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Neon Genesis

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Everything posted by Neon Genesis

  1. That's like saying Fox News is a reliable source of information because they sometimes get some facts right every once and awhile and we shouldn't judge Fox News by all the other times they've made stuff up. It should also be pointed out that not all Christians celebrate Christmas. The Church of Christ and I think the Jehovah's Witnesses forbid the celebration of all religious holidays as a sin. I actually own this book and it is completely taken out of context. In other words, whoever took this quote out of context is lying and is trying to make Crossan look like a mythicist. Here is the full quote of what Crossan actually says in The First Christmas So not only did they completely quote Crossan out of context, as Crossan points out, even in the ancient world, the early Christians celebrated Jesus' birth at different times throughout the year.
  2. And as I pointed out earlier in the thread, the other parts of Zeitgeist are a bunch of nutty conspiracy theories about secret one world governments and how 9/11 was a secret inside job.
  3. Would you trust a tobacco company over the anti-smoking crowd just because the anti-smoking crowd has some extremists in their group?
  4. The gospels do state Jesus was framed by his opponents, so of course Jesus didn't deserve to die. That's common knowledge in the Christian world that Jesus didn't do anything to deserve death.
  5. Oh now I understand what's happening. He changed that part of the story in the novel version. I was confused because I hadn't heard of this contradiction before but apparently it's something he made up for his story.
  6. I was recently reading Philip Pullman's new book, The Good Man Jesus And The Scoundrel Christ, and in it he makes a point about a contradiction I hadn't thought of before. In the gospels, Jesus proves to Thomas he was raised from the dead by showing his wounds to him. But if Jesus had his wounds from when he was on the cross, why wasn't the resurrected Jesus' legs still broken? How would he even be able to walk if Jesus retained all his wounds?
  7. In 1 Cor 11:23-24 it says this Paul did in fact write about the physical Jesus 1 Cor 15:12-19 says this
  8. Which Christians believed in a different messiah than Jesus? I know of no such group of Christians. The Gnostics believing Jesus' body was an illusion is not the same thing as claiming they believed in a completely different messiah other than Jesus. Saying "the Gnostics did" doesn't count it. I want a specific Gnostic group and a specific Gnostic gospel which teaches this. I'm not an expert on Gnosticism but I've read some scholarly books on it and I know of no scholar who claims the Gnostics didn't believe in Jesus. Nobody seriously believes Jesus' last name is Christ. The Gnostics didn't disbelieve in the existence of Jesus as you are claiming. They believed Jesus' body was an illusion but that is not the same thing as disbelieving in Jesus' existence. Christians believe God is a spiritual non-physical body, so going by your logic, that means that Christians don't believe in God. What evidence do you have that the Romans invented the belief Jesus was the Messiah? I know of no scholar who has ever claimed this. Virtually all scholars are in universal agreement that the original followers of Jesus were the Jews.
  9. I would be embarrassed to post links to a truther movie like Zeitgeist which claimed there's a secret conspiracy plot to merge the U.S., Canada, and Mexico into a single nation to take over the world. According to Wikipedia, that part of the movie about the North America Union was so embarrassingly phony that updated versions of Zeitgeist have removed it from the movie.
  10. You don't have to play Imagine backwards to find John Lennon's hidden blasphemy.
  11. For another resource from the position that Jesus was a historical person from a secular perspective, I highly recommend listening to episode 63 of the Reasonable Doubts podcast, Zeitgeist Debunked: http://doubtreligion.blogspot.com/2010/03/episode-63-zeitgeist-debunked.html I also recommend the book Jesus Interrupted by Bart D Ehrman for an introduction to secular mainstream biblical scholarship.
  12. Virtually all scholars are also in agreement that the original followers of Jesus were Jews, not Gentiles. The Gnostic Christians didn't believe there was no historical Jesus. The Gnostics believed Jesus' body was a physical illusion but they certainly did believe there was a real being named Jesus. Please cite me any ancient Christian who believed Jesus was not in some way real, whether they believed his body was physical or not.
