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VerbosityCat last won the day on September 13 2018

VerbosityCat had the most liked content!

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About VerbosityCat

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    Strong Minded

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    dance, art, nature, mythology
  • More About Me
    Out of Christianity for 20 years. I like a little woo in my life but I have limits (Christianity would be but one example.) Not a fan of organized religion. Would describe myself as "spiritual but not religious" with a spirituality pointing in the direction of the Norse gods/myths. Open-minded to things like NDEs but not a "true believer" about it. I speculatively entertain many ideas but fully embrace only a few.

Previous Fields

  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    the old gods (Thor, Odin, Freyja, Tyr mainly)

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  1. I don't feel "pushed out". It's my opinion that this is an unhealthy space for spiritually minded Ex-C's. I am not a "victim". Nobody pushed me anywhere. All this language framing people do is in the first case of "only the strong survive" a manipulation strategy and in the second case "feeling pushed out" a way to make it seem as though I'm "complaining" and stating some "victimhood status". I don't claim any such thing. I am nobody's victim. I choose, of my own free will, to not engage and participate on a forum like this because I don't like what it is. Rather than try to push my will onto others to shift an environment that I'm not EVER going to like most likely no matter what's done, I am removing myself from the bullshit bottleneck. Any further comments anybody want me to actually respond to should be directed to me in private message because I'm out of all further commenting on this forum from this moment.
  2. I took about a week to decompress and think and I realize coming back and looking at some posts and such that... wow... I am PROFOUNDLY unhappy in this space. Like DEEPLY HOLY FUCKING SHIT I WOULD RATHER GO TO CHURCH unhappy in this space. I feel like it's toxic as shit to spiritual ex-C's and I would really encourage Ex-C's who are fully deconverted but still have a need for spirituality to just leave this space (which seems like it's really most functional as a TRANSITIONAL space rather than a permanent space to live), and find more healthy spiritual communities rather than exist endlessly in a space as a second class citizen in a "ghetto" where you feel obligated to self-reference as "woo" just to get materialists off your back. I apologize for using the word "woo" because I don't believe it at all. I don't believe my views are woo. I don't believe midniterider is woo. I don't believe any spiritual person on this space is "woo" but there is obviously a sense of psychological bullying here or else people wouldn't self-reference as 'woo' as some form of mental Judo to protect themselves from being constantly shrieked at by low-consciousness people who simply are INCAPABLE of referencing the world any way but the material. If that makes them happy, FINE, but why do they feel the need to even be IN this subforum. And also, what the fuck is up with this "only the strong survive Ex-C" shit? This is just emotional manipulation. Straight up. This is appealing to people's sense of themselves so that you can continue being shitheads to other people who don't share your views. You've run all the Christians off this forum except for the most obnoxious, like End. and so now the only people you have left to bully are spiritual Ex-Cs. But of course you'll disguise it as just wanting to have 'honest debate'. Fuck you. Nobody wants to fucking debate you. They just want to pursue their own spirituality without being constantly harassed with this dumb fucking garbage all the time. Seriously... get off the plantation Ex-C's. Obviously this is not going to become a subforum where materialists are just not allowed to engage at all... If you want to just be able to "talk to your own" about stuff that actually interests you, you need to find a healthier spiritual community elsewhere. As for me, I don't care what you say or think about me, I'm not going to stay in a space I consider unhealthy for me that makes me miserable just to prove how "strong" I am? (By this logic I should eat cheeseburgers all day every day rather than make healthier choices just to prove that I have freak genetics that can withstand such an assault on my physical health. I mean it's fucking retarded.) If you want to stop bleeding smart spiritual Ex-C's then give these people a REAL SPACE to themselves. Otherwise you'll only be able to hold onto the people you can successfully manipulate with your "survival of the fittest" tripe. If a creature tries to exist in an environment wholly unsuited for it... yes, it will not do well. Dolphins do not fly and crows do not swim. Acting as though dolphins should spend all their time trying to fly to prove they are "as strong as crows" is a functionally retarded viewpoint. Clean your house, or don't. Spiritual Ex-C's decide if this is the environment you really want to swim in. To quote the dolphins: So long, and thanks for all the fish.
