Kat34

Regular Member
  • Content Count

    46
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

16 Neutral

About Kat34

  • Rank
    Doubter

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Female
  • Location
    UK
  • Interests
    Spending time with my family, reading, psychology
  • More About Me
    I’m 34, live in the UK, have a toddler and a newborn.

Previous Fields

  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Not actively. I’m now agnostic.

Recent Profile Visitors

82 profile views
  1. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    That’s good that your dad was open to discussion about different ways of seeing things. It’s frightening how fixed people can be. I wonder if they realise how unappealing they can make their faith seem.
  2. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    @Stargazer95 thank you, that’s really helpful. Yes I can imagine those passages might not get preached about in church much!! Do you mind if I ask what your Christian background is/ was, was it very Evangelical/ fundamentalist or a bit less extreme?
  3. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    @wadori thank you for your thoughts, you’re right it would definitely be helpful to meet like minded people. Thanks also for sharing your clearly very long thought out reasons for not believing. The only thing I’d say is that I’m coming from a less fundamentalist perspective than the rest of this online community, so most of the Christians I know would accept evolution as a reality and not take all of the stories of the Flood etc. literally. So sometimes I think maybe I haven’t given it a fair enough hearing, but for me I can’t get past the idea of original sin and of hell, which they do believe in, even if they don’t think it is a lake of fire. @Weezer I don’t know why a teaching about original sin would be needed, surely it’s enough to talk about universal sin and that all of us fall short (it’s easy to see that all of us do wrong things, after all), without needing to make it something inherited? I’ve been thinking about morality in the absence of a Christian framework. Why do you think it is, given the principle of survival of the fittest, that most people care about protecting the weak and vulnerable? I’ve also got a question about the OT and the violence that’s often raised as an objection. Bear in mind I’ve not actually been part of a Christian community for a long time and don’t actually know the bible all that well... how do people from different Christian traditions explain god sanctioning or committing the violence that’s described? I always remember my mum talking about context whenever I might struggle with something in the bible and she would then explain it to me, but I can’t remember what the explanation was for this. I know Christians must have one though.
  4. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    I came across this earlier today in one of Valerie Tarico’s articles and it really resonated. According to the Christian message, my beautiful baby girl and her older brother were born, as the default position, destined for hell. I feel the same way about that as the Hindu ladies described here.
  5. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    @Joshpantera @TruthSeeker0 Fab thank you, will check that out 😀
  6. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    Ooh what’s a discord chat group?!
  7. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    Thank you all of you so much. I have nobody at all I can discuss this with in person and it is a great help to me psychologically to have this community as a sounding board. Also because most of you are in the States and behind timezone wise, it means I often get your messages while I’m up with the baby doing the lonely night feeds and it’s nice to have that “company”!
  8. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    I think I need to explore this, thank you for reminding me. This afternoon I read some helpful articles by Valerie Tarico and might get her book too.
  9. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    This is where I’m at as of today: So far the only reasons I have to believe in god are what I’ve been told by adults, what it says in the bible (which I’ve been told by others is the word of god) and what I’ve read by Christian authors. Personally I’ve found god to be silent so I can’t even argue from my own experience. The world around me and my own sense of right and wrong could point to the existence of a creator god but I don’t know that. My morality actually causes me to find some biblical teachings and what some Christian authors have said to be true of god abhorrent and in conflict with my own understanding of love and right behaviour. Highly educated experts cast doubt on the claim that the bible can be the word of god. Equally educated people have tried to show otherwise. As a lay person it’s impossible for me to be able to form a decisive conclusion but the disagreement and lack of clarity seems a real obstacle. If god wanted us to be in no doubt that this is his word, surely that could have been achieved. Perhaps the reason I struggle so much is that I am not chosen by god and therefore can’t know him. Perhaps god has hardened my heart. If so then there’s nothing I can do about this. Some Christians justify this form of predestination by saying all of us deserve hell so the fact god chooses to redeem anyone is an act of grace. I can’t understand then why any of the damned would have been created in the first place; in fact there are very many things linked to this theme that I can’t understand. Or perhaps it is because of my own sinful nature that I can’t want to embrace Christianity (evidence aside) and that I struggle with so many of its teachings. But I can’t help my nature and I can’t help the mind that I have and the way that it works. I’ve asked god to help me with this but I still cannot find Christianity attractive or acceptable on the whole. My only motive for following it would be fear - the hallmark of an unhealthy relationship. Or maybe it’s because they aren’t conscionable things to believe (how do others manage it? Why aren’t they deeply distressed by them?) It’s hard to think that, if it’s true that one day this world will cease to