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Clayton_Veno

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    I am an Autistic man from Canada looking into mysteries of the world and Astrology and Christian Pagan Parallels among other things.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Deistic/Pantheistic/Panentheistic

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  1. I'll also explain why ive not been respondent for so long its family issues and boredom/depression largely but i'll be back on track soon enough.
  2. Hi guys sorry for not being in touch for so long i'll be back to posting new articles within a week or two so stay tuned!
  3. Nonsense Heven and Hell appear in many Egyptian, Roman, Babylonian, Nordic, Chaldean, and especially Zoroastrian myths dating back thosands of years it is all mythology/astrotheology you have nuffin to fear!
  4. Hi Guys it's been a while so I am writing this article as a refutation/debunking of false statements made by Egyptologist Barbara Lesko In her Criticisms of Claas Jouco Bleeker in her Book The Great Goddesses of Ancient Egypt and making some of my own criticisms of Lesko in Bleekers defense. Now I have great respect for both Lesko and Bleeker and I think both of them are great scholars in there respective fields and I am in no way writing this to attack Barbara Lesko In my critique of her responses to Claas Jouco Bleeker however I feel some of the statements she made were rather silly to put it nicely and kinda dumb to put it harshly Here Is what She said in response to Neith as a Virgin Mother: "On the great stone Sarcophagus of King Menerptah of the Nineteenth Dynasty a Text refers to Neith as a creator deity: again she is the mother of the major gods Re and Osiris the One who was present at the beginning This is the earliest known refrence to Neith as a creator again which is spelled out clearly again in her much later history That a female deity could be accepted by the Egyptians as creator deity is surely significant but scholars have tended either to overlook this fact or to downplay it into an androgynous persona However Neith is no virgin goddess like Athena even if a husband is not associated with her Her motherhood is clearly stated and her priesthood was primarily if not exclusivly female" Barbara Lesko The Great Goddesses of Ancient Egypt (57-56) She then goes on to discuss how Neith is a too womanly a figure to be androgynus as if that somehow disproves Neiths Virgin Mother Status but where to start: Neith being a mother to Ra, Osiris and many other Gods/Goddesses doesnt do anything to disprove her Virgin Mother Status at all and weather or not she was androgynus has nothing to do with it either. It is the fact that as Lesko herself admits throughout her entire chapter Neith had the ability to procreate many children and sometimes even the universe itself without Intercourse with any male partner. Now bearing those facts about Neith and her solitude in mind, there is a statue currently at the Vatican’s Gregorian Egyptian Museum which dates to the time of the Persian rule of Egypt, specifically the early reign of King Darius I, c. 519 BCE.[6] It is a depiction of Udjahorresnet, a Saitic physician and priest of Neith. The inscriptions on this statue contain several adorations to Neith, and one line in particular, located under the right arm, reads: Fig. 3: Statue of the priest Udjahorresnet, 6th century BCE, which attests to the virgin motherhood of Neith. In corroboration with this is a statue of Neith herself that was once located at her temple in Sais. Though it is now no longer extant, its existence and inscription was documented by a couple of writers from antiquity. Reconstructing it from quotes by Plutarch[8] and Proclus,[9] the inscription said: Dr. Erik Hornung comments that the veil having never been lifted “clearly refers to sexual union,”[11] and the obvious lack thereof. Egyptologist Jan Assmann states, concerning the inscription: Continuing that sentiment: So the Egyptian sun god Re was born of a virgin, and that was literally written in stone many centuries before the Common Era. For primary sources/citations to the above refer yourself to the link below: https://mythodoxy.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/bart-ehrman-vs-virgin-births/ "I am all that has been and is and shall be; and no mortal has ever lifted my garment The fruit of my womb was the sun" -Isis-Neith inscription at Sais recorded by Proclus So as we can see Neith in the form of Isis who's virgin mother status Ive already covered before gives obvious virginal conception to the sun Ra/Horus regardless of weather or not she was androgynus and regardless of how many children she had she concieved which renders her (Lesko's) entire statement as a red herring as to why scholars concider her to be a virgin mother in the first place. Her entire premise throughout her chapter on Neith runs in direct contradiction with her conclusion on Neith's Virgin Mother Status. Next regarding Hathor here is what Bleeker had to say: “Even In the latter days of Egyptian Culture and religion Hathor retained her Independence and Virginity. In this respect she can be more aptly compared to Athene who remain parthenos though sometimes called mother than with Aphrodite” Claas Jouco Bleeker Hathor and Thoth two key figures of the Ancient Egyptian Religion (64-65) “It is characteristic of the position of Hathor in the Ancient Egyptian Pantheon that there is no mention of a father as is the case with Horus son of Osiris and Isis. Hathor’s motherhood is therefore conceived of as parthenogenesis or being purely symbolical.” Claas Jouco Bleeker Hathor and Thoth two key figures of the Ancient Egyptian Religion (63) Here is Barbara Lesko's response: "She was adored for herself and the power she held over sexual human life. It is for this reason that I disagree with Bleeker who regards Hathor as a Virgin Mother on the same plane as Neith....Moreover Hathor was too involved in sexual allure, erotic dance, romance and human fertility to be either androgynus or virginal" Barbara Lesko The Great Goddesses of Egypt (114-115) Now on the surface this sounds like a fairly well rounded critiqe of Bleeker's point and seems more reasonable than the last concerning Neith however this too as we shall see is also an absurd and untenable statement and position to hold for 3 reasons. 1. For one thing Lesko falls into the same trap that many modern Egyptologists fall for and that is taking these stories literally at face value rather than recognising these mystery school beliefs as what they really are: Astrotheology and Mythology not historical biographies of real people and life events. Hathor is merely a mythological allegory or metaphore symbolizing: A) Virgo the "Virgin" in the Zodiac. The Purity Chakra in the Kundalini. C) Taurus the Bull in the Zodiac not a literal real person who engages in these sexual functions. It is for these reasons that Hathor is equally a goddess of Sex Love Beauty and Fertility and at the same time also has virginity that is comparable to Athena's as Bleeker noted earlier and contradiction is the key ingredient in Symbolism and Mythology Contradiction=Mythology and Mythology=Contradiction and you dont get mythology nor allegory without there being at least some form of Contradiction or absurdity being present within the mythos. 