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Wizened Sage

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Wizened Sage last won the day on December 25 2016

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About Wizened Sage

  • Rank
    Doubter
  • Birthday 02/24/1943

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  • Location
    Maine - USA
  • More About Me
    I am an atheist who was once a believer though never religious or a church-goer.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    no
  1. I used to collect this type of nonsense claims by Christians from various web sites and wrote an article ("Fun With Fundies" for ExChristian.net a few years back. The following were all mentioned in the article. “To say the Bible was written by men and may contain inaccuracies completely contradicts the word of the Bible.” [Talking about an eleven year old girl who was raped and then buried alive] ”god was sacrificing this child as a way to show others the light. much as he did his own child. what a beautiful gift he has given us.” “How can anyone beleive we evolved from monkeys. heres a few questions for people who beleive that If we did evolve from monkeys then how come babies arent born monkeys Even Darwin said his theories were wrong before he died so why do you still believe them Do you really not believe the bible it says we were created in seven days not millions of years? How come we can't speak monkey?” “What does a functioning brain have to do with the Bible?” [offered by LittleLambofJesus] “I honestly don't care about your rights. If it were up to me, all Atheists would be burnt at the stake and or cast into a river with weights tied to their ankles and or placed before the firing squad, etc etc etc” “If u have sex before marriage then in Gods eyes u are married to that person if a man rapes a woman in Gods eyes they are married it sucks for the girl but what can we do lol “ [Gods Soldier seems to think this is a laughing matter] [Replying to 'As for not seeing evolution, it takes several million years... in case you missed that memo...'] ”several million years for a monkey to turn into a man. oh wait thats right. monkeys don't live several million years.“ “I can sum it all up in three words. Evolution is a lie.” [about a girl being born with mental disabilities] ”This girl is like a leper so what she needs to do is try and find god. if she really believes she can be healed from this state, she will be healed from this state. Most afflictions like this are caused by sins committed while still inside the womb. If she can repent for what she does god will embrace her and make her as human as you or me but if she chooses not to she'll always be like this. God tests every one of us.” [by The Saved] “No, everyone is born Christian. Only later in life do people choose to stray from Jesus and worship Satan instead. Atheists have the greatest "cover" of all, they insist they believe in no god yet most polls done and the latest research indicates that they are a different sect of Muslims.” “Gravity: Doesn’t exist. If items of mass had any impact of others, then mountains should have people orbiting them. Or the space shuttle in space should have the astronauts orbiting it. Of course, that's just the tip of the gravity myth. Think about it. Scientists want us to believe that the sun has a gravitation pull strong enough to keep a planet like neptune or pluto in orbit, but then it's not strong enough to keep the moon in orbit? Why is that? What I believe is going on here is this: These objects in space have yet to receive mans touch, and thus have no sin to weigh them down. This isn't the case for earth, where we see the impact of transfered sin to material objects. The more sin, the heavier something is.” “Everyone knows scientists insist on using complex terminology to make it harder for True Christians to refute their claims. Deoxyribonucleic Acid, for example... sounds impressive, right? But have you ever seen what happens if you put something in acid? It dissolves! If we had all this acid in our cells, we’d dissolve. So much for the theory of evolution. Check MATE!” “A missionary I know watched a bullet headed for him do a RIGHT ANGLE before it got to him.” [is there anything this guy won’t believe?] “If the Bible is wrong when it tells us it is infallible, then it contradicts itself. If it contradicts itself, then it is unreliable. If it is unreliable, then our faith is totally shattered and Christianity is a lie. You need to seriously reconsider your logic.” [When asked to prove the existence of a soul, in order to validate his claim that life begins at conception] ”I don't have to "prove" anything. You see, I have this wonderful thing called “faith” and with that I have no need of proof.” [on why God had to have written the Bible] ”But think about it, who is smart enough to write the Holy Bible? The answer, no one. How could people back then have written words with such intellegence? We were not very educated back then, we all know. So tell me, how could people back ages ago could have written the bible?” “God revealed to me two things about the timing of the rapture. God specifically told me 2007 was the year, because I was only going to have from 3 to 3 1/2 years to spread the message after my book was published.” [by Shelby Corbitt – see Amazon for the book "2007." Yes, it was published. One reviewer had this to say, ‘Book turned out to be accurate and helpful! The Rapture came as promised! Thanks Shelby Corbitt!’]
