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Authentic Christian Believer
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Abiyoyo last won the day on January 30 2010

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About Abiyoyo

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    Life in the EX-C
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    I like nothing. Nothing I like. Nothing is everything to me, and everything to me is nothing. This makes what I like nothing, and nothing what I like. I like everything then, even though it is nothing.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Christian God

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  1. That's just plain illogical and cherrypicking. No hell, no heaven...no sin, no sinner...no savior, no salvation... Why is believing in Santa silly when we only have limited sight. Because there is not any kind of anything to suggest there are real flying reindeer or A guy in a red suite flying around giving out presents, jumping through peoples chimneys, except the story that we have past on to our children from generation to generation. Now, there are things to suggest there is a God, over thousands of years of people's witness and testimonies.
  2. Okay, well, God is real to me based on history and my personal belief, and he hasn't performed any miracles for me. So, in my opinion, God is real. In your opinion, God is not real. So, it's a matter of opinion, not fact, right? Ah. So the miracles started because the disciples believe Jesus was about to come and they believed the miracles into existence? They saw what they wanted to see? I was referring to John the Baptist, prior prophets, etc. Then stop doubting and stop fighting against God's will. I'm not doubting
  3. So, you feel that if God is real, then He should make Himself known in a tangible way so that people can experience him? I guess it's a bit too much to ask........................ It's not that it's much to ask, it's just not relevant in evidence of existence. For centuries, we knew that there was something that caused sickness in people that must have been physically on objects, yet it was only at a certain time that people advanced enough to be able to produce technology to see bacteria. So, bacteria always existed, yet we never saw it for centuries.
  4. Few are chosen, and to hell with the rest. Okay, the OP was John 3:16, which is the core of the whole thing, right? Believe and live with God. A believer in a God that actually would exist and actually would show himself and evidence of his existence. It would be a real God, not an imaginary one. That's my point, it's not real to you specifically because it isn't tangible in your life. That's not evidence, that's opinion. Aren't they? Btw, didn't Christianity supposedly start with a big miracle? Didn't the Pentecost bring in a whole bunch of people because of a miracle? Didn't Jesus say that miracles would follow those who believe? Why would it be different now? Why aren't people allowed to be doubting Thomas and ask for physical evidence, and also receive it? No, Christianity started before Christ, with handful of people believing God was sending the Messiah. So God is not doing it because of what you believe could go wrong. But you have no trust in that it could go right. In other words, it's your doubt that's holding back the miracle, not my belief that such a miracle would do the right thing. No, no doubt he is capable of such a feat over here. Eh? I don't understand. I think that people have come up with thousands of excuses to why God does not show evidence or do miracles. But I think the simple truth is that God doesn't exist, or God just doesn't interact that way. Believing in a God that can do miracles but have a million excuses for why he never does, is just silly. Why is believing in a creator silly when we only have limited sight. It is proven over history that we have limits and dont see past those limits until someone, something enables us to see an extended view. I'm sure 2000 years ago, normal everyday people would not have been able to contemplate space travel. How can you scientifically place something as hands down non-existent, knowing the human mind and perception is limited?
  5. Loving the metaphor isn't that bad of a thing, unless of course, one person tells you that in order to love the metaphor, you have to do this, or that, or act this way, look this way, talk this way. Then, the metaphor becomes the golden cow....
  6. So, you feel that if God is real, then He should make Himself known in a tangible way so that people can experience him?
  7. To me it would. But I can only assume that you don't believe me. Of course, not everything can be considered evidence. I do have a high standard for what evidence would be required to convince me, but still, there is a point that God could cross with amazing miracles to make me a believer. If my son is healed and can walk again, you bet there will be thousands of people converting. Whats up Han's, long time, .... So, for you, it would take an amazing miracle to 'make you a believer'. But, then, what kind of 'believer'. You said thousands of people would get converted if that happened, which would imply that because it hasn't happened those thousands are doomed? I personally think with the history of our outings that this miracle would be the thing that would make you a 'practicing' Christian again, not necessarily a believer. I think everyone believes on some kind of level, some are active, some are not.
  8. Like I said, even if there were substantial evidence to prove God/Jesus exists, I don't think it would make much difference; the reason being is because no matter what evidence is provided, evidence is only measured in part because it battles with what we 'want' to believe. If someone told you there was a ghost that was on a video, Would you just watch the video and then believe in Ghosts? I say probably not. But, you would want to experience this phenomenon and see it with your own eyes. Granted, that is not irrational, but in reality, that ghost is something that we haven't fully been able to understand in all our technologies, science, data, videos, etc. So, to pinpoint belief in a ghost appearance to determine it is real is probably not the most effective strategy. So, then, all that is left is the debate, criticism, truths and lies. It's up to us to determine on an individual level whether ghosts are real or fake. But, I say ghosts are most likely real because of all the findings surrounding the phenomenon. Why can't God/Jesus be the same?
