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Myrkhoos

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Myrkhoos last won the day on October 27 2019

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About Myrkhoos

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    Strong Minded

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    reading, philosophy, foreign languages
  • More About Me
    Film school graduate from Romania, wandered through monasteries, had and have some psychological problems.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    I have no idea

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  1. It is very interesting on that note how certaib mustics try to "see " the more pantheistic God in the Bible. A lot of mental gymnastics were and are necesary. But christianity just seems to me - i am not an expert - like a soup of very different ideas which do not really belong together.
  2. I am sorry but your answer denotes a total lack of knowledge in psychology and the psychology of religion/ cults in particular. What you feel is obvious might also be wrong. Many people fimd it obvious that God exists and would have the exact same answer of well all atheists would agree to theism if they were honest enough. You should study the overwhelming cult / mind control literature done by psychologists and neurologists on how choices can and are influenced. By the way thinking that everything is just your choice is an extremely CHRISTIAN idea, and is really frowned by modern neuroscience. Read and hear robert sapolsky, atheist neuroscientist. It also called fundamental attribution error in social psychology. You seem to think you are a free thinker and invulnerable to group think. You are not. If you are then you are probably a psychopath with neurological problems unable to emotionally connect with others and be influenced by others. Please get down of your high horse and join us mortals with faulty reasoning and biases all around. But maybe you think you are one of the chosen who has acces to absolute truth and all others are weak and/ or stupid not to see it. Well then...who else has simplistic absolute certainty with a dash of self importance? I wonder. No offense to you as a person, but your line of thinking is demeaning and demonstrably wrong.
  3. I do not know what you SHOULD do. How could I? I do not know your situation. My answer was that influencing people is possible and can be worthwile. If this was not the case then there would be no exit counselors for cults, and there are many. And if you read my answer carefully , I do say having a craft in doing so is essential. Could I start building a bridge? No. Could a bridge engineer along with a team and equipment? Yes. Even in your case maybe and expert psychologist could do the job so that your parents feel grateful and happy. How are you so sure the result would be terrible? Based on what expertise? I admore your desire to not do harm. And so if YOU TRIED BY YOURSELF it would be harmful. But if you tried surgery on them it would also be harmful. Just because we cannot do it does not mean it could not and should not be done.
  4. I actually think you can influence someone s decisions. And the whole idea of marketing and sales does exactly that. But is a craft in itself. I mean there are pick up artists who routenely pick up girls with no clear previous openness. Like sometimes you just begin incrementally. First say something like wel i like this pastor but not that pastor or smth like that to make them doubt church authority even a little. I disagree with most posts here. It is possible and worthwile , not certain for sure BUT and this is a heavy essential BUT , it takes time patience and most off all craft mastery of persuasion.
  5. You are using very broad and loaded language. Convert, atheism, etc. I think more narrow and neutral questions could be better adressed. Like - How could I inspire some christians to study biblical criticism? Or how to test some hypothesis? Or, to inspire them to study modern psychology and neuroscience? ...those things. There is a book , by Steve Hassan, on the subject of getting loved ones out of cults. Although it is not a manual for general deconversion, there are some pointers on how to empower and help individuals trapped in high demand groups. And the International Cultic Studies Association has members and articles about this. Rachel Bernstein, psychotherapist, has a podcast Indoctrination on the subjects of cults and mind control. There are actually lots and lots of information now. Search ex cult member sites, ex Jehovah witnesses , ex Mormon, etc. You can contact experts from ICSA for actual professional help on this subject. Christian Szurko, a Christian, has a center in England the dialogue center, about getting people out of dangerous groups. He could help you maybe at least inspiring your family /friends to become more liberal. Some ideas from those sources. 1.Become a mini expert on the subject and have a ready made list of sources from certified experts - theology ( from different Christian sects and confessions, and I would include Islam here) history, philosophy, psychology, - again from fundamentalists to militant anti theists. 2. Become, if possible, a model in compassion, asertivity, etc, leading a fulfilling life. So if they will be inspired to ask questions, seeing your life and knowledge, creating cognitive dissonance about any threats they might have internalized about apostates and non christians - violent, aggresive, lustful, stupid, illogical, insane, etc. I actually admire the idea of evangelising and missionary work, as a thing. If you have discovered something good, why not propagate it? This idea of live and let live I think is too overrated and exaggerated. I would not like to let live a sect of religious prostitution like there still is in India today where young poor girls are forced into it. Sometimes, forcing others to behave is the only way, when other means of persuasion have ended. And if we do not challenge our ideas, how can we grow in knowledge? And about your brother, maybe you could actually tell your parents about cults and Christian cults. They surely think that Jonestown and Waco were a destructive cult, so maybe you could collaborate on this subject with them. But do remember that Christianity has along history of glorifying martyrdom. Dying while serving the Lord meant instant eternal Heaven. So yeah, be careful. But influencing others to be more logical and open is possible.