2. The Ancient Egyptians were very much like modern Christians in the sense that they had many different Mystery Cults (Denominations so too speak in Christian terms) that had many conflicting and differing opinions and beliefs about the Gods and Goddesses they worshiped hence why there are so many different versions of every world mythology to begin with and why the pagans worshiped so many different versions of the various Divinities that they worshiped in the first place not to mention why so many versions of them have compleatly differing roles/functions and myths from other versions. Some Versions of Hathor potray her as the wife of Ra, daugther of Ra and even when Identified with Mehet-Wheret the mother of Ra. Other versions as the wife of Horus or his mother, others still as wife of Khonsu or his mother in versions where she is the wife of Amen Ra in place of or in the form of Mut. In Some versions she is less of a cow goddess and more of a love/sex goddess other versions of her it is vice versa. Some versions potray her as a Queen goddess and others still potray her as a warrior goddess akin to Neith/Athena the point being that not all Egyptian Mystery Cults would have worshipped her in this one stagnent form as a Sex/love Goddess and there are many different versions of Hathor as established so naturally there would have been at least some who most certainly would have viewed her as a Virgin Mother some no doubt with Athene levels of virginity as Bleeker rightfully stated and he is most certainly not alone in this claim: "The Pyramid Texts speak of “the great virgin” (hwn.t wr.t) three times (682c, 728a, 2002a…); she is anonymous, appears as the protectress of the king, and is explicitly called his mother once (809c). It is interesting that Isis is addresseed as hwn.t in a sarcophagus oracle that deals with her mysterious pregnancy. In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares: “I am the great virgin.”… In the Late Period (712-332 BCE) in particular, goddesses are frequently called “(beautiful) virgins,” especially Hathor, Isis, and Nephthys." Dr. Jan Bergman, Dr. Helmer Ringgren and Johannas G. Botterweck in The Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament Volume II (339) “In Egypt the epithets add.t, rnn.t and Hwn.t, ‘girl; young woman; virgin’, are applied to many goddesses—e.g. Hathor and Isis—who had not yet had sexual intercourse.” Dr. Bob Becking, in Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible (891) “-Cybele, Aphrodite, Demeter, Astarte, Isis, Hathor, Inanna and Ishtar. Like them she (Mary) is both virgin and mother and like many of them she gives birth to a half-human half-divine child who dies and is reborn” The Myth Of The Goddess: Evolution Of An Image by Anne Baring and Jules Cashford (548) "According to the monuments themselves whose heiroglypghs we are now able to read he was a pious king who planned a temple to Hathor the virgin mother of the gods offered images and golden ivory and wrote 'the sacred book' " Egyptologist James Bonwick The Great Pyramid of Giza: History and Speculation "Hathor the divine mother: the Child Horus was now considered in the Lunar Cult as having been brought forth by Hathor. She was most commonly represented as a cow and was the mother goddess she was also the mother of generation childbirth and maternity. when she was depicted in human form she carried an ankh on her right hand and a staff in her left she was crowned with the double horns with the moons crecent wedged between them. When depicted as a cow she was wearing this same headgear in the legends she is concidered a Virgin" Jordan Maxwell, Paul Tice and Alan Snow That Old Time Religion (31) “PARTHENOGENESIS. The myth that certain divine beings or culture-heroes have owed their birth, to a mother without the co-operation of a father has been found to be widespread. For example, Isis, Cybele, Leto, Demeter, and Venus are all represented as " virgin " mothers. The Chinese culture-hero Hon Chi was born of a mother who conceived by treading in a footprint of God. The principal deity of the Uapes Indians of Brazil, Jurupari, was born of a virgin who conceived after drinking a draught of native beer.” AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIONS by Maurice Arthur Canney (278) “The more general archetype was often seen in mythology as threefold; thus, for example, Aphrodite was seen as Aphrodite the Virgin, Aphrodite the Wife, and Aphrodite the Whore. A similar triplicity is found in the figure of Isis as Sister, Wife and Widow of Osiris.” Adam Mclean: The Triple Goddess (16) Keeping in mind that Aphrodite/Venus Is in fact Hathor of course. This is further supported by the fact that a "Virgin Cow" sometimes identified as an "Isis Cow" and other times as Hathor herself was impregnated with the Apis Bull via a flash of lightning or lunar rays: “This Apis is the calf of a cow which is never afterwards able to have another. The Egyptian belief is that a flash of light descends upon the cow from heaven, and this causes her to receive Apis.” Herodotus, Histories 3.28.2 “The Apis, they say, is the animate image of Osiris, and he comes into being when a fructifying light thrusts forth from the moon and falls upon a cow in her breeding-season” Plutarch, Moralia, 368C “Apis—a black bull, marked by particular spots and different from other bulls in his tail and in his tongue—is the divinity of all the Aegyptian peoples. He is born only rarely, conceived not from mating cattle, as they say, but miraculously in a celestial fire. The day of his birth is particularly festive to the whole people." Pomponius Mela, Description of the World.” 1.9.58 (mid 1st cen. CE) Combine this with the fact that Apis was quite often syncretized with Osiris as D.N. Boswell has pointed out in these sources: https://mythodoxy.wordpress.com/2019/07/18/syncretism-with-gentile-gods/ https://www.scribd.com/doc/217853241/Pagan-Parallels-The-Ultimate-Source-Guide#download This therefore means Osiris/Serapis would have been born of Hathor and/or Isis in the form of a lightning flash or moon rays showing that there clearly were some mystery cults who worshipped versions of Hathor prior to christianity who concieved virginally. 