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About wadori

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    Eugene, Oregon
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    Writing, dancing, outdoors, games
  • More About Me
    Grew up in New England in a fundamentalist background. Followed fundamentalism for a few years after I became an adult, but found it just didn't work. Now have interest in science, the environment and social justice.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?

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  1. wadori

    Most disturbing book ever written

    The interesting thing is that I believe both the atheists and the fundamentalists would like to see the Bible at the top of the list.
  2. wadori


    "No man should be in politics unless he would honestly rather not be there." - Henry Adams
  3. wadori

    Site mechanics

    Oh, thank you. But is there not a page that explains how it all works?
  4. wadori

    Site mechanics

    "Got questions about ... how to use the features on this site? Just ask!" Yes, that's what I have. I made a post yesterday with a mistake in it and wanted to go back and correct it, but I can't see any way to go back in a make a correction to a post if necessary. Also, I would like to be to "like" or "react" to posts like other people do, but I do not see any way to do so. Is there a page somewhere the site that explains the mechanics of how to use the site? (I hunted around but couldn't find one if it's here.)
  5. wadori

    Intelligent Design

    Sorry, " I always remember this when it gets misaligned (from disk pain I whine). " The parenthetical "from disk pain I whine" doesn't belong there. I copied from my original unedited version. If anyone knows how to go back in and edit a posting after submitting it please let me know.
  6. wadori

    Intelligent Design

    I just posted this song/poem at another site. Thought I would share it here also: INTELLIGENT DESIGN Some people say we got here by intelligent design. That is why I have an appendix that just works so fine. My windpipe and esophagus in my throat are combined, So I choke if I'm not careful, so great was the design. My backbone is so wondrous and perfectly designed. I always remember this when it gets misaligned (from disk pain I whine). My legs which are so nimble could not have come by chance. Otherwise I would not be able to learn how to dance. It can't be evolution - we are just too complex. That is why we cry "Oh god!" when we are having sex. We believe that things all came from intelligent design. That's why we keep our intelligence down in our behind. CHORUS: Intelligent design. That is how we got here. If you ask me that designer has some ideas a lot queer.
  7. wadori

    Am I An Atheist now?

    I believe I qualify as an "atheist", and I agree that there could be "something ‘out there’ which is the source of life or the universe", but I think that the chances of that are about 1 in 1 x 10666, so I will continue on in my "atheism" until I hear that there is some actual evidence to support it. Actually, I don't really like the label "atheist". What that tells you is what i don't believe, not what I do believe. I believe in a rational, investigative approach (i.e. science) to understanding the world and the universe around us. Therefore, I would describe myself as a "scientist", not indicating my vocation, but rather the belief system that I go by. I would encourage you to not worry about whether you are truly an atheist or not. I doubt that anyone here or at any other atheist site or group is going to challenge you on it. If you want to call yourself atheist, okay. If you want to call yourself agnostic, okay. But use a positive label to refer to yourself that tells people what you do believe, not a negative one that tells people what you don't believe. And enjoy all the atheist, agnostic, scientific or whatever else websites or groups you feel comfortable in associating with.
  8. wadori


    Wow. That's not an easy one to answer. I guess I was a little bit different in that I don't feel I "ended love" with anyone. For me god just wasn't ever there, so it seemed there was no "relationship" to end. However, it wasn't by any means easy to leave. It was "hell," as a matter of fact. The whole basis for my life was gone. Even if my religious beliefs didn't amount to anything real, to end them left me with just nothing. Having nothing as the basis of your life rather sucks. A Christian friend asked me one day a while after I had left, "Are you any happier?" I don't remember how I responded, but if I was truthful I said, "No. I'm less happy." Before I had had direction and purpose in life, and now I had nothing. Not only that, but I was all alone in the world. When you belong to a church or Christian group of some sort you have a "ready-made" community. You don't have to worry about being all on your own for the weekend. You have friends, people to do things with, people to talk with, people to support you. When you leave it all you have to start all over and try to build something from scratch. It's not easy, and I can't say that I have done very well at it, but I know I can't go back to trying to believe in what is obviously a bunch of superstition. I don't believe in what makes me happy; I believe in what is true. The fear of hell is a strong emotion. Once it is engrained into you it is hard to get away from it. I wish I had a secret "pill" that would do the job, but I think most would agree with me that it can take years to get over that fear. No matter what our rational minds might tell us, once it is engrained into us it is difficult to get over it. I can only say to read and talk to people who take a rational approach, and over time you will get there. I would point out one or two things in regards to the concept of hell. If you read the Bible you find that, although the word "hell" is used in the Old Testament (at least, in the old King James version), nowhere does it say anything about a place of eternal torture in a lake of fire. There is no lake of fire until you get to the New Testament. If there is such a horrible place to be avoided wouldn't god have told all the people that lived back before Jesus' times? Why would he withhold that information from his "chosen people"? And, of course, there is the old argument that how can a loving god send someone to be tortured forever? It may be an old question, but still valid. Or perhaps more pointedly, how can god send me to suffer forever in a lake of fire for not believing in him when he refuses to even let me know that he exists? If I were god and had even the slightest bit of love in me I wouldn't hide up in heaven and expect some old book that was written under questionable circumstance and adopted under even more questionable circumstances to save people. I would want to make sure that they at least knew firsthand about me. I just cannot conceive (now that I have been away from religion for years) that a god could act that way. I mean, he just couldn't unless he was the very essence of evil and hatred. You wouldn't act that way, would you? Are you better than god (i.e. the concept of god that you have held)? So there are a couple of thoughts about this concept of hell that I hope will help alleviate your fears to some degree, but I'm sure it will still take a while before you can feel that you are rid of those fears. The idea of hell is ridiculous, but that doesn't necessarily alleviate all our fears. I have sometimes wished I could be "Spok" and not be pestered by unfounded emotions, but that is not reality. Hang in there though, and you will get there. Yes, you will feel hollow and empty for a while. I know I did. But don't feel "guilty" for "breaking up with" god. He "broke up with" you first, that is, he wasn't there. If he is going to just leave you high and dry then don't feel guilty. (I write this as if he existed, which, of course, he doesn't.) Don't blame yourself. Put the blame where it belongs, on those who convinced you to believe in a magical being, using the unfounded and ridiculous threat of eternal torture to get or hold you there. You can't blame god, because he doesn't exist, but you can blame religion. That is where the blame lies, not in you. Wish I had more to offer to be helpful, but I wish you the best of luck in your new journey.
  9. wadori

