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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?

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  1. Mr. Bungle, if they're as prompt as the JWs who made me a similar promise regarding some question about Jesus perhaps fifteen or twenty years ago, you needn't hold your breath just yet. I had enjoyed my conversation with those JWs so very much because they were perhaps the first people with whom I could articulate all my questions and ideas about Jesus. They actually seemed to be interested and happy to discuss my questions and ideas.... You know what. Maybe their interest showed. If I remember correctly, they were fairly young. Maybe their elders realized what a dangerous person they had been talking to and forbade any of their people ever to call at our house again. Because we never had any more JW callers. I was disappointed. This was before I was in university and I REALLY LOVED the intellectual stimulation. I was afraid they might not come back, hopefully you're wrong but I wouldn't put it past them to avoid my house like the plague from now on.
  2. A couple Mormons stopped by my house after work today, after talking with them for awhile I decided to trap them with logic and tried to get them to explain to me how it is possible that God can make prophecies and be omniscient at the same time that we have free will. Of course when faced with irrefutable logic they tried to use a copout response saying "god just knows what we will choose, its not that we don't have free will… He just knows us better than we know ourselves.†I called them on it and accused them of not being intellectually honest with themselves. Anyway, they said that they would go back to their church and get the answer for me and come back on Saturday. I'm thinking it should be fairly interesting, I always love to see religious people squirm while they dodge questions where they know the answer but they can’t get themselves to utter it for the fear it would be blasphemy. I look forward to debating with them on Saturday and was wondering if any of you had any other ideas for things I could bring up. (I’m always looking for new weapons in my personal war on superstition)
  3. I really don't care who wins so long as its not hillary, since she's pretty much the inevetable canidate for the dems I'll vote for whoever is running against her. But as has already been stated there really isn't anyone that is really inspring, I think it will end up as it always does, pick the person you think will cause the least damage.
  4. nope no kids for me, yet. So I suppose I can't really fully understand where you're coming from on that one. I'm not sure where you're equating the pledge to a prayer though.. It's not being directed at any supernatural being, its more of a public statement in which you acknowledge the existence of something you obviously don't believe in. I guess in that respect you're lying on some level by reciting it.
  5. I think that some people take this issue too far, while I do agree the words "under god" probably should not be in the pledge it really doesn't offend me... I don't feel like I'm being forced to go through some religous ritual by saying the pledge in its present form. I don't see how this is anymore offensive to anyone else here then the labeling natural disasters "acts of god" by insurance companies. The pledge is used to swear allegance to the United States not "god".
  6. You could try this paradox, I've never heard a monotheist give me an answer that was satisfacotry, I've posted this on many forums its my version of a logical impossibility brought up by a greek philospher (although I can't remember who). anyways, Most Christians, Jews, and Muslims claim that god is: 1. Omnipotent - All powerful 2. Omniscient - All knowing 3. Omnibenovolent - All good Agree? I'll assume you do. Given events that transpire everyday a being that fits all of these 3 criteron simultaneously is logically impossible. I'll take a true situation that we (hopefully) can all agree is a bad one. Jessica Lunsford, 9, was abducted from her room by John Couey, 47, he raped her then bound her wrists with speaker wire, placed her in a garbage bag and buried her alive in a shallow grave where she suffocated to death. IF God is omni benevolent he would want to stop this right? Yes. IF God is omniscient he would have known about this event right? Yes. IF God is omnipotent he would have had the power to stop this right? Yes. Yet it happened anyway... any of us supposedly evil people, had we known in advance would have probably made some effort to stop this event from happening. you would have informed the police, or if you were close to the area maybe even have tried to physically intervene yourself. IF you knew in advance and did nothing, most people would say you are evil or cold for standing idly by and watching the entire thing play out on the evening news unwilling to lift a finger to save an innocent 9 year old girl from kidnapping, rape, and murder. So how does this show a logical inconsistency with the idea of God as portrayed by the monotheistic religions? Simple. IF God knew a 9yr old girl was about to get kidnapped, raped and murdered, had the power to stop it and did nothing, he is NOT omni benevolent. IF God didn't want a 9yr old girl to get kidnapped, raped, and murdered, knew about it and was un-able to prevent it he is NOT omnipotent. IF God doesn't want 9yr old girls to get kidnapped, raped, and murdered, has the power to stop it, but does nothing because he didn't know it was going on/about to happen, then he is NOT omniscient It is logically impossible for God to be all 3 at the same time and still allow evil to exist. Evil does exist. So either God is not omnipotent, omniscient, or omni benevolent, or he does not exist. I'll let you decide which it is?
  7. Thank Spock! McCoy bless you! Honest to Kirk! For Picard's sake! Oh, my Scotty! Starfleet help them! I'll be sending warp plasma your way! Lol, thank the the powers that be for Star Trek. just do the south park thing and say "science" instead of "god" Oh my Science! Oh Science be praised! Science Dammit! Science H logic!
  8. yeah try telling that to my father... I dare ya.
  9. Uhh... you aren't being sarcastic right? If you are, then I honestly wasn't trying to diss right-wingers. Just saying that generally they seem to be more christian than the left.... in Europe. No, not really, I'm politically conservative on defense, social services, international policy, all that stuff.... But at the same time im more moderate on social issues like abortion. No offense taken, I completely understand I think a lot of the conservatives are nut jobs... Its just that on the issues that I think matter the most things like national defense, immigration, and taxation... the issues that directly affect the economic health and well being of our county they (the right wing conservatives) are right. While I do identify more with the center-left on the stuff that really gets the right riled up... teaching evolution explicitly, no prayer in schools, gay rights, passing out condoms to high school kids that need them to name a few... I still vote conservative. I accept these flaws with the conservative base not because I wan't to but because I have to, to get what I wan't where matters. I would much rather see an America that is a strong and prosperous, un-equaled militarialy, technologically, and that is in a league of its own when it comes to innovation and opportunities, than I would have gay rights, no 10 commandments plaques in the court houses, and half my wages going to social welfare and hand out programs for illegal aliens.
  10. True. I wasn't trying to go for a stereotype but a whopping percentage are. Oh no doubt. Being a political conservative and a secularist at the same time often makes me the black sheep in my own political party. (Republican) but starting to think about changing to libertarian...
  11. Couldn't agree more. Al Gore is a hypocritical jack ass getting rich off of mass hysteria.
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