  3. I just think it IS eternal and that you and I are eternal because we are part OF it, just not eternal in this state. And I have no idea what happens if it "wakes up". I'm talking possibilities not "this is the one true truth". I'm not the one stating how things MUST be or CAN'T be around here. take that up with the people who have decided my viewpoint is the result of someone who doesn't understand how natural selection works.
  4. This is not about "thick skin". To me that's a total bullshit argument so people allow themselves to be talked down to like little morons so they can "prove they are tough enough to endure it". If you were punching me in the face, should I continue hanging out with you? It's all fine and good to punch back, but if the next day you punch me again, should I just stick around for that? We encourage people in "abusive relationships" to get out of them. People are encouraged to leave Christianity here IN PART because it IS an abusive totalitarian little mind control cult. But hey, it's all fine and good for people to stay HERE because "only the strong survive". You can say that about ANY dumbass thing. Was I not "strong enough" to withstand the constant retarded bullshit of Christianity? So if I was SUPER STRONG, I would have "stayed in Christianity" just to prove my mind could handle being constantly assaulted by stupidity? I should just suffer in that because it proves I have a "thick skin" of some sort? How fucking weak is it to make your decisions about where you go and what you do based on if the other little lemmings think you have a "thick enough skin" to hang out in their precious presence? I'm thinking there are a lot of people here who never get out of their basement. These are such weak, emotionally manipulative arguments. I don't think you are an emotionally manipulative person, but this IDEA is totally manipulative. I have nothing to prove to you or this board. My happiness is de facto the litmus test I use to determine who I spend my time with. I DO enjoy the spirituality space (for now) but I'm not going to be bullied into this total manipulative nonsense about how "only the tough survive here" as though somehow I now need to give up all my freedom just for the approval of people who don't respect me anyway. (any time I spend here having stupid arguments is time I can't be doing something actually productive, useful, and satisfying in my life. This makes me a slave. When I'm not living MY life according to MY values and desires but instead living for the approval of some little trolls on the internet I would not consider that being "strong" by any definition that I actually have respect for.) Why should I give even the tiniest shit for the approval of people who treat me like I'm a functional retard because I refuse to spew out their dumb talking points? Give me a break. Anyway out for a week. Will be back (in the spirituality forum) around the first. We'll see how it goes. But this is just ONE example of the way people control each other and why it's so important to understand these little control mechanisms so people can't use them on you anymore.
  5. Also, I edited my last post so the version you read may not have been the final version that is now up.
  6. I don't need to change your mind. I don't care what you believe. Be free. Be you. But allow me that same opportunity.
  7. Ugh, I really am supposed to be taking a break LOL I just forgot something I wanted to tell a friend in PM, a book recommendation (Midniterider check your messages), but I want to take a moment to address this. We are speaking past each other. YOU are the type of person obviously who cannot be functionally happy and whole if you don't believe something is factually true. This is about the various value systems different people have. My highest value is freedom. Yours may be truth. The reason mine is freedom is because I think it's more functionally useful to be free than it is to be "right" because being "right" is even much more tenuous a proposition than being free is. Also it's impossible for me to fight to be free and fight to be "right" at the same time. The latter ensconces me in pointless debates (like I've allowed myself to get sucked into on this site) and by definition reduces my freedom. (which is why I'm taking a week off and "resetting") I can't be free to the extent that I HAVE to be "right" because I cannot change how other people think/see the world. And they can't change how I think/see the world. It's that saying, a mind convinced against its will remains unconvinced still. So it really is POINTLESS to have these endless debates between the spiritual people and the nonspiritual people. Because neither side is changing their mind. One side can attempt to bully the other, but that is only a method of silencing, that's not a way of changing someone's internal wiring. I am what I am. You are what you are. I accept you as you are. I can't force you to accept me, but it doesn't matter because I'd rather be free (including free of the constant need to seek approval from those who disagree with me), than to be "right" And another part of this is... if the materialist is right... great... so they're right but what do you actually GET out of that. You surely don't get to say "haha I was right!" So I guess I understand why materialists so often feel compelled to argue in the here and now. Because if you can't convince people who disagree with you that you're right here, well, there is no other place you will get to "win". But ultimately it doesn't MATTER if I'm "right" or not. What matters is that I have a system that is functionally useful to me, that makes me happy, that helps me to develop into my highest self. Let me ask you this... would it be more useful for me to know the "truth" as you see it and be depressed and nihilistic and not accomplish anything in my life and live a quiet, fearful, sad little existence thinking "oh what's the point of anything?" Or would it be better for me to have the system of seeing