Regular Member
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

43 Good

About Samuel

  • Rank

Profile Information

  • Gender
  • Location
    So Cal
  • Interests
    Adjusting to life outside of religion
  • More About Me
    I like getting outside and enjoying life, and beer.

Previous Fields

  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. Samuel

    On narcissistic Christian parenting

    Thanks truthseeker, I’m just taking it one day at a time. One of the things that is crazy is that if felt like they sensed I was getting over it, and just ratcheted things up and made it harder for my deconversion etc... They’re definitely not my allies. And that’s really hard because there’s this kid part of my brain that I have to explain this to.
  2. Samuel

    On narcissistic Christian parenting

    It’s weird my parents will actually help but only if I am willing to let them feel like saviors. Its been hard for me to see that as not help. Its been hard hard to get over the fact that they use this as an excuse to tell friends and family sure we’re willing to help. Most recently I’ve been homeless, they know this, they kicked me out of the house because I wouldn’t engage them about being gay or a wide range of other things. While they were clearly able to make the fact that they were kicking me out known, they failed to provide any options. They’re not poor people. They have a house in Orange County CA but live full time in Scotland as religious “missionaries” because the Scottish must be convinced of the new Christian truths their cult leader revealed about the world ending in Europe. They sent an evicition threat through certified mail, and I left by the date demanded. I didn’t have anywhere to go, they know that. Im in the tough position of needing help, them knowing I need help, and knowing that under no circumstances am I willing to let their religion back into my life again. And there’s just this cruelty factor where I don’t feel like I can talk to friends or family because they would all say your parents are willing to help you just have to talk with them. Because that’s the truth, they are able to help, it makes no difference to them, but they just have that narcissist self centered manipulative truth with a Christian face. I don’t seem to be able to explain to people that it’s not as it seems. thanks for this article.
  3. Samuel

    On narcissistic Christian parenting

    Wow, such a great article. All these things are true. I think it’s hard to express all this and get help for it too. I don’t even know what the help looks like and I’ve been to codependents anonymous meetings for just this reason and broken off contact with my parents before I was ready, and when I still needed help from them. It was always the lure of help that might come if I stuck around. I just didn’t have a choice emotionally and for my well being and the boundaries that I drew. I think about it and really realize how much I hoped that they would come to their senses before I had to cut the remaining ties and take on challenges in my life I wasn’t ready to take on alone.
  4. Hey guys, I’ve found all the comments super excellent thanks. I reread them and have thought about them again several times and have been working through more of this deconversion along those lines. I added hearts to the comments. Neverhealed52years really put a point on something I had forgotten and just made me recall: the complete arrogance and assholery of being told that your fucking being talked to all the time (I recall the smug and confident bastards in positions of power who solemnly affirmed this to me and many others) and it’s just your fault for not hearing. WHO THE FUCK tells that to a kid!!!! You should be hearing voices that don’t exist and if you don’t hear them you are evil, bad sinful etc... I was really looking for more healthy framing/seeing the experience and I think I got that a bit more.
  5. This thread makes me feel sad, angry...
  6. The thing I have the biggest issue with is that I really do find it to be an immoral book. Even a lot of the teachings of Jesus, especially when considered from a higher point of view of morality outside religion. Jesus was petty, didn’t actually say that much, and people have to admit that a lot of the things are just down right not very useful for life. There’s nothing about how to live a good life, why something’s are the way they are, as in there is no rational for the body (human body) the kinds of thing a creator would know intimately. If Steve jobs or Jonny Ives were showing off a product they would be able to talk about the inspiration behind it. No explanations for the human brain, how to work it, why it works the way it does. A creator would be able to elucidated these things, not shroud them. Real inspiration and understanding and explanation has come from psychology and sciences, things that make us say Aha. The brain has a lot of limitations, can you imagine the kind of insight a creator would be able to produce, a sort of users manual. Jesus was not a demonstration of any of these things, he was as merely human as you get. He didn’t go above or beyond anything that a person couldn’t expect to see on any day of the week from someone with charisma and solemn gravitas. Ironically charisma and solemn gravitas don’t have anything to do with truth. It’s human, so human to like these things, human to uplift them. We like to feel like we are being led by heirarchy, that’s human/ape-like behavior. Everything demonstrated by this book is proof of how clearly it is a product of man especially by way of its lack of imagination.
  7. Wow, I’m kind of grateful that this ended for me when it did. I could have spent my whole life reading it. Making things of it. Do you think it was the ultimate exercise in madness or what?!
  8. I read the whole thing.
  9. I was wondering if anyone had a similar experience of being taught to have a relationship “with god” but which was really with themselves. I went through this experience. And the effects of this have been one of the harder parts of my deconversion. Both my parents were oddly spiritual as you might call it and into their “personal” relationships with the deity. They were part of the reason I believed in the normalness of trying to carry out a relationship with the god in my head. Id love to hear what other people have to say. But I’m also curious about this from a psychology stand point: isn’t this the weirdest sort of cultural thing a human being could be taught, with possibilities of sparking all sorts of mental illness?
  10. I would try SMART as well if you can find it. I haven’t tried it myself but there are many more 12 step programs in my area. My perspective on the 12 step programs is that they should get you on the road to recovery and out the door. You’ll learn tools, examin yourself, empower yourself, while facing potentially some hard truths. You can find all different types of groups for 12 step programs even within the program you will have to seek out people who have the experiences and past that allow you to get the help you need. For me it was never about the program so much as having a place to share the things I needed to talk about, listen for tools, get sponsorship where I wasn’t accountable. I don’t believe in life long membership but that’s me. I also think that if you don’t want to live you shouldn’t have too, but I balance that by saying if you can’t figure out how to do it right you need to get some tools and resources to help you out, change your perspective, change your mind, work with what you’ve got, learn about yourself. Appreciate weakness if they’re too great and respond accordingly. I grew from the experience whether or not the 12 steps would have gotten me there. I used it as a utility, made a couple friends, didn’t continue some friendships/relationships/sponsorships too. The most important thing to me is if you can be honest. Is if the group has the capacity to hear you/put up with you. You go to meeting to hear other people tell their tales and pick up on the lessons that will help you to appreciate especially the behavior that you are afraid of. If you are lucky you’ll be able to examine some of the deeper things like where your needs come from. There’s good in the meetings, some bullshit, and sometimes you don’t know what is what. If you have the mindset to collect what you need, participate until it makes sense or until you can make a decision whether it’s working or not you’ll probably gain a lot. The surrendering part is admiting you’re not sure what’s going on, which you’ve already done. Theres no harm in languishing in the unknown and hoping for a god to help you, but practically speaking the god is the advice and life experiences others bring to the table. Hence you need to do some looking around to find a worthwhile group and play it by ear listening for hints suggestions and understand that your working with your own brain and responsible to figure it out. If always found people in 12step groups willing to help and that’s a great quality, it’s part of the amends and being of service to others. If you’re in a culty 12 step you find another one. Go to an NA meeting instead. You get to choose that for the most part if your city has different groups. You don’t have to like the group and can switch. There are all sorts of people trying to recover in different ways. I believe even talking about your issues is important and attending a 12step meeting is a step towards a SMART meeting or where ever you ultimately end up. Don’t hold off on getting the lower quality help if that’s easily available in your city, take advantage of it, move on to therapy or other options if you need them. Many of the things that the religious people in these groups do aren’t really about asking god to fix them, but it’s more of a mindset, about being willing to get help for things you don’t know how to help yourself, and that’s a key to so many of life’s problems. There’s no easy way to substitute the god stuff, mostly it’s an orientation where most people open themselves up to become receptive to answers they don’t have already but I understand why people might find that disempowering, or why it might keep people trapped coming back to meetings. It could become additive in itself. I suggest you embrace your inner pagan and let your demons out pray to Satan the great for healing from demonismo it just depends on whether you can suspend a little belief and still get help from what is basically just a bunch of guys who don’t necessarily care a lot about the divine themselves (each group is different).
  11. Samuel

