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About Noahccount

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  • Location
    West central Pennsylvania, more or less
  • Interests
    Religious study. Linux. Gardening.
  • More About Me
    Searching for answers but finding more questions than answers usually.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    I think there is, but has to be a supreme lurker.
  1. The internet and mass media might have a bigger impact on the grand church this go-round, we can only hope. On the other hand though, I sat in the waiting room at the hospital yesterday while my wife had bunion surgery and a middle-aged woman sat next to me polishing her rosary beads like there was no tomorrow! That church isn't going to die easily or quickly.
  2. "hiding it for so long", Church scandals involving priests, bishops and other officials have happened since almost the very beginning of the Universal Church. Do a search on the scandalous histories of even the popes and you'll find some doosies! Does the church lose some followers? Sure, but for every one that leaves, there are many more born to fervent followers that are indoctrinated from birth into the church. The Vatican knows its stood on shaky ground many times before and by waiting, the storm blows over and they change something in their operations to address the problem, not always a good program, but as long as they can hoodwink some followers, they are assured of a new generation of followers. Most consider the god of the old testament to be cruel, but by demanding the extermination of those who were conquered, it would have been nearly guaranteed that their religion would end and no longer be a problem. Rome on the other hand was an old fashioned Borg, they assimilated the cultures they conquered and were ultimately destroyed by them from the inside. That old, cruel god was actually pretty smart.
  3. Noahccount

    Bible Verses

    These might be worth a shot; In Acts 1, the remaining apostles prayed and voted on a replacement for Judas. The replacement was Matthias. That adds up to 12. In Revelation 21, John, quoting Jesus, states that there will be 12 foundations of the new Jerusalem, one for each of the 12 apostles. Show where anyone, other than Paul, stated that he was an apostle. Romans 11:26 Paul writes "as it is written" describing how the Messiah will come FROM Zion to remove sin. Nowhere is that to be found. Instead, Isaiah 59:20 states that a redeemer will come TO Zion and to those who turn from transgression. Explain why the 13th of the 12 'real' apostles reversed the original verse and its meaning, which happens to be the basis of the entire New Testament. Ask her if the Word of God is true and perfect. She will say 'Yes', of course. Psalms 19:8 and many other verses state that this is true. The 13th of the 12 'real' apostles says in Hebrews 8:7 that if the Word had been perfect or faultless, there would be no need for the second one, or the New Testament. Try these out for starters, and good luck. There are several others, but these should either start the thinking process or cement the conviction that Christianity is the one true way. Rejection or twisting of evidence is the primary focus of 'Cognitive Dissonance', a very real phenomenon caused by indoctrination, brainwashing, the overall cult culture of most religions. You may not be able to break through this. If you do, then look up RTS, Religious Trauma Syndrome. That will give you some aid in dealing with someone who has been pushed into decontruction or deconversion. Modern Psychiatry has finally begun to recognize the effects of religious indoctrination. The kicker though, is finding a therapist who has heard of this and subscribes to it. Again, good luck, and be gentle.
  4. Noahccount

    I can't take no more!!

    I've read a few authors, I know there are brazillions more. As for the supreme lurker, either there is one, or the universe is eternal and under constant recreation. If that's the case, then following the rule of random chance, we've all been here before, doing the same things before, and we'll be here again. Along the way, we've done almost exactly the same things before and we'll do similar things again. 'Course, that could explain deja vu, the premise of parallel universes etc. etc.
  5. Noahccount

    I can't take no more!!

    Thank you! Usually when I bring that little bombshell out I get a whole slew of 'Christian answers', until I bring out Big Bertha. In Revelations 21, that's John supposedly quoting Jesus remember(?), we find Jesus stating that there will be 12 foundations of the New Jerusalem, one for each of the TWELVE apostles. Just where the hell does Paul fit into that equation? This is one of two questions that finally blew my son's defenses out of the water (see my second post). The second question, and this one happens to be the 'H' bomb, being, Paul claims that the Messiah will come to remove sin (Romans 11:26) "as it is written" ... uhm, the way its written is Isaiah 59:20, the redeemer will come to those who turn away from transgression, not one word about removing sin. Paul reversed the entire meaning of Isaiah and used that to create a new god and a new religion, why, and how did humanity fall for this worldwide hoax?
  6. Noahccount

    I can't take no more!!

    I like the PDF in your signature! "I think, therefore I am, I think ... maybe!"
  7. Noahccount

    I can't take no more!!

    Yeasss! Those 'Christian' answers! I got my fill of the vague answers or the rephrasing of questions so they could be easier answered, or those flat-out "Hey! Look! A distraction!!" non-answers that shoot off into some weird other direction altogether!
  8. Noahccount

    I can't take no more!!