the world I have which leads to me becoming a stronger more independent person and actually accomplishing my life goals? Which vision of a life has more value? See I just don't think "being right" has that much value if it's not functional for the person who is "right". There is just too much information and too much we can't know. Certainly we all live with a certain level of uncertainty and there are definitely things like Christianity we both reject out of hand, but I don't believe you are the type of person who could be happy as a spiritual person because of your value system. It's your recognition of your own value system that allows you to be happy. Like if you were MISERABLE right now with how you think about life... you'd find another way. And if you wouldn't, maybe that would be worth re-evaluating. Like why is "truth" (something which you actually can't really KNOW in any 100% objective sense about how everything works) more valuable than your own happiness? What value is a life lived for 'the truth' if every day of it is spent in utter misery and depression? Obviously this way of thinking does NOT result in your utter misery and depression, but if it did, you would find another way. That's my point. I'm not sure we're going to be able to communicate on this issue because you think you are operating from some totally objective place. You can't see your own biases and refuse to see them. To you you have THE TRUTH. And that's fine. You're welcome to it, but if you were MISERABLE, it wouldn't hold this high a value for you.
  8. I can tell you without a doubt I am 100% immune to returning to christianity. And here is the thing you should understand (and from reading your post, I really think you do)... if someone NEEDS a more spiritual way of viewing the world and you are trying to "protect them from themselves" by making them be "full atheists" then you are DENYING them something they need to be happy in life. So when life gets hard for them, they WILL be susceptible ironically to returning to Christianity. When shit gets hard for me... I don't turn to Christianity. I turn to the old gods. I figure out how my ancestors might have handled this. I call upon their strength and determination in order to strengthen my own. Heathenry is NOT about being a slave. It's about becoming strong and becoming the most potent version of who you are. It is not weakness. It is not slavery. It is not "mind control" (though some heathens ironically seem to want to dogmatize and codify this shit. Some personality types just CANNOT let others be free.) Christianity is so fucking foreign to that that there simply is no chance I would just wake up one day have a struggle and go back to bible god. I have an ENTIRE system I've built up around myself that RECOGNIZES my own nature and what I NEED to exist and function in this world and that has allowed me to supply that for myself WITHOUT a slave system like Christianity. So I appreciate you being forthright about this. It's something I've long suspected that there is this "fear" of people falling back into Christianity. But the truth of the matter is, those of us who simply ARE NOT ATHEISTS cannot function as such and it is HORRIBLY cruel to try to push people into a fully materialistic worldview if that is harmful to THEM as it is to push them into Christianity. Both are REALLY negative ways of seeing the world IMO. And pessimism is not an inherent virtue. Nor does a cynical way of viewing the world automatically mean you are a "smarter person". There are a LOT of dumb people who think they are smart by virtue of "being atheists" but they don't have a sophisticated philosophy, they're just parroting things smarter people than them have said. Like Christopher Hitchens? He was brilliant. The average atheist, though, is just as much a mind-controlled programmed slave as any Christian. As evidenced by the sheer dogmatism and inability to think any thoughts they were not programmed to think. I can no more be an atheist than a crow can be a dolphin and when atheists PUSH AND PUSH for this all it does is alienate spiritual people. I am not being harmed by my belief system. In fact one of the boundaries I've set is to constantly re-evaluate and if some way of thinking is harming me, making me unhappy, or making me less free, I re-evaluate it. I have a SYSTEM IN PLACE to deal with this. It's pretty insulting to treat grown adults like children who can't be trusted "not to fall back into Christianity". As well meaning as it is, it's misguided because if you deny spiritual people the right and space to be and develop a spirituality that works for them, you actually are not protecting them from returning to Christianity, you are practically guaranteeing it, by setting up a black and white situation in which it's christianity vs atheism. Where do you think the spiritual person will go from there? And thank you, you have NO idea how much it means to me to have someone like you acknowledge that I AM free of that shit. And no, I am not in another cage. I take it as a point of pride that I fought my way to the old gods. This is not something enslaving me. It's my fucking family. It's my ancestors. It's the people before me who didn't have to deal with the shitshow of the modern world as it stands. Something I feel really and truly connected to. And I know I just mentioned this to another person, but SERIOUSLY, if there is one book anybody reads in their lifetime I really think it should be "How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World". That is also a book I use any time I find myself trapped in ANY boxes. And frankly if we gave every deconverting Christian a copy of this book, nobody would have to worry about them getting "sucked back in" because if you learn HOW mental processes work and HOW to determine who YOU are and what makes YOU free and happy, then no one can take that away from you but you. I'm much less free arguing with people on this board than I am with the old gods. I can tell you that right now.