  2. "Our children are young and my heart is broken at the thought of them learning the Christian doctrines of hell, inherent sin, etc. It makes my skin crawl and my heart sick to think of their precious young minds being told these terrible, barbaric ideas as fact. " There you go. I think you have an answer. For the sake of your children you need to tell your husband - and stick to it - that you simply don't believe the Christian story anymore, and you're not going to let anyone indoctrinate them without hearing your side of the story. What kind of parent would you be otherwise? When these absurd Christian claims are raised to your kids, you need to tell them, "Not everyone believes this stuff, and no one in the world can prove any of it is true. No one!" Believe it or not, but you have the advantage when it comes to educating your kids because common sense is on your side. And, given half a chance, if you speak up early and often, the kids will quickly realize this. Throughout my married life my wife was a liberal believer while I was agnostic or atheist. As the kids were growing up, I never claimed to them that I had all the answers, I merely encouraged them to be skeptical of all religious claims, pointing out to them that there are many religions because none of their adherents can actually prove any of their claims. You might have to remind your husband of this, too, once in a while. Faith is merely a word to describe the act of taking someone else's word for things no one can prove. (Incidentally, my children all grew up to be atheists.) Your marriage can survive this, if you stand your ground. Point out to him that you aren't insisting that he believe what you believe, so why should you have to believe what he does? You are an intelligent grownup, not a child. Ask your husband, "If you're a Republican, and I see the world differently, do I have to pretend to be one too? It's the same with religion. I can't make myself believe things that don't make sense to me." In short, you must insist on having a voice in this discussion. In this country we all have rights. Best of luck to you. P.S. You might consider asking him for an evening's discussion so you can explain to him why you don't believe the Christian story anymore. It doesn't need to be an argument, just your explanation. He is still free to believe whatever makes sense to him. Notice I didn't say he can CHOOSE to believe whatever he wants. None of us chooses what to believe, we merely believe what makes sense to us. And this needs to be pointed out to him. If he can't PROVE the Christian story is true, then your grounds for believing what you do are at least as good as his.
  3. "Maybe it's a delusion to think I'm actually being changed by God, but it's how I continue to interpret my experience. " I'd be interested to hear what the evidence is that makes you think a god is involved in this. Given your history in churches and revivals, you are surely aware by now that your feelings do not constitute evidence of anything outside your head. And thanks for posting your very interesting story.
  4. You are absolutely right. Well said. Tolerating mass ignorance cannot be a good thing as it encourages the continued propagation of ignorance. And that . . . is religion in a nutshell.
  5. Margee, If she gives you this bit again: "I can't understand the ways of the lord." You might respond along these lines: The faithful tell us that we can’t know the mind of god, that our puny minds can’t hope to understand him. Yet, this god supposedly wants us to believe in and worship him. So this ultra intelligence can’t make himself understood by us? How could anyone expect to sell me a philosophy if he can’t speak my language and make a sales pitch that I can understand? If there were really a god, shouldn’t it be obvious to all of us, and wouldn’t he be perfectly clear about what is expected of us? Instead, we have a world of hundreds of religions and thousands of sects, and we argue and fight about who’s right. How can it make sense to infer from this that a real god is in charge? You see, they use this non-understandability as an excuse, when it is really a crucial piece of evidence, because they are deathly afraid of doubt.
  6. Hokun, Your story was very well told. You are not merely articulate, you have a genuine gift for communication. I hope you will continue to use that gift to help others escape from superstition. Thanks for posting.