exist and that there’s no god, all of human history and achievements won’t count for anything, there’ll be no future generations to enjoy them. But it’s harder to think that there’s a god that would create beings that end up suffering forever. The current lack of evidence outside what I’ve been taught by influential adults doesn’t mean I have an intransigent belief that there’s no god. If he clearly revealed himself to us then obviously I would believe, although if it was the Christian god then the aforementioned difficulties would remain unless they were answered in a way that made sense to me and brought me peace. If there is an omniscient god then he knows what my struggles are and I’ll have to hope that he understands. I still have fears that this could all be true and fears about god (because I can’t see him as loving as described in the bible), about the end of the world, about my every thought, word and deed being known and judged and about hell. I fear not only for myself but for my children, my husband, my brothers, my friends, my family, for humanity in general. The conditioning in childhood has run very deep and has massively complicated this whole question for me as I’ve found it impossible to separate it from my subsequent search. I hope that one day either I’ll have an epiphany or these fears will resolve - for good.
  10. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    Have you ex fundamentalists seen this before?! Got it from a link from this article, which blames a literalist interpretation of the bible on bringing about a crisis in faith. https://postbarthian.com/2018/03/14/david-bentley-hart-paul-denied-historicity-old-testament-1-corinthians-10-11/ This was a result of me doing lots of reading up (favourable and otherwise) on David Bentley Hart, a critic of the “new atheists”.
  11. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    I have a degree in history too, just very little knowledge of this time and place. I have an appreciation for historical methods and realise that ultimately historians have to deal in probabilities based on the evidence. I read the Strobel books as a teenager, when I did believe, and even then I could see how hugely biased they were! I’ve not revisited them since for that reason. An example of something I find tricky: Ehrman claims that there are lots of variations in the 5000+ copies of the NT that exist. Another scholar (can’t remember who but think it was a secular one?) said that he overstates his case here. I have no idea who is correct! Price, I know, argues that it’s unlikely Jesus actually existed. This seems to be a minority view amongst scholars on both sides and is something he’ll never be able to conclusively argue for, so I’m happy accepting that Jesus did exist. What I don’t know is how far to trust Price on other matters - for example when he critiques Boyd and Eddy, who I have read in the past. I’m not sure I buy the idea that people like Ehrman and Price don’t also have a lot to lose by being wrong. They are known for having renounced their faith and have subsequently built careers around showing why the bible is not the word of god. I think it’s entirely plausible that they might, even inadvertently, overstate their cases or write as if something is true when actually it’s just a hunch or a personal theory. @TruthSeeker - that’s interesting that you didn’t feel the need to examine everything. It suggests you were far more sure than I was that Christianity is false. Was this mainly based on your own moral objections to its teachings? I certainly have these, I guess I just struggle to trust that they are evidence it isn’t true. I still have an underlying fear of a god who I maybe misunderstand because of my own imperfect sense of morality or whatever. But yes, if god were real I’d hope he would help me with my fears and struggles, and have certainly asked him to a number of times over the years.
  12. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    I don’t disagree, there are a number of aspects of Christianity I find extremely problematic. My concern is that that doesn’t mean it isn’t true and maybe I just have a really imperfect understanding of such things and that’s why they seem so objectionable. I’ve been trying to educate myself on biblical history and not getting anywhere because I can’t find consensus... without being an expert how does anyone know who to listen to?!!
  13. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    Thank you, that’s a really helpful scale. I wasn’t familiar with it. I was reading another thread on here and somebody had commented that their experiences had almost make them wonder if predestination was true. Well that would explain god’s silence and why Christianity hasn’t been attractive to me and in that case there’s nothing I can do about any of it!! I mean it would be wholly unfair but hey all part of the mystery of God 🙄
  14. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    Thank you. I’ve been listening to Bart Ehrman this morning which has been an interesting perspective to compare with the Robert Price Jesus myth perspective. I absolutely agree that certainty can’t be possible. I just kind of feel like I’m not sure which way I’ll end up leaning yet... but you’re right that I don’t need to know that yet.
  15. Kat34

    Recurring fears

    I think I’m still at the stage where I don’t feel certainty. As Josh referenced, I kind of swing between the positions. I know that there are many Christians who say they believe what they do based on evidence. My experience of Christians may be different from lots of the people here; not all but the majority I’ve known have been reasonable and rational people, not hugely conservative, who accept there are differences in interpretation of the bible in particular areas but agree on the central theme ie the Resurrection. And they believe they have evidence to support their belief. So the fact there are people who have presented evidence for the truth of Christianity and people who have presented evidence against it causes me to think it’s reasonable to explore and try to critically evaluate both sides, because the consequences are potentially so significant. The difficulty is knowing how far to take this before feeling like a decision can be reached!