  9. That's interesting. It's simply another way, though in which we are "not the same". Here is the thing... if Christianity had made you TRULY happy you would still be a Christian. You would have no reason to leave. Obviously it did not. Now, Christianity may have met a lot of emotional needs for you, but obviously it didn't allow for genuine happiness because you valued other things above the emotional high you may have once gotten in Christianity. It didn't allow you to be intellectually free. So you found your way out to something that made you happy. I presume you are not miserable in your current worldview. If you find that you are, you will either remain a slave to it or you will find a way to be some other thing or think some other way (as evidenced by all the spiritual atheists). Everyone has that way of being that is most natural and normal to them that makes them the most happy and fulfills the most number of needs for them. Materialist thinking may be that thing for you. It is not that thing for me. I am not in a cage because I think as I do. But I would be in a cage if I was pushed into thinking as you do. You would be in a cage if I could make you think as I do. It's okay to acknowledge we are really both free and following a path that makes us each happy. We are not the same. I truly believe that many people on this site would benefit from reading "How I Found Freedom In an Unfree World" By Harry Browne. He was a libertarian but the book is NOT about being a libertarian. But it is about teaching you how to be free and how to allow others that same freedom. It is about getting out of mental boxes and being true to who you actually are and not who you are pressured to be by whatever outside forces.
  10. If I give you a red ball and a blue ball and a yellow ball, you can SELECT one of these balls but you cannot select something until it exists to be selected for in the first place. I KNOW what natural selection is and I fucking know how it works. I'm just really done this this. Fuck it. Think whatever you want. It's not my concern. I'm about to take about a week off this site. When I return I'm' going to stay in the spirituality forum. This isn't because I cannot stand to hear "views that differ from mine". I can fully respect a materialist's right to hold that view. What I can't respect is someone who implies I'm some kind of functional retard because I simply do not view the world in the same terms as them. This EXTREME arrogance that leads someone to think they "know how everything works". It isn't just a model that "works for them". No, it is THE TRUTH, and anyone who doesn't accept it will be seen as "lesser". Fucking fine. I will stay in the spirituality forum exclusively when I return so that I can have productive conversations about shit I actually want to talk about instead of constantly trying to get closed minded people to open their minds the TINIEST crack to even accept the POSSIBILITY that there are alternatives that might be true. Being in the spirituality forum only, is really the only way I can be on this forum and not be fucking miserable as shit. And if I'm miserable I may as well not be here at all. Freedom is my highest moral value. Arguing with people here is not making me free and it's also disrespecting the freedom of others to just believe whatever they want to believe. In my supposed high-minded ideal of simply wanting those leaving Christianity to not be forced into another mental slave box (Materialism or else, motherfuckers!), I am becoming the monster I hate. ANY ex-C person who is uncomfortable with this dogmatic materialism can SEE there is a spirituality forum and they can seek other viewpoints there. One of the greatest ironies of life is that you cannot force others to be free. Freedom seems like it is something "all people would want" but it is clear to me that people have to fight for their own freedom and free themselves and nobody else can do it for them. I am NOT saying Materialists "are not free". There are many people who believe "the material is all that is real" who are truly free thinkers. They ARE free, but many of them don't necessarily value freedom as highly as I do because they are not willing to let others have the same freedom they do to come to THEIR own conclusions. Instead they just want to browbeat until everyone meekly obeys. They want everybody to march in a straight line and think exactly as they do, or apparently the world will spin off its axis... or something. In my reaction to this, I am becoming the exact same way. So I'm just stopping that shit right now before I spiral out into becoming a complete caricature of myself. If someone is not happy in the materialist worldview but they feel themselves pressured intellectually to parrot all the same talking points, that's sad, but it's not my problem. Ultimately in this life we all have to free our own minds, and if we get too hung up with how we think someone else is "enslaved" we only re-enslave ourselves. And I won't be a slave for anyone. So I'm not willing to enslave myself into these dumb as shit discussions that are not productive for me on the off chance that someone who "feels pressured to be a materialist" isn't free.