  13. But Thomas Jefferson also removed all the miracles in the holy books, didn't he?
  14. I wasn't expecting much drama from my sister since she's a liberal Christian and doesn't believe in hell or biblical inerrancy. I was just joking that I should have my own Lifetime movie about coming out of the closet where they always tell the exciting dramatic stories.
  15. I just told my sister that I was gay over Facebook. She already knew I was an atheist and accepted me for who I was and I thought she would probably accept my sexuality too but she didn't know I was gay and I was still scared to tell her, but I finally worked up the courage to tell her. It was actually a very anticlimactic ending. ^^;; She was literally oh whatever. She mentioned one of her favorite radio show hosts, Stephanie Miller, recently came out as a lesbian and all her friends were ok with it. She also warned me to be careful with social networking sites and she promised not to tell anyone about it. I'm glad it turned out well but where's my dramatic ending?
  16. It's not entirely impossible. Santa Claus began as a real historical figure, Saint Nicholas, who later evolved into the mythical jolly fellow who's miracle stories millions of kids around the world believe in and even Saint Nicholas had some wonder stories invented about him which Christians believed in. Given that as far as I'm aware, all of the Jews were expecting the messiah to be a real historical figure, why would the early followers of Jesus purposely invent a purely fictional messiah when no Jews were expecting the messiah to be fictional unless there was a real historical Jesus that lies beneath the myth?
  17. So if we lose a friend who we think wasted their life as a Christian, that gives us permission to stereotype all Christians?
  18. Since there's a major problem in the Christian world with pedophile priests, how would you feel if we assumed that because you're a Christian, you must be a pedophile? If you're not a pedophile, why would you get offended if we assumed all Christians were pedophiles?
  19. The point is that in the story of Jesus having dinner with the sinners, Jesus didn't turn the sinners away or call them anti-Christs or Satanists because of their sins. Instead he had dinner with them which was considered a very intimate and personal moment in Jesus' time. However, Jesus did have a lot to say about judgmental religious people.
  20. And homophobic Christians worry that gays will destroy humanity if we convince everyone to stop making babies.
  21. Have you read Mark chapter two where Jesus has dinner with sinners?
  22. That's not what Jesus said. Mark 9:38-41 Jesus said that those who are not against him are with him. He didn't say that those who are not with him are against him like you're claiming.
  23. Most Christians do celebrate Jesus' birthday on December 25th, but many of them celebrate it as remembering Jesus' birth, not as his actual birth. I know when I was a Christian we believed all religious holidays were a sin but we still celebrated the secular parts of Christmas, but even most of the Christians at my church were not surprised that the Catholics stole Christmas from the pagans. The only people this might be huge news to are super devout Christians who believe every word the Catholic church says but even my Catholic friends are well aware of the pagan origins of Christmas and are not phased by it at all. Even biblical scholars who believe in the historical Jesus are aware that the Israelites originated as a polytheistic pagan group from Canaan. Most scholars are aware there are some pagan influences on Jewish and Christian beliefs but these have no bearings on the existence of the historical Jesus. Justin Martyr also wrote his works decades after the life of Jesus yet that doesn't stop Jesus Myth believers from citing him as proof that the early Christians knew Jesus was a mythical being ripped off of pagan myths and it's all somehow the Catholic church's fault that Christians nowadays believe in a historical Jesus as some sort of grand conspiracy.
  24. If it helps you any, according to all the religious surveys, fundamentalist Christians actually have the highest divorce rates of any religious group and it's all the bible belt states with the highest divorce rates even though fundamentalist Christians claim it's gays who are destroying the sanctity of marriage. Divorce in the Christian world is a lot more common than one may think but holier than thou Christians would never admit it because in many fundamentalist churches that believe divorce is a sin, admitting you have a sin and aren't perfect is an unforgivable sin itself.
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