3. As we have seen this claim that Neith wasn't a virgin mother made by Barbara Lesko is erroneous however it is also worth noting that Neith, Hathor and Isis are all the same goddess: E.A Wallis Budge In From Fetish To God In Ancient Egypt pgs 58-59 stated that Neith "as a cow goddess was Identified with Hathor and Isis" "Rock art throughout the northern part of the African continent dating as far back as 6000 B.C.E. widely depicts sacred bovines and female figures wearing horns, which may represent early forms of Neith and later goddesses with whom she was identified, such as Hathor and Isis " Margerite Rigoglioso Virgin Mother Goddesses of Antiquity (28) "Joshua J Mark in his online article about Neith also said as much" " Neith (aka Net, Neit or Nit) and is one of the oldest deities of ancient Egypt who was worshipped early in the Pre-Dynastic Period (c. 6000 - 3150 BCE) and whose veneration continued through the Ptolemaic Dynasty (323 - 30 BCE), the last to rule Egypt before the coming of Rome. She was a war goddess, goddess of creation, mother goddess who invented birth, and funerary goddess who cared for and helped to dress the souls of the dead. Her cult center was at Sais in the Nile Delta and she continued as the most popular goddess of Lower Egypt even after her attributes were largely given to Isis and Hathor and those goddesses became more popular in Egypt. Neith continued to be honored as the patron goddess of Sais throughout Egypt's history as she was considered a great protector of the people of the land and the most effective mediator between humanity and the gods." "Although many of her attributes were given to Isis and Hathor, as previously noted, her worship never declined. Even during eras where more popular deities received the greater attention, Neith continued to be regarded with reverence and awe and her festival was considered one of the most important in ancient Egypt." https://www.ancient.eu/Neith/ "Even Wikipedia admits this conflation" "Both Plutarch and a later philosopher, Proclus, mentioned a veiled statue of the Egyptian goddess Neith, whom they conflated with Isis, citing it as an example of her universality and enigmatic wisdom. It bore the words "I am all that has been and is and will be; and no mortal has ever lifted my mantle." "The statue was at a temple in Sais, Neith's cult center. She was largely conflated with Isis in Plutarch's time, and he says the statue is of "Athena [Neith], whom [the Egyptians] consider to be Isis". Proclus' version of the quotation says "no one has ever lifted my veil," implying that the goddess is virginal.[169] This claim was occasionally made of Isis in Greco-Roman times, though it conflicted with the widespread belief that she and Osiris together conceived Horus.[170] Proclus also adds "The fruit of my womb was the sun", suggesting that the goddess conceived and gave birth to the sun without the participation of a male deity, which would mean it referred to Egyptian myths about Neith as the mother of Ra" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis Mehet-Weret or Mehturt (Ancient Egyptian: mḥt-wrt) is an ancient Egyptian deity of the sky in ancient Egyptian religion. Her name means "Great Flood".She was mentioned in the Pyramid Texts. In ancient Egyptian creation myths, she gives birth to the sun at the beginning of time, and in art she is portrayed as a cow with a sun disk between her horns. She is associated with the goddesses Neith, Hathor, and Isis, all of whom have similar characteristics, and like them she could be called the "Eye of Ra".[2] Mehet-Weret is primarily known as being the "Celestial Cow" or "Cow Goddess" because of her physical characteristics, but she contributes to the world in more ways than that. She is also the Goddess of Water, Creation, and Rebirth; in Egyptian mythology, Mehet-Weret is one of the main components in the making and survival of life.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehet-Weret And Contra Carrier, Ehrman, Maurice Casey, Inspiring Philosophy and other demon possesed heathens blinded by the forces of evil Isis was most certainly a virgin mother http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4027/5079016883_a02fef3005_b.jpg https://stellarhousepublishing.com/isis-is-a-virgin-mother/ https://stellarhousepublishing.com/bart-ehrman-errs-again-this-time-about-virgin-births/ https://mythodoxy.wordpress.com/2019/12/25/virgin-motherhood/ https://stellarhousepublishing.com/luxor/ “As Mithraism moved westward it proved a fertile ground for the addition of mystic meaning. Practically all the symbolism of Osiris was added to the Mithraic cultus even to the fact that Isis became the virgin mother of Mithras.” Religions Of The World by Gerald L. Berry (56) “…[Osiris’s] parts were collected by Isis, and his body was duly resurrected by her, although the phallus was missing. This obliged the goddess to resort to parthenogenesis in order to conceive and bring forth Horus.” –Dr. James S. Curl, The Egyptian Revival , p. 15. So Hathor is identicle to Isis-Neith and therefore would have all of there Virginal creatrix powers Rigoglioso even states: "Hathor assumed the following characteristics of Neith: she was imaged as a cow; came to represent the entire sky; and, as the autogenetic “mother of the light,” birthed herself as the first act of creation and subsequently produced Shu and Tefnut. She is also described as “the great cow that gave birth to Re.” See Budge ([1904] 1969, 1:428–38) for a comprehensive discussion of Hathor. Hollis (1994–95, 49–50) also affirms that Hathor adopted many of Neith’s characteristics. However, Neith’s primary characterization was as autogenetic creatrix (which I argue that she retained down to the Graeco-Roman period). In contrast, Hathor, who also retained the identity of “mother of the god,” came to be defined in terms of her relationship to the god as mother, wife, or daughter, rather than as sovereign in her own right. I argue this represents an ontological demotion of the Great Goddess." Margerite Rigoglioso The Virgin Mother Goddesses of Antiquity (212) While I disagree with her opinion that Hathor was not sovreign in her own right as she most certainly was but the point being she had Neith's creatrix powers and thus would have been a virgin mother. In conclusion I disagree with Barbara Lesko's bogus statements regarding Neith and Hathor as both goddesses were both absolutly Virgin mothers long prior to Christianity and I am definitely sideing with Claas Jouco Bleeker on this one Barbara Lesko is most certainly a great Egyptologist and I highly recommend her book but she is however wrong in her analysis of Bleekers statements concerning these to goddesses and there parthenogenic capabilities....
  5. And I'm Okay with that to be fair this wasnt really meant to disprove christianity nor even Jesus but rather an extensive examination of the parallels between Jesus and other figures as well as to explain my personal position as to why I see Jesus as Mythical but you don't have to agree if you don't want to.
  6. Actually to my knowledge you are allowed as long as you don't prostalatyze or force beliefs down anyones throats so what are you trying to tell me?
  7. Hey man thanks for the comment! I actually am this christmas creating a website and E-book dedicated entirely to this info and there will be different Articles on my website covering different Gods/Goddesses, Old Testament Prophets and Historical Figures and there parallels to Jesus (with relevant primary sources included of course) as well as much research into the lack of credible evidence for Jesus existence so it will be something to look foward to!