  7. Margee, I just came across your post. While I'm no psychologist, it certainly sounds like you're depressed and a visit to a psychologist certainly couldn't hurt. In the meantime, I responded to a poster awhile back who had many of the same questions/concerns that you expressed, and since I knew someone else would have the same issues sometime, I saved my comment and I have pasted it below. I hope you can find something useful in it. ________________________ John, you have already received some outstanding advice, above, but I can't resist throwing in my two cents too. You ask, what's the point of living without a god? Where is the meaning in life then? When one has these feelings I think one can only shrug his shoulders and get on with life. Would simply living out some god's plan for you really give life meaning? Wouldn't that be a lot like the Energizer Bunny's "life," endlessly shuffling about beating its little drum to no real purpose, an automaton? If you think about it, everything about life can be devolved to the absurd. Many love golf, but what is golf? You hit a ball, chase it, then hit it again.?! Basketball (my personal favorite); you try to put a ball through a hoop while trying to prevent your opponent from doing same. Yet one who actually plays these games quickly gets lost in the nuances of the game and time passes in sheer joy. Some say life sucks then you die. That way lies trouble. Forget the overview and just lose yourself in the details. Why bother to live if we are just gonna die in the end anyway...that's the great nihilistic question. The answer is in the nuances. We don't live our lives moment to moment thinking in this nihilistic way. If we did, suicide might begin to look sensible. The meaning in life is in the details. Your pet dog has never once troubled himself about the meaning of life, but when he sees you come in the front door, he runs to you jumping up and down and barking, his tail going a hundred miles an hour, just enveloped in sheer joy. That is how life should be lived. Forget the nihilistic overview and lose yourself in the nuances and life can be beautiful. What does it matter if it "means" anything or not in the end? Meaning is totally subjective, anyway. Something can mean one thing to you and yet mean something very different to me. If you are living life to the hilt, the question of meaning will seldom occur to you, and life will be enjoyed. You asked, what should you do with your life and how do you avoid wasting it? The key, I believe, is in finding what you enjoy doing and then doing it (without hurting anyone else, of course). Imagine you're doing something fun, like spending an afternoon playing volleyball with your friends on the beach and drinking a few beers. Let's say your team gets trounced game after game. Don't you think you'd be laughing through it all? Is there any chance you would consider that afternoon wasted just because your team lost? Again, find something you enjoy doing and do it, even if you don't do it very well. That's one old man's opinion, anyway. As for myself, I spent a career working as an economist for a state government. I certainly didn't change the world, but I had some good ideas that worked and generally enjoyed the challenges and small successes I had. Now I'm retired, and not wealthy by any means, but, with modest wants, I don't have to worry about money. Also, I was married and raised three sons with whom I am still very close (and my ex-wife is still my best friend!). It's been a great life and I'm still enjoying it immensely. And all this without believing in a god for at least the past 50 years. Who woulda thunk it? Thanks for writing John. I hope you can come to see that a life without the constraints, guilt and fear of religion is the life MOST worth living. Thanks for writing, and good luck to you.
  8. Bagbear, Your friends said, "you had really convinced me that Jesus' instructions are good enough, now if you could prove his existence I would join you" Now that's the key, isn't it? But no matter how hard we look, there is no sign of this Jesus or god. The bible, and all the believers, tell us to take their word for it, to just believe them, and to "feel it in our heart." If there were a real god who interacts with this world, and wants so badly for us to believe in him, then it should be obvious. We shouldn't have to take anyone's word for it. It's a shame that so many are trapped in a make-believe world. For thousands of years, millions of people have believed in thousands of make-believe gods because someone told them to, "Just believe." Thanks for posting your story. I hope you will continue to insist on good hard evidence before you believe in any gods.
  9. Atheist Minister, As you may be aware, Daniel Dennett and a colleague are currently doing a study on preachers who are not believers. Apparently there are many of them. Here is a link to a paper about the study that you might find interesting: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/Non-Believing-Clergy.pdf He recounts that there are two jokes they have heard over and over from the preachers, which I paraphrase: (1) If you complete seminary and still believe in god, then you weren't paying attention, and (2) Seminary is where god goes to die. Welcome to freethought, and thanks for posting.