    Mountain Moving Challenge

    Yes, but wouldn't it be fun to taunt them? We got to have some fun once in a while.
  10. I have a vision! I think we should set up a prayer meeting in front of a mountain and challenge (i.e., taunt) all the preachers across America to come and help us move the mountain (by prayer, of course, as Jesus said would happen) so that we can build Mountains of Faith Christian University in its place. I'm sure there will plenty of televangelists anxious to come and show the power of prayer, don't you think?
  11. wadori

    Those old fashioned feeling's

    You seemed to be a little unclear as to exactly what those "religious feelings" are, but if you want to pray, go ahead and pray. No, it won't do any good, but it won't do any harm either (and nobody from this forum will see you doing it!). I think over time the feelings that trouble you will subside. It's difficult when you first make a major transition, such as in the basic belief system of your life. I used to worry all the time about, "What if I am wrong and really am going to go to hell?" I've come along far enough now to not worry about such things. It is so obvious that the Bible and other religious beliefs are just a bunch of myths. But it has been 30 years since I left the faith. Hopefully, it won't take you that long to get past them, but don't let the religious feelings get the best of you. Just recognize that you will have them, and keeping on living a life of honest questioning.
  12. wadori

    How can I deconvert my mother?

    I have often wondered how I could have handled things better when my father was alive, including challenging his religious beliefs. On one level I agree with those who say you shouldn't even try and just let each person be his own. However, I don't think that would be a good answer in my case. (And I would disregard the comment about minding your own damned business (sorry RedNeckProfessor). Your relationship with your mother or other family is very much your business.) My father essentially "hid behind" his religion. He was like a rock or a machine who just functioned every day and didn't seem to have any depth of person. Although religion may not necessarily be the reason for this, it gave him the excuse to hide behind. I rather feel like I never knew my father, and wish I could have gotten through to the "real person" before he died. This doesn't quite sound like your situation, but whatever your reason, you just have to decide whether what you hope to gain is important enough to make the effort. What I feel I should have done while he was living was simply to question him more, "Why do you believe what you believe (as opposed to the thousands of other belief systems out there)?" being probably the most important question, and not let him simply get away with superficial answers. Unfortunately, I had barely been "deconverted" myself when he died, so I never really got the chance to do this, so I can't tell you whether it would have done any good. I can only tell you the loss I feel for never having "gotten through to" him. I guess the only other thing to offer is my 30+ reasons that I have posted at my website for why specifically I do not believe in god or religious crap: http://www.wardricker.com/whynogod.php. You can use any of those points in your discussions if they are of any help. Good luck.
  13. wadori

    How to share deconversion with spouse

    Sorry, haven't been there and don't have any real suggestions. I would only give my opinion that you definitely should tell him, and not just let it "leak out" as it did in Lerk's case. Otherwise, it might seem that you have been hiding stuff from your spouse, which would not contribute to a most wonderful relationship. I guess just a simple "announcement" in a gentle, quiet fashion (not being "preachy") would be the thing. The thing that rather surprises me here, though, is that apparently you haven't been asking any questions as you were going along during this deconversion process, at least, not in your husband's presence. Not a criticism, but it just does seem a little strange when spouses don't talk about such weighty matter when they are going through them. On the other hand, perhaps it is better if you didn't, or he might have made the process much more difficult if he is the argumentative kind. So, for what any of that may be worth, if anything, good luck!
  14. Yeah. I agree. I don't think we should rule out Satan until we get his official response!! 😉
  15. It's saddening that we never seem to learn. If only we (in the U.S.) had thrown some of those bankers who caused the previous mess in the slammer for a good long while (like they did in Iceland) I think it would have gone a long way toward preventing another blowout.