  8. No Im talking that they closed comments so no one can do it anymore on that page.
  9. "Also by those same standards of logic of these goddesses sons having fathers and therefore the goddesses cannot be concidered virgin mothers he/she could have dismissed the virgin mother status of Isis-Neith and Perseus" OOOOOOPS I meant Danae after Isis-Neith my bad!
  10. That is a great point Tat! were talking about symbolism and metaphores not to be understood by the mass majority of "Pagans" out there Greatraven is ignorant of this fact and I was going to respond but for some dumb fucking reason they closed the comments so I wasnt able to respond to what he/she was saying but The fact will remain that Rhea Sylvia, Semele and Persephone were virgin mothers no if ands or buts about it. Also I dont think Greatraven's an apologist but still he or she was esposing alot of crap with those erronious statements indeed... Also by those same standards of logic of these goddesses sons having fathers and therefore the goddesses cannot be concidered virgin mothers he/she could have dismissed the virgin mother status of Isis-Neith and Perseus (something Greatraven doesnt object to) by that very same logic as apologists have quite often done in the past.
  11. Hi there everyone so before I begin my topic/forum on Lesko concerning Neith and Hathor I just wanted to start another topic that me and N.W. Barker have been having and see what everyones thoughts are: Hi FTL It's been a while I found this rather absurd comment here: Greatraven 8 MONTHS AGO Um... Romulus and Remus had a father, the god Mars. Their mother was a vestal virgin, yes, but there was no parthenogenesis involved. Dionysus was the son of Zeus. His mother Semele was not a virgin; Hera, disguised as a neighbour, talked her into demanding to see who he really was, then refusing him further access to her bed. Jason has a father too, King Aeson. There is a long list of possible mothers. Recommended: Robert Graves’ book The Greek Myths. No doubt there are plenty of virgin birth stories, but those are not among them, I’m afraid. https://www.smh.com.au/national/there-s-nothing-new-about-virgin-births-just-ask-plato-20191225-p53mui.html#comments There are many problems with Greatraven's statement for starters Greatraven fails to comprehend how ancient MYTH operates the idea of a goddess who is married and engages in sexual intercourse and yet also at the same time remains a virgin when conceiving her child or children second Greatraven is also ignorant of these quotes: “If our Christ-cultists say that their Jesus Christ was born miraculously from a virgin who had known no men, likewise the pagans had already said that Romulus and Remus, the founders of Rome, were miraculously born of a vestal virgin named Ilia, Sylvia, or Rhea Sylvia. They had already said that Mars, Vulcan, Argus, and others were born of Juno, who had no knowledge of men.” — Jean Meslier (1729), The Testament (pg. 129) While Semele may not have been referred to as a Virgin in ancient texts she is considered to be a Virgin mother by many scholars such as Edmund Ronald Leach, Marguerite Rigoglioso, Edward Carpenter and Joseph Campbell Just to name a few and in one myth Semele is impregnated with Dionysus through a flash of lightning as related in Euripedes "The Bacchae" and in another through drinking Bacchus’s severed heart in the form of a potion (Hyginus Fabulae 167) both rather obvious Virgin Births that debunk Grateraven's point about Semele. Also on a side note speaking of Robert Graves Even the Randy Zeus according to Graves and Marguerite Rigoglioso was a Virgin Father who gave birth parthenogenetically. "Dionysus, son of Zeus, is born of a mortal virgin, Semele, who later became immortalized through the intervention of her divine son; Jesus, son of God, is born of a mortal virgin, Mary… such stories can be duplicated over and over again." Edmund Ronald Leach Hugh Jones 108 "While the maiden goddess sat there, peacefully weaving a mantle on which there was to be a representation of the universe, her mother contrived that Zeus should learn of her presence; he approached her in the form of an immense snake. And the virgin conceived the ever-dying, everliving god of bread and wine, Dionysus, who was born and nurtured in that cave, torn to death as a babe and resurrected..." Campbell, MG, 27. “Semele was also likely a holy parthenos by virtue of the fact that she gave birth to Dionysus via her union with Zeus (Hesiod, Theogony 940) Marguerite Rigoglioso The Cult of the Divine Birth in Ancient Greece (95) "Dionysus, like other Sun or Nature deities, was born of a Virgin (Semele or Demeter) untainted by any earthly husband" Edward Carpanter Pagan and Christisn Creeds (65) Lastly Greatraven appears to be unaware of Persephone's Virgin mother status despite her marriage to Hades and other consorts. "The pagan occasion (Jan.6) was in celebration of the birth of the year-god Aion to the Virgin goddess Kore a hellenized transformation of Isis." Mythologist Joseph Campbell The Mythic Image (34) "On this day, i.e. on the eighth day before the Calends of January, the Greeks...celebrate a feast that the Romans call Saturnalia, the Egyptians Cronia and the Alexandrines Cicellia. The reason is that the eighth day before the Calends of January forms a dividing-line, for on it occurs the solstice; the day begins to lengthen again and the sun shines longer and with increasing strength until the eighth day before the Ides of January, viz., until the day of Christ’s nativity... The principal of [the] feasts is that which takes place in the so-called Koreion in Alexandria, this Koreion being a mighty temple in the district sacred to Kore. Throughout the whole night the people keep themselves awake here by singing certain hymns and by means of the flute-playing which accompanies the songs they sing to the image of their god. When they have ended these nocturnal celebrations, then at morning cock-crow they descend, carrying torches, into a sort of chapel which is below ground and thence they carry up a wooden image of one lying naked upon a bier. This image has upon its forehead a golden cross and two more such seals in the form of crosses one on each hand... If anyone asks them what manner of mysteries these might be, they reply, saying: “Today at this hour Kore, that is the virgin, has given birth to Aion.” Such things also occur in Petra... The hymns they sing are in the Arabic tongue and are in praise of a virgin whom they call “Chaamu” which is the same as Kore or Parthenos, and in praise of her child “Dusares” which means “Only son of the ruler of all.” The same thing happens on this same night in