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Everything posted by alreadyGone

  1. Child sex abuse coverup, protecting the organization regardless of all else, massive hordes of wealth... Which other cult-like church does that remind you of?
  2. "I think it is really ironic... that an organization which has long predicted that the end of the world is imminent, and predicted the end four times, the last time in 1975, would create a long-term investment portfolio with real-estate, that they carefully maintain. And made a great deal of money from it.. "
  3. Well he's trying to reform us. But he doesn't want to get his hands dirty.
  4. “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” (Deut. 4:2.)
  5. Read Revelations again sir. Nowhere in the Bible does the term "the Great Tribulation" appear, in that form, capitalized, and presented as the definite article. This is a modern construct, created as a modern twist on this narrative to frighten people. Perfect example of how the Bible is a collection of myths, manipulated by people over time to mean what they wish it to mean, to manipulate and arouse.
  6. This is truth, reality and wisdom. We humans have an instinct for self-preservation and survival, same as every other animal. If it were otherwise, none of us would be here now to discuss it.
  7. As I've all too gradually come through the process(es) of de-conversion, I've found greater peace in the realization that belief in any human spirit is speculation on the same level and of the same nature as belief in a god. After all, isn't it the same thing? I could be wrong of course, there may exist some part of us which lives and exists outside the physical temporal self. But as near-universal as is such belief I don't believe that anyone who lives now or has ever lived has had any real reason to believe in such a thing. It truly seems to me that people believe in a human spirit because they want to. To believe in a human spirit enables belief in the possibility we can forever know and commune with those close to us. It allows us to believe that the things we hope to learn and experience may yet be learned, those experiences yet gained, even when we do not do so in our present lives. When I believed in a God and the promise of eternal life, I sometimes imagined planting an endless hardwood forest and then watching it grow. There is much, very much I love about this life. Given a choice I would live forever. I see and believe in infinite possibilities for my human self, given time and physical viability. The list of things I would wish to do, to create, to learn and experience seems infinite. But time, the limits of this physical body, and the never-ending contention with other humans is what it is. We can wish it away, deny it, or hope for better, but we will all meet our end and eventually decompose into dust. Whether there is anything more we will all discover one way or another.
  8. And as trite as it may seem, none of us knows if we will ever live to "old age". Today could be your final day. Stuff happens.
  9. Simply, and sincerely... In my early 60's with no family, more and more each day I look forward to the time I won't care any longer about anything in this world. The concept of "eternal rest" has a lot of appeal. I've seen enough here. Mean people suck.
  10. No response to such a simple, direct question: why do you believe?
  11. I do not believe that you honestly believe that. I do not/did not see anyone here becoming offended by your cites from the Bible. What does irritate some here, including myself I will admit, is your steadfast refusal to answer the simple question "why do you believe the Bible to be truth"? To make statements such as that of yours which I quoted and highlighted is merely a passive-aggressive way to assert that "I have the truth on my side, and that truth is self-evident". We're all familiar with that stance, and many of us, including myself at one time in our past indulged in that same sort of tacit deception in support of our belief in the Scriptures. That the Bible is true is not self-evident, no matter how you (or I) may feel about it. Most Muslims feel very strongly that the Koran is self-evidently true also, but their emotional investment in that belief doesn't make it so. Bear in mind if you will please, that everyone involved in discussion with you here did believe the Bible to be truth at one time. We all have our individual experience and we all found reason individually over the course of time to discard that belief. We are just curious about your personal reasoning which leads you to believe that the bible is truth. It isn't a "trick question". And it would seem that if you have an actual reason to believe, a reason other than the way you feel about it, then it would be no problem for you to posit that reason here for the benefit of all concerned... if.
  12. I've learned to be wary of the man who holds strong belief with no real reason other than "because".
  13. But he will get credit towards his place in the eternal kingdom regardless. I suspect that is the motivation. A salesman earns commission only when he's persistent enough in the face of closed doors to increase his average sales. A JW or a LDS disciple will earn points either way.
  14. Absent "original sin", the Gospel is meaningless. The entire creation myth and the tale of Adam and Eve and the fall of mankind is predicated on something supposedly reported by a man named Abram/Abraham who supposedly lived about 5,000 years ago. There is no objective reason to believe that this man Abram ever lived. There is even less reason to believe anything he supposedly said about God appearing to him to tell him the tale of creation and the Garden. The reasoning among believers is that these things are true because it is written in the Bible. The reasoning among believers that the Bible is true is the belief that God gave the content in the Bible to mankind. The reasoning among believers for belief in God is that the Bible says that He exists. Human beings see what they believe... even when it's predicated on circular logic.
  15. I may have tee-shirts printed with: [ Official Mark of the Beast ]
  16. Anyone drink chamomile tea? I find it very helpful.
  17. BroRando, It's common to see through our individual perspective and believe that such degradation is increasing. In reality, all the things cited in these two scriptures have always been true. There has not been a time in human history where the behaviors cited in those two scripture were not so. I've noted more than once that as I'm now in the final third of life (of an average lifespan that is), and we have had the internet now for 25 years, I've seen more of human beings and human nature than I ever wanted to know. Yes, in some parts of the western world 50 years ago you could more easily give a ride to a hitchhiker. That is an example of seeing the world through your own personal lens and drawing conclusions from your personal emotional reasoning. The Bible is purported to apply to the entire earth, it does not specify the United States, or Kansas, or only the better parts of NYC. Here in the US though, violent crime is actually less now than in most of the nation's past. The statistics are there for anyone to see. Human beings have always been evil and brutal by nature. Nothing has changed, unfortunately. Today however, we are all connected and a very large part of humanity walks about with a portable video production system and the means to propagate that production almost immediately to the rest of humanity. All that is ugly and disgusting about human nature is laid bare for all to see. And, there are so many more of us now. And therein lies the critical difference. More of us competing for the most desirable living space, more of us competing for available resources. I personally have a dark view of humanity and I trust no one. I recognize though that life where I am is far less evil and ugly than on much of the rest of the planet.
  18. Is that, in your perception what I am doing?
  19. Do you not understand? It has been written. Sheesh.... try to keep up
  20. My earnest belief is that I need better, more powerful pitchforks.
  21. To my thinking, 'hell' and the diversity of belief around that word is an excellent example of the fact that Christians have no consensus on the most basic tenets of the faith. @BroRando, what is the reason for this, in your belief? If the Bible is the revealed word of God, and His purpose for us in this life is to be proven worthy of eternal life in company with God, why does God not provide more clarity? I (facetiously) offered the question earlier, how does one attain wisdom equal to that of a serpent? To my mind that is one example of the endless ambiguity and allegory within the Scripture. Of what value is it to admonish us to attain a state of being which is then not defined, with guidance not given?
  22. Assuming for the sake of discussion that the Bible, including the book of Revelations were truth.. The nature of hell has been debated endlessly. You know of course that the Jewish religion for example does not include belief in an eternal burning hell. The origin of the word 'hell' is varied and diverse. Those who are determined to convince others to share their particular religious belief need to posit a compelling incentive to do so. Commitment to the Christian faith requires effort and sacrifice in this temporal life. Convincing others to share that commitment is work. An eternal punishment of burning agony is a heavy stick to wield.
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