been made to walk, and I feel guilty. I feel guilty for seeing my childhood faith was toxic. I feel guilty for seeing God as a bully. I feel guilty for wishing I'd been raised with no religion at all. Even knowing that there was something deeply wrong with it,  there's still a part of me that wants to acknowledge Christianity as the only true religion. 

    If there is that kind of part of you, then you need to delve into Christianity and read about how it came about. That's what I would recommend. Any books by authors such as Bart Ehrman and others who have written about the Bible and Christianity in a more historical perspective,  in a more unbiased way. Have you done this? 

    Often people think they have fully devonverted when they have not intellectually dismantled their former belief system and don't really know what they think of it. Or then there's residual fear simply because the brain washing was that effective. Time, and lots of reading, helps that. 

    I'm sorry for the abuse you suffered, for some reason it appears authoritarian abusive parents are too common within these belief systems. 

  16. 10 hours ago, TEG said:


    “Not every house of worship is bowing to government guidelines designed to help snuff out the virus.”



    Trump's own words contradict claim he's always viewed coronavirus as 'very serious'

    It’s a democratic hoax!


    I have always gone to work whether I was sick or not.  Will probably have to change my ways if I get sick this time.

    Besides the stock market, my biggest worry is that we have one partial package of toilet paper and last night the store shelves were empty.

    The recommendation, at least in Canada, is that anyone who can work from home do so. Right now they are trying to limit those going to work to essential workers. 

    I'd do better than "probably." Is it worth endangering the lives of other people? 

  17. On 3/5/2020 at 7:24 PM, freedwoman said:

    Hello sisters. I have a very important question I need to ask you all. When you were still Christian's how did you feel and what were you thoughts on being commanded to submit to/obey your husband's in EVERYTHING? Like your husband is now your god. I've always had a problem with that. Some Christian's even say that even if the wife is more qualified to be a leader she must still submit to her husband. They say that it's a sin for the wife to lead or have equal say so with her husband. I'm actually glad that one of my former Christian co workers refused to submit to her husband. He told her he didn't want her to work. Not even when the kids were at school. She refused to submit and worked anyway. What do you know. Her husband got injured on the job and his workers compensation couldn't pay for all the bills, groceries, house and car payments. Luckily the wife made the better desicion. If she would have just blindly submitted they would have all been homeless. In my thoughts submission is abuse plain and simple. No one should be forced or commanded to submit to anyone in a relationship. But if they want to then cool. Do it. I know lots of Christian women are fine with that and even derive some pleasure being dominated by their men. Kinky. Anyway sorry about that. I say no to forced or commanded submission. That is why I avoided marriage like a disease when I was a Christian.



    Smart woman, re avoiding marriage. 

    I think a lot of people in my ex church, women as well, would have had a big problem (if I had let them in on this) with the fact that I was willing to marry only if it was a partnership and not a dictatorship or man as "head of the household". The other thing making me run in the opposite direction from any such Union was that birth control is forbidden in that church. I remember sitting through a sermon where it was mentioned that the wife only had a right to say no to sex if it was a pre arranged mutual decision, made only for health purposes (both mental and physical). I was inwardly enraged - that a woman who already has 10 children has no power over the number of children she has, or over her own body. 

    I received a great deal of pity from other women in the church that I "hadn't been able to catch a man" (that's supposed to be your lifes purpose). I have nothing but deep pity for them now. 

    • Like 1

  18. 1 hour ago, LeiaBryant said:

    I somewhat second this , don't trust others to give you truth . Find out the truth yourself. I for example tried to do magick spells and they actually worked for me.

    What kind of spells? How did they work? 

    1 hour ago, LeiaBryant said:

    Your experience may be different but like that song in the movie zootopia says try everything.



  19. Hi. I think you should dig deeper. Why are you scared of being an athiest? It's likely not that at all, it's likely fear of social ostracization and social consequences of the label or something else. Once you figure out what it is you actually fear you can come up with a plan as to how you will handle that. 

    For example with my own family, when I "came out", I avoided the athiest word and used agnostic simply so that I could avoid the worst of their judgement. 


    Edit: I think your cousin has given you really good advice. Reading about the origins of hell and a historical perspective on the Bible helps with the fear that it may be true afterall. Your mind simply needs time to process all the info for your beliefs to "gel". 


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