  11. Re: this being a "debate zone", this somehow implies that people are obligated to argue shit to the bitter end, endlessly. And they aren't free to simply "disengage" if they find somebody tiresome. I'm not really that concerned with "changing people's minds". People can believe whatever dumb shit they want. And I DO think "the material is all that exists" is dumb shit. I don't have to "defend" this view unless I want to try to get other people to agree with me. Ultimately I don't really care. These kinds of discussions for me are more a proxy to allow people on the journey out of Christianity who come here for support to free themselves of THAT box to not become slaves in another box. Materialists who are super happy with their worldview, FINE, but the dogmatism that insists "WE ARE RIGHT, YOU ARE STUPID" is just another box. It's just another form of mental enslavement and quite frankly I don't see how it really fucking matters if you think unbelievers go to hell or if you think everybody just ceases existing because "I say so and used some math and handwaving to intimidate you into agreeing with me". Like why is one of these slave boxes more free than the other? It isn't. For free thinkers a lot of people here REALLY want to make everyone think exactly like them. I'm happy to allow materialists their space to exist. I'm not necessarily happy to let them enslave everybody around them into this sort of closed-loop way of thinking on penalty of intellectual and social ostracism. But in my "not being happy to just let that state of affairs be" I end up enslaving myself to ludicrous discussions with close-minded people and *I* become mentally enslaved. So in the end analysis, I'm not sure this site really is a place to "be free". This can be another form of slavery if you get too sucked in to certain modes of thinking. Either way, I'm wrapping up a few comments in a few threads, then I'm taking about a week away from this place to re-evaluate my own behavior because this "arguing endlessly over stupid shit" is not productive for me.
  12. Sorry, caught one other thing "I agree that random chance cannot create consciousness, but IMO the consciousness that we know of is derived from a long series of evolution." So what you're saying is... something that isn't possible randomly, somehow BECOMES possible randomly, if enough random shit accumulates together over a really long period of time that we can't actually prove or quantify in any other way except that we just don't like the implications of other theories?
  13. No, an eternal consciousness is not supernatural. No more than an eternal universe is. Do you really not see the hypocrisy of this argument? If the universe can be eternal, a consciousness can be eternal. And no consciousness is not supernatural. I have a consciousness. You have a consciousness. Are you saying you and I are "supernatural". Supernatural is a nonsense word that doesn't mean anything. If something exists it exists. Claiming something is "supernatural" and then by definition it doesn't exist because Supernatural is the magic word that makes something imaginary is just some weird "word magic" materialists do. It doesn't work on me. And yes, I accept evolution happened. What I don't accept is that it happened just "Randomly". Where did all the new information come from? Like we have mutations and natural selection but in order for a thing to mutate there has to be A THING to mutate. If you say every mutation is an addition of totally new information and greater complexity that didn't exist before... where did it come from? I just don't think this works without consciousness. I know that's not what materialists want to hear. Also, no, an eternal consciousness would not be "outside of nature" it would be simply "part of what exists". Is YOUR consciousness outside of nature? If you only accept as possible the things you can CURRENTLY test, then you aren't really interested in the truth. You're interested in the truth tiny peon humans are capable of knowing. Plus scientists are already positing and trying to find ways to test a conscious universe. AND string theory, bubble theory, multiverses, parallel universes, extra dimensions and all the other crazy shit of quantum physics is 100 percent unprovable and unfalsifiable. And yet that's not "supernatural". Funny double standards here.
  14. Sorry one more thing... You all are SO fond of claiming that the simplest solution is usually the correct one. So we're just going to pretend a conscious universe is NOT the simplest solution to this whole thing? Okay.
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