Alexandria, in Petra and also in the city of Elusa" Hugo Rahner Greek Myth and Christian Mystery (137-38) For a lengthy discussion of this important passage in Epiphanius, which was edited out of the Migne edition, see Murdock, CIE, 84-88. Parthenos being the greek word for Virgin! "This date is not derived from the New Testament which is silent on this matter it my have been chosen in concious opposition to a celebration held in Alexandria on the night of January 5th and the morning of January 6 in honor of the birth of the god Aeon from the Virgin Goddess Kore" Opening the Bible essays by Howard H Charles (129) As a title "Parthenos" was apropriate to Demeter and Persephone Donald White (183) Marguerite Rigoglioso has an entire chapter about Demeter and Persephone In Virgin Mother Goddesses of Antiquity called Demeter and Persephone: Double Goddesses of Parthenogenesis (99-191) Lastly as you and I both know Isis was the Virgin Mother of Horus: "The Pyramid Texts speak of “the great virgin” (hwn.t wr.t) three times (682c, 728a, 2002a…); she is anonymous, appears as the protectress of the king, and is explicitly called his mother once (809c). It is interesting that Isis is addresseed as hwn.t in a sarcophagus oracle that deals with her mysterious pregnancy. In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares: “I am the great virgin.”… In the Late Period (712-332 BCE) in particular, goddesses are frequently called “(beautiful) virgins,” especially Hathor, Isis, and Nephthys." Dr. Jan Bergman, Dr. Helmer Ringgren and Johannas G. Botterweck in The Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament Volume II (339) So I am Isis. So I am a flame goddess. You are Osiris. I am mother to Horus. I am sister to the god. I am Hmmy.t. I am the Great Virgin. Temple of Seti I, Chapel of Osiris, West Wall-South Gate (13th century BCE) Amice M. Calverley and Myrtle F. Broome, The Temple of King Sethos I at Abydos: Volume I, The Chapels of Osiris, Isis and Horus, ed. A.H. Gardiner (London: The Egypt Exploration Society, 1933), pl.9. Notice how Isis says she is mother to Horus first THAN states that she is "The Great Virgin" On a side note the word maiden is a synonym for Virgin and sometimes the two words are interchangeble to the point of both words meaning a woman who hasent had sex. “Aeon/Horus was born of the Virgin Isis on 6 January … The Egyptian goddess who was equally ‘the Great Virgin’ (Hwnt) and ‘Mother of the God’ was the object of the very same praises bestowed upon her successor (The Virgin Mary).” Egyptologist Dr. Reginald E. Witt, Isis in the Ancient World (218) (273) "Isis was the sacred embodiment of motherhood and yet was known as the Great Virgin an apparent contradiction that will be familiar to Christians" Egyptologist Dr. James Curl Egyptian Revival (13) "Isis came to be worshipped as the Primordial Virgin and their child as the Savior of the World. … Her titles included those of Mother of God, Great of Magic, Mistress of Heaven and the New Year, Star of the Sea (in Alexandria), Virgin of the World (in the Hermetic tradition)." Egyptologist Dr. Bojana Mojsov, Osiris: Death and Afterlife of a God (xii) (xvi) According to Egyptologist Jan Assman in relation to the severed phallus myth: "The Egyptian texts which seldom mention this scene know nothing of this detail" Egyptologist Jan Assman Death and Salvation In Ancient Egypt (25) "Isis was known as the “great virgin” and as the “mother of the god” among her devotees: in Egyptian mythology, she was credited with giving birth to the Egyptian solar deity Horus." Dr. Stephen J. Davis, The Early Coptic Papacy: The Egyptian Church and Its Leadership in Late Antiquity (77) "Isis had been called both the ‘Mother of the God’, meaning the mother of the divine Horos (Harpocrates), and the ‘Great Virgin’." Dr. Thomas F. Mathews and Dr. Norman Muller, “Isis and Mary in early icons,” in Images of the Mother of God: Perceptions of the Theotokos in Byzantium (4) "This Egyptian deity under many names appears as the principle of natural fecundity among nearly all the religions of the ancient world. She was known as the goddess with ten thousand appellations and was metamorphosed by Christianity into the Virgin Mary, for Isis, although she gave birth to all living things – chief among them the Sun – still remained a virgin, according to the legendary accounts." Manly P Hall (33rd Degree Freemason) The Secret Teachings Of All Ages (119) “In Egypt the epithets add.t, rnn.t and Hwn.t, ‘girl; young woman; virgin’, are applied to many goddesses—e.g. Hathor and Isis—who had not yet had sexual intercourse.” Dr. Bob Becking, in Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible (891) “-Cybele, Aphrodite, Demeter, Astarte, Isis, Hathor, Inanna and Ishtar. Like them she (Mary) is both virgin and mother and like many of them she gives birth to a half-human half-divine child who dies and is reborn” The Myth Of The Goddess: Evolution Of An Image by Anne Baring and Jules Cashford (548) “Among the Egyptians, the zodiacal Isis is a virgin mother.” Romualdo Gentilucci (1848), Life of the Most Blessed Virgin Mary (25) “PARTHENOGENESIS. The myth that certain divine beings or culture-heroes have owed their birth, to a mother without the co-operation of a father has been found to be widespread. For example, Isis, Cybele, Leto, Demeter, and Venus are all represented as " virgin " mothers. The Chinese culture-hero Hon Chi was born of a mother who conceived by treading in a footprint of God. The principal deity of the Uapes Indians of Brazil, Jurupari, was born of a virgin who conceived after drinking a draught of native beer.” AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIONS by Maurice Arthur Canney (278) “Virgin-mothers. Long before the time of Christ parthenogenesis, or reproduction by a virgin, was as familiar to ancient Greek, Egyptian and Oriental legend as it is to modern biology. Guatama Buddha was only one of many Oriental heroes whose mother was a virgin. The Egyptian Horus was conceived by Isis without the direct intervention of a male. Isis has been identified with the Greek Demeter, and Demeter also was a virgin, even when she bore a child, Persephone or Proserpine.” Heroes and Heroines of fiction by William Shepard Walsh (344) Of Course It Is worth noting that Isis was Syncretized / Equated with Demeter by many Greek and Roman authors Herodotus being an example already covered thus if Demeter is a Virgin and a mother than so too is Isis. “As Mithraism moved westward it proved a fertile ground for the addition of mystic meaning. Practically all the symbolism of Osiris was added to the Mithraic cultus even to the fact that Isis became the virgin