  6. By way of education. Steve Hassan , Janja Lalich and especially Gillie Jenkinson. All other cult related experts too. They all talk about some kind of pseudo identity and phobia indoctrination as well as advice to cure. Sorry if I repeat myself. By the way there is a lot of similiraties between this and relationshop with a controlling abuser. It matters less if the God image was or not real, YOU believed he was real, so some aftermath is similar to other kinds of controlling relationships. One example of ancient fear indoctrination. Aztrcs thought that if they stopped sacrificing ppl the sun would stop moving. Many moder day orthodox think that stopping performibg the lithurgy aka the symbolic human sacrifice and ritual cannibalism, the devil will come and the end of the world will begin. And OCD patients feel that if they will not wash their habds 8 times in the morning something bad will happen. Just saying, things DO LOOK awfully similar.
  7. I got into deep doubt about christianity or the version I was served because of Hell. The God image of my church seems like a manipulating narcissist , a projection of a ruthless psychopathic tribal chieftain to me. If there such a reality or being as God I refuse to thing he is a cosmic bully hell bent on power in that way.
  8. I know this desire to absolutely know everything before you reject it. It is a variant of the need for total certainty, I think. Alas, that does not seem to be possible for humans, ot at least now. I thought like this. Christianity says that God is a being with infinite knowledge and power who has created me. As such, it is his responsability to show me exactly what I need so I can believe, not mine, a limited being with biases and prone to error. So to repeat, I think it is not MY duty to study christianity fully, it is GOD s responsability to show me exactly what is the truth. - altough I actually like studying church history and the psychology of christianity in particular and religion in general. It just seems fascinating to me. About morality. - Does that mean how to behave towards others? Well this seems to come also from a short study of your biology. You probably feel the need for safety and connection, as do most mammals. So act in a way that brings that to you, most probably, and so you can live in a society that brings more safety and affection/connection. If you steal/lie/cheat/kill without discrimination, it obvious you destroy or damage your safety and connection with others. I think this sounds like a good principle. What brings safety and connection. Does exploiting others bring that? Obviously very little to my mind. Of course things, practically, are in the gray area, but so are things in christianity most of the day. That is way the ability to forgive, or another expression to let go of grievances, which involves processing pain and loss in a non harming manner, or not very harming manner is also necessary. And anyway there are, it seems, psychopaths who do not feel/think normally, even with the most strict teaching. I suspect, upon listening to some podcasts, that there is a problem with their neurology/brain. But those people would probably be killers and rapists and exploiters regardless of any religion/philosophy. The lack, it seems, the ability to feel certain kind of fear and connection, so lacking these main elements, only weird pleasures remain for them , like sexual pleasures, power, etc. These people need treatment and, if nor possible, confinement. It is possible you could benefit from certain kinds of therapy, by the way for these emotions/feelings.
  9. Ok, you are being asked to help sustain and propagate what you think is a lie. Let me put the situation in a different perspective. Al qaeda, the terrorist organisation, needs a musician to play their "bomb america" songs and because you had a very good friend who is now their captain they ask you to play. Would you do it? Probably not. Another question. Would any of your church community accept to hindu chants praising krishna just because some friendly neighbours asked them to for a birthday party ? Probably not. So the answer is clear. They are asking you to betray your conscience. THAT is immoral. And they are asking you to do things that they would not do so there is no reciprocation. They should feel guilt and shame not you. Plus they did not care enough about their God to learn music for him so consider your leaving as just punishment for their lack of devotion. The problem of morality could be put if, for example, you left religion and then decided to abandon your little children who still believe it and who are dependent on your for food and shelter. But your community is not any danger of basic survival needs being unkept if you leave. And by the way, pentecostalism seems to me of the more manipulative / emotionally draining of all christian branches. Even mainstream christians think they are out there.
  10. 8Well, this post might go unread but here I go. You say you are taking a step back. Does this mean just pausing the teaching on chastity and sex in general or other things as well? About the sex issue more broadly. It kinda depends on your worldview in general. I for one do not think consenting adults should be allowed everything but that is a different discussion. That is why ppl cannot really answer you. But just in case you return and are interested in secular points of view, you could try to find a therapist specialised in sex and romantic relationships so you can figure out the roots of your issues and some solutions. I repeat, from a particular secular therapy school standpoint. I do not live in the USA but moving to a big liberal city like those in California could also help. Ppl there seem to be very open, too open to my taste, about sex. LA is also the capital of porn for example.
