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Everything posted by alreadyGone

  1. As I fell away from the Christian belief, it was distressing. I didn't want that. It came very late in life for me and it was a difficult thing for me to accept. So I had long discussions with several devout (Protestant) believers and ministers. I began to notice that every one of them at some point declared (with some minor variation): "well see... that's where most Americans/Christians have it wrong.. Now I've read the bible twice, and I pray over my bible studies for divine guidance, and I can tell you that what this (specific scripture, or theological issue) really means is..." Isn't that what you are saying here also? That you are better educated in the scriptures, that you have a really tight, special relationship with God? And therefore you just know... ... you know, the truth and all.
  2. Oh my my ..... what would Jesus do? Mathew 5:30 ???
  3. None of which even remotely pertains to the question I asked. I give up. Discussion with you is like herding cats. I suspect you of deliberate obfuscation. I do not believe you to be sincere or honest.
  4. The "spirit of a horse" = the animal's will to continue behaving as it once did. Common usage would be to express that a human trainer or handler has spent time invoking the animal's more cooperative behavior. "Mean spirited" = a person's temperament coupled with their personal willingness to act in ways toward others that are not destructive to that other person. "Presentation was spirited .." ? Really? that = a presentation which was energetic, evocative, exciting. You start with facts. Then you segue into blather.. Was it intentional?
  5. Walter has covered that ground. I've nothing of value to add.
  6. "Religion", Ed? Why would I care about religion, whether I am a Christian believer or not? Is the matter not the absolute existence or non-existence of a soverign God? Science is objective. Religion is subjective. Unless one can posit an objective reason to believe in God, then that too is subjective.
  7. I still want that jet-pack they promised us in the '60's.
  8. Walter, you're making my head hurt.
  9. Love is therefore entirely subjective. So how then can we rationally use "love" as the centerpoint of an entire belief system on which to govern our lives?
  10. Humans managed to discover and teach that simply washing your hands before eating or providing medical care to another is wise and extremely beneficial. You would think that ol' Jesus could have managed that much while he walked among us.
  11. What is "love", Edgar? I believe that you could ask 100 people and you would get 112 answers. With much disagreement and equivocation among them. Surely something so devoid of clear definition is less than the end-all/be-all it is commonly held to be. Christians are fond of expressing "God is love". If you do not or cannot have a clear concrete definition of "love" then how can you use it as a definitive in the sense of religious belief?
  12. In my experience Christians believe marriage to be among the most holy of human interactions and customs. They always express the belief that marriage is instituted directly by the hand of God. Young female Christians upon engagement always credit God with presenting to them their divinely-ordained mate for life. Usually with an expression "God is so good and faithful!" or some such. If this were true, could we not expect that marriage would be more durable, more resilient to human frailty and weakness? Why would Christians be so fully accepting of the role government has taken in the marriage contract as final arbiter and judge? Over the years I knew (only) one Christian couple who sought a minister to marry them without a license. The search took about two years, with most ministers refusing to even discuss it.
  13. Focus??? Some of you folks sure get around.
  14. Walter... that distinction had not ocurred to me at all. Thank you for that.
  15. I dare you to use that excuse in a church service..
  16. Told them, and then left the female alone to ponder all the wondrous superlatives that God used to describe that forbidden knowledge embedded into a piece of fruit. Fruit hanging there before her to be plucked with a simple gesture. The female... that gender with an innate thirst for mystery and novelty.
  17. DarkBishop has presented us with a concept: "another thing and all knowing God probably would have zapped out of us [if he really existed]." This has probably been discussed on this site before today, I do not know. It is a fascinating aspect of "the God question" to me. To my limited perceptions it seems there are various aspects of the nature of humankind which an all-knowing+all-loving God would not have wired into our being. But then, would a God have given us flatulence as a fundamental part of our digestive process? Biology (and the biological evolution of a species) is what it is. It doesn't care how we feel about it.
  18. It's interesting to me that the best possible time for a woman physically to bear children is when she is very young. In her late teens even. Some women (and their male spouse) are mentally and emotionally ready and capable to raise children at such a young age. Surely this is the exception however... And yet, the biological imperative for a woman to bear her children very young is what it is. How does all that fit into the majority of Christian believers' opinion of marriage with regard to their Christian faith?
  19. That makes sense Edgar. A vow of lifelong loyalty and fidelity should mean something. Else what is the point or the meaning of the word "vow"? Putting Christian beliefs aside for the moment.. In the U.S. at least, marriage has many other implications and consequences, as you know. Long before the first licenses for marriage were issued, people married anyway. And they do so today also. In some states, in the absence of a marriage license, when a man and woman share a home and live together for greater than some period (it varies from state to state) then they are married in common law as decreed by the state, without regard to the wishes of the two people involved. In some states, if a man and woman present themselves socially and publicly as "a married couple", the same applies: the state decrees them married. So-called "common-law" marriage is every bit as "real" legally as a state-licensed marriage. When a license for marriage is issued by the state, a three-way legal agreement is formed in which the state becomes (legally) part of the marriage. That's why you have to petition the state for divorce, and why divorce is adjudicated according to terms determined solely by the state. When the state issues any license, for anything, the license grants a legal privilege. This means that the activity in question is legal to do only if you hold the license, and not legal to do if you do not hold a license. (I specify "man and woman" in regard to the above because such laws regarding "common law marriage" pre-date same-sex marriage, and I do not know if the laws have been updated or amended since the advent of same-sex marriage. It presents an interesting question or two...)
  20. What is your opinion Edgar?
  21. I'm curious what you may mean by "valid".
  22. Faith as a mustard seed.. and a correct attitude, and sincerity, and that all-important "personal relationship with Jesus". Probably there are other qualifications that only the true gnostics can understand.
  23. The Bible claims (Genesis 11:1-9) that God created the various spoken languages specifically to confound the mind of man.
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