mother of Mithras.” Religions Of The World by Gerald L. Berry (56) “Many parts of the Jesus story are not based on Yeishu or ben Stada. Most Christian denominations claim that Jesus was born on 25 December. Originally the eastern Christains believed that he was born on 6 January. The Armenian Christians still follow this early belief while most Christians consider it to be the date of the visit of the Magi. As pointed out already, Jesus was probably confused with Tammuz born of the virgin Myrrha. We know that in Roman times, the gods Tammuz, Aion and Osiris were identified. Osiris-Aion was said to be born of the virgin Isis on the 6 January and this explains the earlier date for Christmas. Isis was sometimes represented as a sacred cow and her temple as a stable which is probably the origin of the Christian belief that Jesus was born in a stable. Although some might find this claim to be farfetched, it is known as a fact that certain early Christian sects identified Jesus and Osiris in their writings. The date of 25 December for Christmas was originally the pagan birthday of the sun god, whose day of the week is still known as Sunday. The halo of light which is usually shown surrounding the face of Jesus and Christian saints, is another concept taken from the sun god.” -The Myth Of The Historical Veracity Of Jesus by ben yehoshua hayyim. http://mama.indstate.edu/users/nizrael/jesusrefutation.html Lastly before moving on it is worth noting that Osiris died before he could consumate his marraige to Isis and take her virginity: “The marriage of Isis and Osiris was a very brief one, so brief, indeed, that they were not able to consummate their union while Osiris was alive. "Come to me, far face who passed beyond without my having seen him," Isis says after the death of her husband, leading one to suppose that he was murdered before their wedding night.” Dr. Dimitri Meeks and Dr. Christine Favard-Meeks , Daily Life of the Egyptian Gods (69) “Isis, taking the shape as a falcon. The lightening-flash strikes and the gods are afraid. Isis wakes pregnant with the seed of her brother Osiris . She is uplifted, even she the widow, and her heart are glad with the seed of her brother Osiris. She says: ‘Oh gods! I am Isis the sister of Osiris who wept for the father of the gods, Osiris, who settled the slaughterings of the Two Lands. His seed is within my body, and it is as the son of the foremost of the Ennead who will rule this land and who will become heir to Geb and who will speak for his father and who will slays Seth, the enemy of his father Osiris, that I have molded the shape of the god within (my) egg. Come, Oh gods, so that you shall make his protection within my womb. Know in your hearts that your lord is he, this god, who is in his egg, blue(?) of form, the lord of the gods. Great is their beauty, namely (that of) the blue barbs(?) of the two plumes’.” Egyptologist Raymond Faulkner “Translation of Spell 148 of the Coffin Texts” The Journal of Egyptian Archeology 54: (40-44) “This Apis is the calf of a cow which is never afterwards able to have another. The Egyptian belief is that a flash of light descends upon the cow from heaven, and this causes her to receive Apis.” Herodotus, Histories 3.28.2 “The Apis, they say, is the animate image of Osiris, and he comes into being when a fructifying light thrusts forth from the moon and falls upon a cow in her breeding-season” Plutarch, Moralia, 368C “Apis—a black bull, marked by particular spots and different from other bulls in his tail and in his tongue—is the divinity of all the Aegyptian peoples. He is born only rarely, conceived not from mating cattle, as they say, but miraculously in a celestial fire. The day of his birth is particularly festive to the whole people." Pomponius Mela, Description of the World.” 1.9.58 (mid 1st cen. CE) "But Horus was not the only sun-god recognised by the Egyptians. His own father Osiris, the Saviour (of whom Horus was a re-incarnation) was born - also at the winter solstice - of an immaculate virgin, the goddess Neith who like Isis mother of Horus was known by the titles of Mother of God, Immaculate Virgin, Queen of Heaven, Star of the Sea, The Morning Star, The Intercessor." Wiiliam Williamson The Great Law: A Study of Religious Origins and Of The Unity Underlying Them (26) "...at the last, when [Osiris's] cult disappeared before the religion of the Man Christ, the Egyptians who embraced Christianity found that the moral system of the old cult and that of the new religion were so similar, and the promises of resurrection and immortality in each so much alike, that they transferred their allegiance from Osiris to Jesus of Nazareth without difficulty. Moreover, Isis and the child Horus were straightway identified with Mary the Virgin and her Son, and in the apocryphal literature of the first few centuries which followed the evangelization of Egypt, several of the legends about Isis and her sorrowful wanderings were made to centre round the Mother of Christ. Certain of the attributes of the sister goddesses of Isis were also ascribed to her, and, like the goddess Neith of Sais, she was declared to possess perpetual virginity. Certain of the Egyptian Christian Fathers gave to the Virgin the title 'Theotokos,' or 'Mother of God,' forgetting, apparently, that it was an exact translation of neter mut, a very old and common title of Isis." Dr. E.A. Wallis Budge, The Gods of Egypt (xv-xvi) And Isis was equated with Persephone by Plutarch: "In fact, men assert that Pluto is none other than Serapis and that Persephone is Isis" Isis-Persephone at Heraklion Museum So there can be no doubt that Persephone/Kore is a virgin mother of Aeon/Horus, Dionysus, and Jason regardless of any consort/husband she may have had. Also Last I Checked Jesus Christ had a father too Yahweh/Jehova so I guess by Greatraven's logic that exempts Jesus from being born of a virgin also... So in conclusion another villainous heathen against the faith has been vanquished in the name of Ra/Osiris/Horus. Also on a side note if you really think about it if Jesus had a father than how is it possible he was Virgin born? infact the whole concept of virgin birth taken literally is absurd for how could a woman give birth to a child without sexual intercourse and also Mormons believe that Elohim fucked Mary to produce Jesus and that she still remained a virgin even afterwards and Mormons have had to come up with elaborate rationalizations to avoid acknoleging this fact.... Which again only makes sense when understanding it from a symbolic or mythological perspective in terms of these "Virgin Mothers" symbolizing Virgo in the Zodiac or the Purity Chakra in the kundalini.
