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Art

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Everything posted by Art

  1. I totally agree with what you said here, yeah, emotions are natural and absolutely allowed. I just hoped until the very end that everything was not so bad. I wish you the best in your situation.
  2. I agree. I'm still not totally ok (though I'm convinced that it's true) with the fact that there's probably no any possibility that one day we will know anything absolutely objectively and that discovering the truth is a lifetime process, not a single event (as within christianity). Thank you!
  3. I understand that. I hope that when I leave my church and things will become a little bit calmer, the answers to my questions will just come out or there will not be any questions anymore. I'm often over thinking many things, that's just a person who I am and I'm trying to not do this. Right now I am really don't know how to think different or not to think at all about that "study everything before you can make right and honest decision" thing.
  4. You know, when I heard something like this from people, especially in church, sometimes it seemed so obvious that it sounded pathetic and ostentatious from them. But reading this from you as from a nonbeliever and a man who's living on this planet alot longer than me (I'm 25 now) makes me wanna respect your life experience and believe that you are exactly know what you're saying.
  5. Well, it looks like something that we can only take on faith But it's so nice of you to share to me with that, thank you!))
  6. I agree with that. Today I'm trying to understand what actually is the best way for ME to make decisions, what is MY personally moral code is, what is actually I AM thinking is wrong or right. I'm almost perfectly ok with the idea that morality is subjective thing, I mean it's still a little bit hard to accept that after years of being convinced about christian morality views, but outside of emotions I completely understand and agree with secular views. Now I need to put my self esteem in a stable position to stop being unsure that I actually can make the right and moral choices without any absolute authority behind. Appreciate the reply! Continuing my reply to Weezer's reply, I want to say that though I'm trying to rely on my own understanding of morality, things are still complicated in some cases.. For example when I'm having conversations with ministers it always baffles me when they are saying something like "How can you be sure that it's not worth it to believe in God when you wasn't listening to this or that preacher or wasn't read to this or that apologetics book" (another words - I'm still wasn't get all possible information on the topic to be able to honestly reject it). And it baffles me because my current moral views won't let me think that I'm a honest person until I'll completely study the question to make sure that there's really nothing left anymore. And yes, if we'll throw away my current moral views, I'm already having information that is enough for me to reject christianity (cruelty of an OT for example), but when it comes to understanding that there's so much information that I wasn't discovered yet (and maybe exactly in some of that books/videos I'll discover the truth), it baffles me so much. Because I understand that in that case to be absolutely honest I must to study all information about all other religions and it would take a lifetime and blah blah blah... Well, yeah, I can make the problem of nothing as some of you might think But I really don't understand how can I honestly reject something until I was studied all information possible even if it'll take a lifetime. Spoiler: I don't want to waste my lifetime on this Any advices? Maybe some of you were in a situation like this. Yes, this is exactly my situation! I appreciate your reply, though I'm absolutely not thinking that being with a band in my case it's a good quality. Actually I was with a band so long just because I couldn't say No and putting interests of others above my own even when it's was actually bad for me and my mental health. So yes, I'm trying my best to do what I think is best for me right now, even if it means conflict with people whom I don't want to fight with. Thanks again! I understand now. I'm sorry for your situation, hope you do not get mad at them in return. Thank you for your replies!
  7. I think the thing here is about worldview and personal views on morality etc. Few posts above I said that right now I'm in unstable position about all that things and sometimes even thinking that there's no any sense at all in everything, so as morality, because it's individual for everybody. So if they are thinking that life without god is unfulfilled and after all there is hell for anyone then it's completely understandable from their point of view that all bad things is worth it if it's leading people to god in the end. At the same time this people never would turn their backs for anyone who would personally ask for a help from them and never would say something like "God want you to suffer and it is better for you so I won't help you because it's for your own good". So their basic moral standards isn't different from most of us besides this "praying for bad things" thing and other religious BS. But this is not BS for them and how can we prove that people are wrong about their moral standards (on praying for bad things for this example) if this standards is subjective for everybody? You might say that higher value is well being for example. But for our opponents higher value is people won't go to hell even if it will cost them their well being. And there is no way we can change their mind until they higher value is different from ours. Sorry for off topic, it's just that morality is one of the main things that bothers me since I'm no longer a believer.
  8. Thank you so much! The only thing was stopping me from registering on this forum is language barrier. Though I think I know english pretty well, it’s still not easy for me to perceive the text and form my own thoughts into text and I'm getting tired pretty fast during that processes. But I will try my best, thank you again TABA and I will text you a message if I would feel the need!
  9. I mean that's what I think is the main reason they don't want me to leave, not the worship team.
  10. Thanks for your opinion! Though I actually don't think that they are that bad. Last time I was talking with one of the ministers that I always were closer to, he told me that they just care about me, about what my life will be without Christ and how far would I go without guidance of a christian god, and they know about my existential crisis what I mentioned few posts above and it's making them care even more. I'm not trying to make excuses for them, but I think that they really cares about me, but their religious views just giving them worst possible pictures of what will happen to my life without their god. And it's just sad.. About them, not me. I don't really actually care about god's guidance thing. Though I really am in a unstable position right now and don't know how to live my life best outside of my old religious worldview.