    Hello all. Thanks for the welcome. Like I said, I've had major problems with Paul all my life, maybe that prepared me for the final deconstruction. My wife was raised Seventh Day Adventist and was in and out of numerous churches all her life. I think the SDAs with their Sabbath observance and dietary restrictions set her up too. When I first 'came out' a few years ago, she was ... shall we say, concerned? Believe me, that's putting it mildly!! Our son was an evangelist. His hero was Paul. With my problems over Paul, I guess you can figure in a chuck of reverse psychology in his choice of hero. But when I officially 'came out' and rejected the NT, my wife and son were head to head with the questions I laid out, and there were many-several more than what I've listed. They got stumped and had to really think. My wife with her SDA background was the first to fall back on her heels and agree with me. Our son took a bit longer, but when pressed for truthful answers, he had to admit the truth. Today, a good 5 years later, my wife, son, three grandsons and ... get this (!) one grandson is married to a PK, a Baptist preacher's daughter have awakened! My wife and I are very good friends with her parents, we went to their church for many years! We're keeping this hush-hush from her parents, because she too has re-studied and attacked my questions and discovered she had to answer them contrary to the NT! If her parents caught wind of this, there's that wrath of Christians thing again!! And if it came from her parents, there'd be holy hell to pay!! The one thing we miss, sorta, is the community. We just can't join church activities any more, and the very few we did join into at first ended up leaving us either laughing up our sleeves or feeling very uncomfortable. On the other hand, we don't have to deal with the trauma-drama of Christians any more. Its absolutely amazing how nice and quiet things are now. Oh, we still get oodles of requests for prayer and such, but the "Thank U Jayzus" stuff has kind of disappeared.
  9. Noahccount

    I can't take no more!!

    Hey all. I was a Christian for a bit over 50 years. I'm 63 now, so I'm counting only part of my childhood. I finally deconstructed about 5 years ago. Before that I was a bad Christian; I asked questions. A Christian is supposed to be all about faith, prayer and the Holy Spirit, not questions and most especially not questions about Jesus, God and the mighty Paul. I saw early on that there were differences between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught. Why such differences? 'Those aren't differences, you're too young to understand'. OK, so years later I still see those differences and then some more. 'Those aren't differences, you need to pray to understand'. OK, more years and more prayers and I was starting to do the unthinkable, I was studying the 'old testament' to see if there were answers there. I found even more questions. 'Those aren't differences, you need to trust God and not question Him'. Hmm, 'new testament' has people just accepting what 'God' tells them while several times in the 'old testament' people question God and most of them are highly regarded by God. Why, one even wrestled with God and became a great patriarch. My questions, trimmed down somewhat were; Jesus said not one jot or title will pass from the Instructions until all shall pass. Paul said it was all done away with and nailed to a cross. God's prophets said the Law, Teachings, were perfect and unchanging. Paul said they weren't perfect and had to be changed. The apostles and Jesus clearly stated that there could only ever be 12 apostles. One was appointed to replace Judas. Paul became the 13th and no one else in the NT other than Paul claims he is an apostle. Blood is needed for a proper sacrifice according to the NT. According to the OT full physical, mental and spiritual repentance is all that's required, blood is mentioned, but several times its made clear that blood alone won't cut it. Why do we have a three god-head god, like the Romans with their Holy Triad of pagan gods? As I studied for answers I kept getting more questions and every time I asked someone, I got Christian answers ... Christian answers that weren't satisfying. The big one was Deuteronomy 30. Is the word too hard to understand? Is the word too hard to obey? I had to really think about that. I knew that I knew the answers, I just couldn't accept them without dealing with the 'new testament' differences and you can't deal with that without incurring the wrath of God and worse, the wrath of Christians. Wait, what did I say? Who's wrath is worse? In comes YouTube and other internet sources. I started a different venue of study. Lots of hogwash. Lots of 'my way or the highway'. Lots of just loony BS. Finally, after a lot of halfhearted listening I started to hear some stuff from a few Rabbis that were talking about the 'new testament'. Rabbis talking about the 'new testament'? What would a Jew have to do with that? I heard the questions I had been asking for decades. I heard answers that I knew I had come up with, but was too afraid to acknowledge. I have to deny the apostle Paul. That's heresy! I have to deny Jesus. That's worse than death, that's eternal torture. No, first step is to deny the fear that Christianity drills into each of its victims. I finally realized that Christianity is a cult. When I tossed that fear, denying Paul, then denying Jesus was actually a great release. I owe a great deal to Rabbis Michael Skobac, Tovia Singer, Stuart Federow and Chaim Coffman. I also found some great former Christians along the way such as Jono Vandor of SpiritualBabies, Jason (?) of Truth2U and William Hall of Tenak Talk. Along the way, I studied the Babylonian Talmud, after all, Paul supposedly studied at the feet of Gamaliel, a student of the great Hillel. I saw clearly that if Paul had studied at the feet of Gamaliel, he obviously studied only the dirt under Gamaliel's toe nails. There's no way Paul learned any Talmud. I studied other material from the Oral Tradition and found it to be notions, fables and mumblings of idiots mixed with some really good information from serious and thoughtful godly men. Mainstream Judaism, Orthodox and Conservative, rely very heavily on the Oral Traditions. I can't. So, I'm for sure not a Christian and I can't-won't convert to Judaism. That puts me somewhere in the middle. I'm either a Noahide or a Samaritan, but maybe a Karaite. I guess that makes me a Noahccount.