  12. What's up fellow preachers and defenders of the faith? how y'all doin? Back in 2018-2019 I found a website run by one Bahumuth: https://losthistory.com/ I think it's a pretty good website one of my favorites even however there are many problems with it for example there are obviously alot more "Dying and Rising Gods" than the ones that are mentioned on Bahumuth's website and there are far more parallels between Jesus and the other gods that are listed on his/her site also read this: "An inscription on a Seleucid Temple in Iran dated to the 200s B.C. reads “Anahita, as the Immaculate Virgin Mother of the Lord Mithra.” While there is only one primary source for the “virgin birth” claim, and it has been shown to be very difficult to locate, the quote about Mithras being born of the virgin was published in 1983 by Mary Boyce, a British scholar on Iranian languages and Zoroastrianism who is so respected, the Royal Asiatic Society award for outstanding contributions to the study of religion is called the “Boyce Prize.” https://lost-history.com/mithras.php Obviously there are alot more sources for this claim of Mithras Virgin Birth: "The Persian Counterpart of the Virginal-Wanton-motherly- warrior goddess Anahita" Dr Raphael Patai The Hebrew Goddess (137) "The basic belief in a virgin born saviour of the world must have become widely known throughout the near east in the achamenid period I.e. from the 6th century BC onward when almost all the mediteranian lands were under persian rule and it appears to have exerted some influence on Judeo-Christian thought" Astvat Ereta: The Avestan name for the Soasyant The Future Saviour of Zoroastrianism "According to some sources Mithras partner and Virgin mother is the angel goddess Anahita" Dr Payam Nabarz the Mysteries of Mithras The Pagan belief That Shaped The Christian World "in Mithraism as in popular Mazdaism Anahid the mother of Mithra is a virgin" Mohammad Ali Amir Moezzi (78) “In as much as this person Mehr (Mithra) was born of a virgin named Nahid Anahita (Immaculate) and in as much as the worship of Mithra and Anahita the virgin mother of Mithra was well known in the Achaemenian Period it is not yet clear weather the religion adopted by the Parthians and accepted in many parts of the world was a revival of the old Mithra worship (about 4,000 years ago) or was caused by a religious leader named Mithra.” Badi Badiozamani Iran: Rekindling A Lost Love (96) "The Saviour was born in the middle of the night between Saturday and Sunday, 24th and 25th of December, 272 BCE, and according to those who believed in Him from an Immaculate (Anahid) Virgin (Xosidhag) somewhere not far from lake Hamin, Sistan, Lived for 64 years among men, and ascended to His Father Ahura Mazda in 208 BCE" -Mohammad Moghdam https://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Mithraism/mithra.htm "An inscription from 200 BC dedicates a SELEUCID temple in western Iran to “Anahita, as the Immaculate Virgin Mother of the Lord Mithra”. The ANAHITA TEMPLE at Kangavar city of Kermanshah (a western province in present-day Iran)" https://iranian.com/2012/07/30/first-iranian-goddess-of-productivity-and-values/ A particularly interesting source Acharya found is this one: “As Mithraism moved westward it proved a fertile ground for the addition of mystic meaning. Practically all the symbolism of Osiris was added to the Mithraic cultus even to the fact that Isis became the virgin mother of Mithras.” Religions Of The World by Gerald L. Berry (56) Although this is the only source we have for the claim that Isis-Meri (Mary) is the Virgin mother of Mithras and it comes from a publication from 1950 it is worth noting that according to Herodotus Apollo and Diana were the childeren of Dionysus and Isis and Apollo was syncretized with both Horus and Mithras thus meaning Horus=Apollo=Mithras. Furthermore as primary sources found in the "Was Mithra Born of a Virgin Mother?" PDF relay Anahita was syncretized with many goddesses who were identified with Isis such as Aphrodite/Venus (Hathor) Athena/Minerva (Neith) and Inanna/Ishtar (Astarte) also Isis and Anahita as I have found from primary source material I have researched were both closely Identified with the planet Venus thus meaning Isis-Hathor, Aphrodite/Venus, Athena (Neith) and Ishtar are all identicle with Anahita rendering them Virgin Mothers of Mithras too and thus validating the quote by Berry Bahumuth also claims that Krishna wasn't born of a virgin: https://lost-history.com/krishna.php Primary sources found in the following link however beg to differ: file:///home/chronos/u-1bc73d42013b37ccb358fad137bb9237b796cac9/MyFiles/Downloads/Zeitgeist%20The%20movie%20Companion%20source%20guide.pdf Lastly Bahumuth has these things to say: One of the most predominant complaints Hoffmann has about mythicism is that while he himself is a "lapsed Catholic", today's mythicists are supposedly influenced by the "New Atheism" or "anti-theism" of Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and P.Z. Myers, which is hostile to religion in general, and in the case of Sam Harris, Bill Maher, and Acharya S, Islam in particular. Richard Carrier is an anti-theist who habitually attacks religion, but as far left Progressive he does not fall into the same Islamophobic pit that Harris, Maher, and Acharya. So in other words accusing anyone who criticises Islam as being "Islamophobic" Also here is a really bad study on Mithraism he cited on Shitter (Twitter) but I'm having trouble finding it. Next the Dawk blocker!!!! My cousin Tyler saw my 2 articles Zeitgeist Debunked? "Are you sure about that?" - John Cena and Article R4411 and loved them both suggesting I get an editor and send them straight to Dawkins since he is fan of his work but I am aware of Achraya planning to send sources for her work to him: https://stellarhousepublishing.com/dawkins-tweets-jesus-mythicism/ Whatever became of that? did she send her primary sources and work to him? If so did he respond? How did he react? Lastly another "Demon" to exorcise this time by the name of Glenn Andrews what would be your response to him? The “virgin birth” of Buddha Did the story of the virgin birth of Jesus have its origin in older religious beliefs, like Buddhism? A while ago I started chipping away at a blog entry on the claim that the virgin birth of Jesus is just a copy cat tale used by the early Christian church, borrowing this fictional element of the life of Christ from countless other myths. The view, although not well attested in scholarly literature, gained some popularity with online sceptics with the release of the sensationalist but error-ridden documentary Zeitgeist. You will not find this claim in serious scholarly critiques of religious belief, but the sad fact is, sceptics with an online platform and lots of anger to spend often gain influence among a credulous audience that simply doesn’t know any better. I’ve decided not to put it all into one blog entry. Every now and then I’ll blog on one of the figures that the virgin birth Jesus was supposedly copied from. (For that reason, please do not waste your time replying by saying “sure, THAT connection might not be correct, but what about this OTHER myth that Jesus was copied