  9. Would it make a difference to you if there was evidence....? (I assume the answer is no)
  10. Right on Michael........................... I am beginning to this this clearly......... I think allah might be the right god. Allah 'covers ' everybody! Muslims believe that there is no other God besides Allah and that he is the God of the universe. They claim that not only is he their God, but that he is the God of the Jews, the Christians and everyone else. Listen to this scripture!! "He is Allah beside Whom there is none other worthy of worship, The King, The Holy, The Peace, The Watcher, The All Mighty, The Compeller, The Supreme. Glory be to Allah! He is above all that they try to associate with Him as partners." [Holy Quran 59:23] Believer, we have been serving the wrong god all these years!!! Allah is the same God of Christianity, and Islam wrote about Jesus, said he was a great prophet. They believed he would be the one to come back and defeat Satan. Muhammad was the 'last' prophet from God. So, it not that you believed in the wrong God all these years, maybe the people surrounding you affected your decisions to seek the truth. Truth is, they all run hand in hand.
  11. But LNC, that goes back to the Jews. So, in short, Anne Frank will be punished in your opinion, right? You said earlier that you didn't think she would go to hell, in which I agree. Ironically, I hold a good deal of Catholic theology within my independant Christian walk. But, now I'm a little confused with where you stand on the topic?
  12. So it's only belief in God that's important then? Not Jesus specifically? I don't know how God would handle this truthfully, her being a Jew, yet faithful. I revert back to the natural branches vs. the grafted branches explanation.....and that effectively God hardened Israel so that the Gentiles could come in. I am not sure if many theologians even have a definitive answer. Depends on which denomination of theology the person attends. Augustine uplifted the Jews and claimed they have there part with God.
  13. It is obvious that a Christian's reluctance to answer the question has more to do with foreknowledge of the questions that will inevitably follow their answer and the Christian's desire not to be put in a position of having to answer those questions, as opposed to having such a holy, pious and subservient demeanor in relation to the almighty judgement of God, as you have suggested in the comment above. The reason for the perpetual dodge is clearly due to the fact that all roads lead to faith for the Christian believer, and faith, in general, is the point where Christianity begins to unravel itself from logic and starts to smack of the deliberate burial of ones head in the proverbial sand in an effort to maintain the all-important salvation that comes only through faith in Jesus Christ. Your implication that the Christian is merely cautious of putting themselves in God's place - judging others, is truly ridiculous. I find it hard to believe that you would expect anyone here to buy that excuse. If "only God knows what sends one to hell", then how the hell do you know if YOU are going to heaven or hell? It seems to me that the Christian's job is entirely wrapped up in letting others know that they are "lost" - going to hell - and then telling them what they must do to be saved. Thusly, on one hand, you all seem to know who is lost and who is not, as well as what they should do to remedy the situation, but when put in the position you're now in and knowing that more intense questions will follow, seem strangely and conveniently confused about who is lost and going to hell, or what they must do to be saved. I have said it already, here in this thread, and I will repeat it again. The tactics being used in the last 10 or so pages to avoid giving a clear answer, are elementary and as transparent as the emperor's new clothes! I'm amazed that there is no limit to the depth of the hole you guys are all willing to dig for yourself. My head is spinning at the lack of concern for the damage being done to your credibility as honest and open-minded individuals who cherish "truth" above personal ego. Your salvation does not lie in the protection of old ideas as truth, no matter the cost to your integrity. Your salvation is found in none other than the ability to discover the truth at any cost, including the sacrifice of old ideas and personal egos. Knowledge is salvation. I, ....didn't say that comment you quoted me?? I'm not digging a hole, I'm discussing. My reluctance is not in a hiding of the Truth TM, but the acceptance that the Bible has been interpreted thousands of different ways and formed that many more special sects having different beliefs. We are talking about belief here, when belief alone is few and far. I believe, yet most consider me heretical, some even would consider me going to hell. Christ said if we confess Him to men, then He will confess us to the Father on the day of Judgment.
  14. Challenging one's beliefs is the only sane way to believe. And you are not alone, I have been kicked around for my challenges of the hell doctrine in other forums.
  15. You are still saying that condemned is eternal Hell, and it is not. Even punished should imply punishable in a sense of judgment. So, the question is geared around modern interpretation and common fundamental beliefs, not what it really means. You said the answer in your response. Judgment, condemned go side by side, unless the meaning is altered in which it has been by the people that want to alter it. I even gave you an example with the Jewish lady. If she is punished by not believing in Christ, then where will she go by the Jewish Laws? You did answer, yet the point is that eternal destination was a hot topic in that time, and here comes this Jew speaking about the soul and eternal life. The point is that the Jews lack of faith then is comparable to now to some degree, and they rejected Christ. I understand you don't accept this as a legitimate answer, but, I as well don't accept your answer as legitimate. So, this is a matter of disagreement, not if a viable answer has been given.
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