    Things Atheists Post On Facebook

    So true. I think about this a lot. So happy to be an atheist and grow my appreciation of life than worship the imaginary and afterlife to come. I just find more and more that life is able to ring true though I don’t have all the answers, I hated comforting people with religious lies and parables, and I am loving letting an acceptance of life on its terms be all the comfort that I need. Its just all the lies and false bullshit expectations and past experiences of religious indoctrination that have to be scrubbed away, so a genuine appreciation of things can come.
  12. Samuel

    Leaving religious family

    For sure, I think what I’m getting at is that my mother is really religious. You would have to get into the teachings of the particular organization that I came out of but she sees her religion as inseparable and synonymous with life. There are practices within the organization that pretty much lead of person to try and be preoccupied with religious thought 24/7. So there’s just no middle ground to have a relationship and I think I’m just greaving that, coming to terms with it in a way. For me my deconversion is about also coming out as gay which my parents see as something that can be changed, or is not a big deal, they’ve held beliefs that are hateful towards gay people and really demeaning to me for my entire life. I get in this mindspace where I regret cutting off communication but I also know that all communication in the past was based on pretending that I wasn’t who I am (in many ways). I think part of it (not a therapist or anything) is that I’m struggling with those pieces of the relationship or just human decency that I’d like to honor but can’t because they are tied to so much disagreeable self-serving malice. I mean how do you say I’m sad that I can’t comfort you about my never having been happy growing up in the religion and leaving. Im definitely feeling some pain trying to break away and every time I try to negate my experience to make others feel better I feel worse. My father on the other hand is practically pathological in his authoritarianism. It’s hard for me the break out of the sort of authoritarian thought patterns that he laid out growing up.
  13. Samuel

    Leaving religious family

    Thanks, I really appreciate that :)
  14. I've been in the process of de-coversion for several years now. I think one of the hardest things for me has been separating my identity from my religious family and in particular their cult like religion. For the first time I think I am beginning to be able to see myself separately. And this has brought a lot more health into my life. One of the hardest things has been separating from my relationship with my mom who really doesn't have any identity outside the cult. She has been in the cult her whole life and I just don't have any way to have a secular relationship with her. Because of this its taken that much longer to realize that I just can't do it any more for my health. Time and time again she has used her place in my heart to push the ideals of their organization, its hard for me to explain really what it feels like to be used in this way. It feels really bad. I've been depressed lately, but I wanted to post this, since it seems close to progress. IDK.
  15. Samuel

    Freedom in Jesus

    Yeah, I get what you mean about people making major life decisions based on what others said. Its sickened me to see people make serious life decisions off of the advice my parents as leaders in their christian community. Did my mom go to college, no. Did my dad ever read ANY books other than the particular books from our religious organization, nope. I have literally been in the room, even while a christian, and just listened to terrible advice being given, assurances that should not have been passed down were passed down, and mostly just nothing burgers with the assurance of God because of their authority position. It upsets me a lot to think of how many people, especially young people, my parents have acted like god to. Its a mind trip, to get out from under that thinking that an authority figure should tell you what to do. Hence the fantasy requirement of a psych degree, or other qualification, which would make people conscious that they are overstepping boundaries, violating people's will (desires, motives, etc) and lying about the fundamental fact that people don't have ESP. One of the hard things for me in the aftermath is learning to trust myself, learning to assert where I didn't out of fears that I would have been disparaged for some spiritual crime.