  10. "And what the story I posted about "god" revealing the Muslim man's personal facts to him through the missionary? Do I just dismiss that, and any other story like that? " That is an extraordinary claim, thus it requires extraordinary evidence. Did the speaker provide any? I'm sure he didn't. The speaker may believe it, as he may have trusted the source, but it is virtually certain that someone, somewhere along the line made it up or, at the least, took a grain of truth (the missionary made one wild but accurate guess) and exaggerated it. It's been said before, that if a claim sounds too good to be true, it almost certainly is.
  11. This was intended as a reply to DayLight, but I apparently pushed the wrong buttons. "I think it's a nice idea to believe that we used to be somewhere else before we came here, and that we will return there, and that we will be happy." Because you think something is "a nice idea to believe" doesn't make it true. That's just an admission of wishful thinking. Without evidence, you might as well believe we are stuck in some kid's computer simulation of the universe. "But how can any person know anything unless they talk to Him themselves and find out? So maybe the focus should be to try to find a way to communicate. " But how are you ever going to know for sure that you aren't just talking to yourself? There are millions of people who sincerely believe that they are communicating with Allah, do you think they are right? You are doing the same thing they are and end up believing it's your particular god you are communing with. So who is right? If you say it's you, then how can you prove this with external evidence (evidence outside your own head). If you say it's something you feel, then you're just saying the same thing the Moslems say. I would argue that all gods are merely products of the imagination. Everything you have "learned" about your god, you learned from other humans, not from the physical world. This is why there have been thousands of gods and tens of thousands of sects - because no one has any proof beyond someone else's words of what they wish was true. If you think you are communing with a real god, I think you are deluding yourself, so as not to let go of your wishful thinking.
  12. nekomajin, Maybe you're trying too hard. Try just asking yourself if it truly makes sense to worship a god who drowns children (remember that big flood?). If you know of some reasonable justification for that act, I would truly love to hear it.
  13. "I'm okay with losing all consciousness forever. I will hate losing contact with certain pppl after their death, but nothing will bother me when I'm dead." Very well put. We may feel uneasy about the finality of death while we are alive, but it won't be a problem after we're dead.
  14. Welcome, pattylt. I, too, was never really a Xtian. My family was simply not religious and we never went to church. I became a God believer as a kid, I guess thru osmosis from my culture. I was not even aware that acceptance of the divinity of Jesus was necessary to be a Xtian. But, by my late teens I was agnostic as it began to occur to me that this God stuff was nonsense. For the next several decades I seldom thought much about it. Religion was basically irrelevant to my life. It has only been over the past several years, thanks in large measure to Geo. Bush, that I have come to see how much damage religion does. I have since thought and read deeply on the issue of religion and become an atheist. I post here fairly frequently and have submitted letters on religon to the editor of my local weekly. I have become something of an activist and enjoy it tremendously. It feels good to be doing something useful for society. And by joining us, and chiming in with your thoughts, you too are doing something useful for society. Welcome! - WizenedSage
  15. Thanks for a great story! I think the absolute best way to see the folly of Christianity is to read the Bible. You are definitely on the right course. The Bible was made up by primitive desert tribesmen who had little knowledge of how the world really works. Consider some of the creatures which are mentioned in the bible; witches, wizards, sorcerers, spirits, ghosts, giants, dragons, sea monsters, satyrs, and unicorns. Do these things sound real to you? Other mythical oddities of the Bible include a talking snake, a talking jackass, a talking bush, 900 year-old men, a man whose super-human strength resided in his hair, 3 men who walked unharmed through fire, a man who lived 3 days in the belly of a fish, a wandering star which somehow led to a particular building, and a corpse which stood up and walked away after 3 days in a tomb. It’s irrational to believe in such things without a ton of hard evidence – yet there is none. It’s just hearsay – “well, so-and-so says” – but no one even knows who the so-and-so’s were! Clearly, all this stuff was just made up. No half-educated adult living today, who was not indoctrinated in this stuff since childhood, could take it seriously or would consider even for a moment that this stuff is really history. Yes, the Bible instructs us to just believe without questioning, but how can this be sensible advice if the Muslims and Hindus say exactly the same thing about their ‘Holy’ books? If someone we don’t know says, “Just trust me,” shouldn’t we be suspicious?
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