  11. Well that is not my case. I think these are things which are hard to fully comprehend because many factors chip in and are very dynamic. I would like to say that for people who suffer from physical sexual abuse or any other really traumatasing interpersonal connection within the religious environment things rarely dissapear fast. It also depends on the depth of your devotion ( not to have some match here, i am referring to practical things like did you have a clerical position , time spent praying or preaching, etc) And as was said, on the current environment you are in. A small town in the south where the church is vital and all the folk know each other and you are basically alone is different from downtown New York. Also the type of church - small denomination or worlwide presence and histofical importance like the the Roman Catholics? Maybe even genetics and basic brain wiring. And etc.
  12. Of course they want that. Most christian faiths have the idea of 1. Exclusive acces to ultimate truth 2. The duty to proselityze. 3. Universal appeal This one of the reasons of their resounding succes layer copied by the christian sect that became its own separate religion, Islam. Non Christians are to be talked to in order to be saved, not let to run the country. I mean christian factions fought violently among themselves, with millions of deaths. The others...are unenlightened demonically influenced - every convert to orthodox christianity has exorcisms pre baptism enacted on him - people. Sometimes I think christian misions in Asia failed in antiquity because most asians already had universal religions and pretty broad and well functioning states. Christianity did not become prevalent in the roman empire until the fourth century, in a time of roman decline and was adopted by emperors by chance I would say. Then the church hierarchy became a building block of the state. Speculation i admit but interesting speculation
  13. Well there is a lesson the overtly PC have not learned yet. First noble truth, there is dukkha. As in dissatisfaction. Some things are just bound to affect you with discomfort. That is just the fact of life and especially of living together. You can minimize it to some degree but I severly doubt you can eliminate it. By the way my exp with christian girls has been severly damaging. Sonehow religion damaged them mentally with a combination of perfectionism with lots of supressed sexual tension that erupted in weird ways, and a slight dash of reoentance mania. Abrahamic religions have this way of making you mental. Probably others too but I am better acquainted with these. I am NOT saying this ALWAYS happens but it does happen enough times to become a pattern.
  14. I personally found it helpful to think of this stuff in psychological terms. I mean it is sure we humans have a tendency to personify nature. We give mountains names, we form attachments to dogs as " friends" , We have symbolic wild dreams - at least I do. In this way the God of the Bible seems like a mix of the universe plus the characteristics of certain tribal chieftains merged plus personal projectiobs and sone attempts to order it all up. Like a collective work of art. And the bible is a diverse set of writings from different authors with different views written for different purposes. There are some clear contradictions in that theology. God is everywhere but no one can see him. He is all powerful, but does not show his power clearly. Except in ancient stories or mostly in them. He is all wise, but makes mistake after mistake with his own creatin and chosen people which goes astray. He wants you to be perfect and sinless but only allows you if you recognises you are flawed sick and sinful. He hates or disaproves of Satan but uses him to tempt and punish people. He is all knowing but he, somehow, creates libertarian free will in the same time. He praises good actions but he expects to be recognised as his own will and power. He saves you, but the enemy is either himself or his creation, the devil, overwhich he has complete control. He is judge but akso juror attorney prosecutor mediator and even defendant in Christ. Christ is the invulnerable God but suffers and dies . Christianity is monotheism but with a trinity, countless angels and saints. You can pray, but only for God s will which is supposedly going to happen anyway. He requites belief and faith but belief and faith is a gift from God to those prepared to receive it. He is all present but uses humans and ancient transportation to spread the Gospel, literally the most important thing, arriving in America only in the 15 century He says do not kill but makes the world salvation plan work through a public murder - Christ crucifixion I have not encountered so far any kind of theological model that is coherent and correponding to my sense of reality. I have read and herd attemots and rationalizations but how many plates can you spin in the same time? I am not saying there is not one but so far nothing really satisfying. It looks more the inner contradictions in the human soul than the divine perfect harmony. In short the God of the Bible as usually taught and presented is far too human to be GOD in my view
  15. And, I repeat look up the ICSA network of specialists. Until then CBD oil, bach flower solutions, some essential oils, rhodiola rosea and 5 htp are some over the counter supplements that have helped a little with this. Zinc and magnesium. Qi qong , meditation and streches for anxiety help. Also cutting off inflamatory foods like alchohol caffeine many spices, animal products and consuming plant proteins and carbohydrates, unprocesed, Hot baths. Many of these advices you can also find on the net also. Yes it does get worse in the evening for many people. The darkness the lomelines creeps better I suppose. Who knows else.
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