  11. Thanks for so detailed example! I also forgot to mention that I'm living in a small town where it's hard to find a good job. Now I have been working in the construction team for two years, where these same ministers invited me when I had problems finding a job. So I will see them anyway at work
  12. And one more question: where's that damn "like" button for me to click under your replies? I see only the "quote", "share" but that's all
  13. Thanks again to all of you! So nice to finally find community where I can share all that stuff and not be afraid of some biased attitude or at least afraid of it less than anywhere else.. I'm in the beginning of this journey, it's something like existential crisis right now, when it's hard to realize that I actually don't have a good reason to think that there's some all mighty person always by my side, not a good reason to think that objective morality exists and all this kind of questions that ruined templates of your worldview. Sometimes it is even hard to think that there can be any more or less objective truth at all and everybody just see what they are want to see, like religious people do and no one is right more than anybody. Of course I'm trying as hard as I can to rely on my mind and not to emotions but.. Well, I guess it's just needs more time. I'm happy that I can write anything about my struggles here and get a reply from those who already more or less was in my shoes.
  14. Thank all of you for your replies! I think my problem is in my self esteem and other psychological stuff. In my life before christianity I've always been unconfident guy who is often difficult to make a decision, who avoids conflicts because he is afraid that he does not have the courage to defend his opinion, in which he is often not completely sure because he often thinks that he is not so good as anybody else. It all got worse when I was diagnosed encephalopathy in my late teens and after that I was just started screwing myself even more and thought that I wouldn't be able to effectively study and learn anything and accordingly wouldn't be able to make a reliable opinion on anything. Well, fortunately I realized that it is just me screwing myself up and things are not that bad) Though I'm not so hesitant person today, it's still hard for me to not give a shit on the opinions of people (talking about ministers, not a worship team) whom I have long considered authority and who relied heavily on, literally. These people has done so many good things to me during last 5 years, always were there for me whatever happens and of course I'm considered them my good friends. Maybe this is why I still can't just stop giving a shit and leave the ministry already, deep inside I feel that I owe them for all good things they were doing for me. However, yes, it breaks my heart so much that they are so brainwashed by their religion that manipulation is good for them to keep things as they think is right and better for everyone. Just like these prayers when they ask their god to send misfortunes and illnesses in lifes of unbelievers so that those have a reason to turn to this god, "end justifies the means"... Anyway, just want to stay in a good relationship with all of them. Hope they would want it too.
  15. Greetings to all of you! Sorry if my english is not very good, it's not my native language. So I want to ask you guys to give some advices about my situation. I'm a musician, worship minister in a small pentecostal church (about 20-30 members). The other members of the group never considered themselves as a musicians and was doing their ministry only because there was no one else who was ready to do it. So when I became a minister, all technical stuff about how to make music not to sound like shit was layed on my shoulders because I was the only one in the whole church who knows how to do it right. Not so long ago I was came out to my pastor and to other ministers about my non beliefs. After some discussions when they realized that I'm serious about my decision to leave the church they're have nothing left to say but to ask me not to leave my ministry until a replacement was found for me as a musician. Actually I can understand them, because the rest of the worship team still can't do good sounding music on their own without me as a director who can tell them about what they're doing wrong and how to do it right. Of course I was giving them some private lessons about music and stuff, but almost no one of them were actually practicing on their own without me so as a result there was almost no progress. So In the end, ministers told me that despite the fact that they understand my discomfort with being in the church, they believe that I will act immorally, leaving the group on it's own without musical leadership. And because we are actually a good friends I couldn't say no to them. So here I am on stage for 2 months after that conversation, singing songs about stuff that I'm absolutely in conflict with, playing music that I don't like, wasting my time on repetitions etc. And there's no reason to think that someone could take my place any time soon, because as I sad earlier there's almost no one in group who do care about a real progress of their musical skills. And for those few who care, in any case, it will take a lot of time that I will have to spend in the ministry before the moment they will be ready to replace me. It's kind of trap and it's hard for me to just stop giving a f*** and leave... Soon I'm going to talk about it with ministers again because I can't let it last longer anymore. So I'm asking you guys to give me some advice about what actually should I tell them, how to react if they again claim that I am immoral for leaving the team on it's own etc. I understand that they're just manipulating me, even if they think that they doing it for good. But I'm just so exhausted that I literally can't think clearly about that. Everytime when I think I'm ready to tell them that I am going to quit I feel this guilt and shame (even if I actually understand that it's irrational) for what would it be if I leave my worship team on their own. Maybe some of you already been in my situation, maybe you could share links to some videos or text testimonies of those who been. I would appreciate any help..
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