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Crove

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Everything posted by Crove

  1. Hello Josh, I think it started when read the whole New Testament for the first time. I didn't find any contradictions in the Bible at first but found that most Christians "cherry-pick" bible teachings (pick one teaching over the other) to suit their "antichristian" lifestyle which is ironic. By biblical standards such attitude is hypocrisy, one of the worst offenses a person can make according to the Bible. This makes most christians anti-christ, anti-god, anti-bible which is the biggest irony of all. Then comes the contradictions - if christians cherry-pick teachings then these teachings are probably in conflict / contradiction with one another and true enough, that is the case. The huge esteem of worldly wealth in Proverbs that most christians love vs the very low, evil value put to money by jesus and somewhat held in neutral ground by apostle paul. And many other contradictions - this led to me to the realization that the bible is either NOT divinely inspired, even demonic, or might actually be divinely inspired but serving a different purpose - to test humanity. One thing led to the other if you got false teachings in the bible, what else is false?
  2. You might be surprised that also happens among Christians. There's also something in between where Christians limit the miracles they want to believe. Like they'll only believe miracles about money or finances and health. Anything beyond must be from the devil or occult, witchcraft, etc. Then there's Christians who absolutely don't belive in miracles nor the supernatural / paranormal. They only believe in their salvation, money, health, God.
  3. I think I should also do a 1 on 1 discussion with Christians about their miracles. Talk to them in their "language" so they can be more honest. Maybe they'll tell everything in more private situation.
  4. No problem. I suppose threads like these are not expected to go on for long without the biases tilting towards the side they are all made up stories or someone not telling everything.
  5. I was fortunate enough to have seen through the false teachings in Christianity little by little throughout many years. The money / mammon idolatry in mainstream Christianity led me to find that apostle Paul is an "anti-christ" character - literally preaching stuff that is "anti" or in opposition to the teachings of the christ. And finally to the realization that the Christian religion is a Roman fabrication by none other than the old Roman Empire. When the final blow struck, I was numb to the effect. My mind is still screwed like what happens AFTER we die.
  6. It's a huge problem I think. We could have wasted our whole lives, time and energy for nothing or worse, every thing we ever did served to damage our reality. Not knowing if we ever did.
  7. I never personally experienced any of those financial or relationship or medical miracles I hear in the vast majority of Christian testimonies. So naturally, I'm a skeptic, except in one case I oversaw personally, a relative went from poor to rich in just one year. Incredible life time opportunity from a complete stranger. Their wealth is real, not bogus, not scammers, working real jobs and real careers now. They prayed for such miracle for a very long time and one day it just happened.
  8. Let's leave those stuff out of the discussion, can potentially ruin the thread
  9. Sounds like a good thing if it is true. I only got out of Christianity when I started finding so many errors in the Bible. But my belief in miracles (alternately, paranormal or supernatural) remained. Because my leaving Christianity behind didn't change my experiences with these.
  10. I agree with you, it's just a lot easier to say "supernatural" Than instead say "predictions that follow from a well established model are proven false, so that they require further investigation that could to a rethinking of a model" It's simply a choice of words. And "Supernatural" or "Paranormal" much more quickly conveys the meaning and easily distinguishes it from well-known and accurately modeled phenomenon.
  11. Many of the testimonies I heard were before the internet age. Especially from the senior pastors, many of their "random help" testimonies happened during the 1980's and earlier.
  12. Ironically, there's a lot of Christians who doesn't believe in the supernatural unless it concerns money or health. Their biased beliefs are self-serving. It's one of the things that pushed me to investigate deeper into the religion and eventually find many errors.
  13. Good answer, thanks! When I was still a Christian, it did come to my attention that the vast majority of miracle testimonies are about money / opportunity and medical miracles. Nothing quite remarkable I would say. As even non-believers can also have financial or medical "miracles" and quite likely many of them have logical explanations to it. But God giving people names to help. Leaves me in pieces. Actually, if Christians believe in false truths and those who spread false truths gets these miracles, then their "supernatural provisions" are from malevolent sources.
  14. True for the most part but there are still a few types of miracles I still cannot debunk. Things that seem to involve telepathy, yes, in Christianity.
  15. I guess we're simply using different words for the SAME thing But I prefer to use "supernatural" to differentiate unexplained phenomenon (even if it's still a natural process) against phenomenon that can be explained in full extent by science. Just to set the two apart distinctly. I've always been interested in Magic / Occult even when I was still a Christian but kept certain boundaries concerning it. But now I guess I can let loose some of the boundaries. I still practice extreme care on the matter.
  16. I've been trying to debunk these present-day miracles. Most medical miracles can be explained with science. Material prosperity can also be explained with simple economics (money and wealth does not materialize out of thin air) Apparitions seem interesting BUT they really don't affect people's lives in a big way. But these "anonymous helpers at a distance as total strangers" continues to baffle me. In many years of trying to debunk these, I haven't found an answer yet. Ironically, the last place to look would be the occult, something I have avoided as a former Christians but now I'm an Ex-Christian, nothing's holding me back anymore.
  17. Not knowing the truth is difficult predicament on the mind though. Really screws the mind.
  18. I left Christianity and religion but I never ceased to believe in the supernatural. Does an ex-Christian turn their back completely on them? My belief in the supernatural changed a little bit though, in terms of the source, where it's coming from. Now, I don't know where it's coming from and my head is in pretzels just trying to figure it out.
  19. In many miracles I've heard and one from a relative, the anonymous help came from far away. Some of the help even came from another country. They didn't publish nor wrote their prayer requests nor needs in the internet (some of the testimonies I've heard happened before the internet age). The anyonymous help also claimed that God told them the name of the people they must help. I really can't wrap my head around it.
  20. I just did! The present-day Christians miracles is one I still can't wrap my head around. Particularly those of supernatural provisions. I practice critical thinking and it's critical thinking that got me away from Christianity. As a critical thinker, I don't dismiss claims that easily, I investigate. But my investigation of such miracles is only leading me to things like the occult.
  21. Thanks, that was strange feature. Haven't seen one before but I respect your rules!
  22. Thanks! I agree with you about "modern medical miracles" As they can easily be explained with science. The "anonymous help miracles" from complete strangers, as immediate consequence of prayers is something I cannot wrap my head around. These strangers did receive instructions from "God" to provide help. Even getting the name of the person to help accurately. Christians don't usually lie in testimonies. They believe and fear hell enough not to lie deceive the congregation and from personally witnessing my relatives who had these experiences.
  23. Correction: (can't figure out how to edit my post). I meant some of the Christians who gave these miraculous testimonies are relatives of mine. I've personally witnessed their lives change overnight from a huge anonymous / random help from strangers! So they're not making these up.
  24. Although I am no longer a Christian, after being a Christian for 20 years, I really can't shake the reality or facts about miracles many Christians experience and share through testimonies. Some of them are relatives and seeing a profound change in their prosperity and generally, their lives literally overnight, they're definitely not lying about it. My specific questions are miracles like someone praying for a lucrative opportunity or financial support and the very next day, they get an anonymous donor or anonymous tip, granting exactly their prayers. How did that happen? Telepathy? The devil? Magic? A comprehensive "Occult infrastructure" accessible via certain (deceived) mindset or "faith"? When many more people are experiencing the same thing, it's beyond uncanny but something is at work beyond human perception. I have doubts that Christians are sourcing their supernatural provisions from a benevolent supreme being but rather a malevolent one as mainly their actions serve to support those in power who oppresses the weak. That is simply my opinion.... Not necessarily supported by comprehensive studies on the matter of supernatural, magic, etc. I believe it is real, there is no changing that but where does it come from? Thanks!
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