from?” Like I said, I’ll do them one at a time.) Candidate #1: Gotama (Gautama) Buddha Siddhartha Gautama was his name. His mother was Queen Maha Maya, and his father was, surprise surprise, Queen Maha Maya’s husband, King Suddhodana. Here’s a link to a forum where a confused person had heard that Buddha was said to be born of a virgin, so wanted to ask some people who might know. No evidence was provided. The closest that anyone got was saying: “Yes, there are myths of a virgin birth.” Where are these myths and how old are they? We’ll have to hunt for ourselves, it seems. In the Wikipedia page on Maya (mother of Buddha), here’s what we find: This refers to a dream that Queen Maya had after trying for many years to have a baby with her husband. In the dream, an elephant passed into the side of her body, and then shortly after, she was pregnant with Siddhartha Gautama. If the writer or writers of the life of Buddha had really wanted to say that he was born of a virgin, it would not have been difficult. The reality is, they wrote that he was born to a woman who had been married for twenty years, without so much as a hint that she and her husband were abstaining from sex. Head over to the sacred texts website and read about the birth of Gautama Buddha. Do you see any reference to a virgin birth? If there is any parallel between the birth of Gautama and anything in the Bible, the closest thing would probably be the story of Abraham and Sarah and their son Isaac, which is not a virgin birth story at all. Abraham and Sarah, like Maya and Suddhodana, had been trying for years to have a child, and then due to a miracle, they succeed. We can’t use this example as a transference from Buddhism to Judaism or Christianity, however, simply because of the great age of the account of Abraham and Sarah. It is older than the story of Buddha, and geographically very far removed. As an intellectually honest sceptic, the next time you see the claim repeated that the virgin birth of Jesus is a fictional element borrowed from mythological stories including the birth of Gautama, please stop the claimant in his/her tracks and ask for documentation of the claim about Buddha. If the source is a book or website that makes the claim, then follow up with the question, “and what is their evidence?” One by one let’s wipe this meme out. (If you found this blog post interesting, you will probably enjoy this podcast episode on the supposed connection between Jesus and Osiris.) Glenn Peoples http://www.rightreason.org/2009/the-virgin-birth-of-buddha/ also to these comments found on the same article? GEORGE MAHARAGE January 24, 2014 at 8:40 pm I discovered this site by accident. However this gives me the opportunity to research in to some “facts” that I read in, of all things, Western Classical Culture. Came across this Greek Script that went on to explain Buddha’s Birth to a virgin. The story goes to suggest that King Suddhodana was impotent and worried about the inability to bear a son to take over the throne. Queen Maha Maya was frustrated and suddenly announced that she has conceived a son, fathered by her husband. Buddhist history records this announcement as the Queen described the conception as a white baby elephant entered her body. She may have said exactly that but it was in fact a “decent” way of explaining the entry of the husbands semen in to her body. The king apparently had a large ejaculation after a long period of drought. That she was virgin was suggested because of the King’s impotence. There was a hint to suggest that the father was some one else. It was popular knowledge that the queen has been away visiting her relatives with her maids for sometime before she was conceived. I wanted to bring up these findings in this forum because so far no one else has brought up these facts. I read this 45 years ago in some rare books with limited access to ordinary folks. It was taboo to discuss this in Buddhist circles. Attempts to discus this with even the highest of Buddhist scholars was quickly terminated, often ridiculing the story and even dismissing it as Blasphemy. Such is the strength of 2500 years systematic brain washing that keeps the truth hidden for ever! Any Comments? TIM KNAPP February 16, 2018 at 2:26 pm Thanks for the blog on this topic. I just ran into this same argument with someone about the virgin birth being borrowed from Buddhism and was looking for some information about it. It looks like no one has refuted your article to date FOSTER L BIRCH December 28, 2019 at 5:13 am Glenn, You are barking up the wrong tree. Early Buddhist texts in India were written on palm leaves; none survive. But stone carvings on Stupas that date to 50bc show the story of the immaculate conception and birth from the side. The stone panel shows an elephant god as father and Buddha being born from the side. GLENN January 22, 2020 at 10:50 am Foster, just curious, did ancient carvings of women have labels like “virgin” and “not virgin”? *Sigh more Blasphemy against our Creed of Osiris/Horus Krst I know... Also the heathen Glenn Andrews has more articles and a podcast Full Of SHEEEEETTTT!!!! Merry Mithras! Have Yourself a Very Pagan Christmas! (not) http://www.rightreason.org/2008/episode-019-osiris-and-jesus/ One more thing before I go I saw some comments on Godless Engineers Youtube Channel and made a response: Irish Stew2 years ago the resurrection is a fallacy that stems from a misinterpretation of an astronomical fact that has existed longer than the fairytales written in the bible.when the earth reaches the apex of its orbit on the winter solstice, the sun appears to remain in the same place for 3 days until the earth starts coming round the other side of its orbit and the sun appears to rise in a different part of the sky. 'for 3 days he rested and the son was risen again' - substitute 'son' for the correct word 'sun'. as there was no real printed text in those days and somebody mistook the 'son' for the 'sun', this is how the myth of jesus rising from the dead was started. Show less 4 REPLY Hide 2 replies Michael Flores 2 years ago This is one of the few atheist arguments, that I, as an atheist, firmly oppose anyone using. I've read D.m. Murdocks' book "Christ in Egypt". It's in the same section as the "Bigfoot and ufos' book sin the bookstore for good reasons. REPLY clayton veno2 days ago (edited) @Michael Flores Quite frankly I dont care about your opinion of Murdock's work nor if an "Obstinant Heathen" or "Pagan" against the faith such as yourself opposes it I've read Christ In Egypt and it is an amazing book and last I checked the section a book is found in has no bearing on its validity. In fact I think Acharya did this on purpouse although I can't remember why.
  13. More along the lines of Timothy Freke in terms of a symbolic view of Christianity and the stories of Jesus.
  14. Honestly, the 1st two thoughts that came to my mind as I quickly scrolled through the post were, (1) when do you find time to sleep and eat? (2) have you ever been diagnoised with mania, OCD, or other condition? Frankly, it is overwhelming. Also I had lots of time to sleep and eat you seriously think I was only focused on this? lol
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