Jump to content


♦ Diamond Patron ♦
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Fuego

  1. Really ancient civilizations are so intriguing. The Minoans are fascinating, but we have no Rosetta Stone documents to decipher their writings. I wonder how many existed that we haven't found yet. I saw another talk on the vast civilizations that were visited by Europeans, and weren't there the next time visitors arrived due to the sicknesses the first ones brought. Some of those are being uncovered by satellite imagery.
  2. Other corollary stories that are based on the primitive cosmology are the Tower of Babel ("bab" is gate, "el" is god) which spooked god into scrambling their languages (babble), and when Jesus floated "up" to heaven above the clouds, the same place we fly airplanes and spacecraft. This is echoed in other primitive faiths like Islam where Mohammed flew to heaven on a flying horse.
  3. I think that description applied to some of the ancients as well. Their gods were essentially like humans with all of our character flaws, but they had power over our lives. They had to be appeased with offerings, but would still do shitty things. Medusa was a beautiful virgin in the temple of Athena, but Poseidon raped her and so Athena kicked her out of the temple and turned her into a monster. Totally shitty. Homer wrote the Iliad/Odyssey as a sort of Book of Job about rejecting the gods because people were irritated at the immature gods.
  4. A few things I've experienced: After my deconversion, I went with my wife to a New Age crystal/book store. In one section, it felt like I was being hugged by my mom (passed away long ago). Such a feeling of peace and acceptance. Every time I would walk to that spot, I'd feel this. They called it a vortex to the other side. I have no idea, but it was repeatable. The section was witchcraft, and though I gravitate towards nature and the cycles of nature, spells don't really have any appeal to me. Actions and attitudes are more important to spirituality. I try not to get caught up in invisible worlds that I can't verify, or religious judgments like karma and such. I'm here, and while I'm here, what do I want to embody? In processing my old faith, I started writing and really going over the details of what I had believed and if any of it was still valuable. I had a dream where I was chatting with a woman who asked me, "Is there anything worthwhile in it?" I replied "Yes. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, if you have two coats share with him who has none." Kindness, compassion, empathy, actually helping others. None of the religion has any value, but when we make kindness our way in life by default, all of humanity gets better little by little. Even Jesus made that the deciding factor at his sheep and goats story. I've had mushrooms a few times and a newer substance that help give me a new perspective on me, how I interact with others, my own motivations, my attitudes, and how I view "reality". That affects how I place value on stuff and people, and helps me see more clearly what I really value and what I would like to become. It's like years of psychotherapy in a few hours. Others say that they can also be difficult if one doesn't wish to see inside one's motivations and behaviors. The most important thing is to allow them to show you what they want to tell you (what you on a deep level want to tell you, all life is connected really). Fighting and trying to stay in control it makes it more difficult and unpleasant. Relaxing and an attitude of openness to learning and experiencing is key. Float on the current they provide and then process later what you experienced. The mindset you have, and the setting of the place where you do this is hugely important in how the experience will be. So what you are feeling is good. Our feelings and senses are how we view reality and participate in it. The flip side of depression can rob people of any joy and hope for change. You have something that is giving you feelings of acceptance and love, and that is largely what I get when I "journey" with mushrooms in addition to having a more basic perspective on life and relationships. It isn't pursuing more stuff, prestige, fame, position, but recognizing how life is connected, how important it is to care for the planet and for others. That way I can live simply and find joy. Or I can be at work doing technical things that others don't understand, but it is about helping not arrogance.
  5. I haven't watched it yet, just the hour long droning interview. The Jews were in shock and upheaval after the destruction of the temple, and looking for some answers since YHWH was supposed to actually live in the middle and hadn't done anything to stop the pagan Romans. There were already factions opposing the Romans, and differing sects of Judaism, with probably even more small cults. The story of Jesus Barabbas (son of the father) and Jesus Christ echoed strongly the Yom Kippur tradition of sacrificing one goat to God to atone for the sins of the priests, and releasing the other into the wilderness to take away the sins of the people. The Jews would have recognized that. Gentiles would not. So this points to the strong Judaic ties that the original cult had. None of Christianity was written down until Paul (who had never met Jesus) started writing his version of the faith. The apostles (who had met Jesus) got into a tiff with Paul over Gentiles in the church, and how they weren't being good Jews. Paul negotiated with them so that the Gentiles wouldn't have to be burdened with laws. Paul is who made the story accessible to the average Joe, particularly in other countries. Prior to his writings, religions didn't really talk about the afterlife being accessible for most people, only heroes in war or great kings. Most just went to the underworld with the rest of the dead. But here comes a religion saying, yes your life sucks being a peasant, but in the afterlife you will be in paradise with a god that loves you. Huge selling point for faith in that god. The gospels and epistles from various writers seem to be dismissive of other accounts of Jesus, and the tiff between the apostles and Paul, and even other variants of the cult are fairly clear. This is something even the Christian historians realize, though most believers just try to harmonize it all as one story. The documentary points out things like how in Mark, Jesus tells his disciples that he talks to the crowd in parables but to his inner circle he gives them the deep secrets. The "eat my flesh and drink my blood" line is part of that. This guy says that relates to agriculture and winemaking, part of Dionysus worship. The other documentary I watched linked this to the magic mushroom that has a red juice. Hidden truths revealed to the true believers is the basis of every mystery religion ever. "We've got the secrets to the spiritual reality behind this one, and by going through our lessons and paying us, we reveal the truth to you." Scientology is big on this, as is Mormonism. But if Jesus were ever real, then the faith was likely just a very small cult. Paul (if he was even real) made it accessible for the rest of the world, and started a relatively new thing of the average person getting into bliss after a life of hardship which made the religion explode throughout the Roman and Greek worlds.
  6. The mystery religion connection is still fascinating to me. Parables being used to hide the truth was huge in those religions. "An ear of corn reaped in silence" was one mystery parable that was supposed to be the culmination of many teachings, but we are left going "Hmm. Ok."' It seems like they are taking a different mystery angle, with agriculture instead of the amanita mushroom angle.
  7. This is a 12-minute history video that talks about how Greeks and Jews talked about these creatures, and how Judaism/Christianity made them all evil. Judaism wanted to create a stark monotheism out of a long history of polytheism and animism, so anything that was godlike became "daimon", like the gods of the non-Jews. Angels in Judaism were considered different, not really acting on their own. But the Greeks held that any creature between the gods and Earth were "daimon", and that we even have at least one inside each of us, a muse of sorts. All the other cultures whose writings we can read also had similar views. We are still unable to decode the unique Minoan writing, an apparent combination of pictographs and letters like hieroglyphs. It seems that pre-science humans developed the abstract thought that anything that was mysterious has a personality associated with it (disease, celestial objects, terrestrial objects and life, lightning, wind, "fortune"). I remember talking with an African teenager who said that his village worshiped the spirit of the river. All of these are insights into how humans regarded themselves and the environment. Romans had being for everything, like Janus who faces two directions at once, who was associated with doorways, new years, and decision making. Amulets and spells for invoking or placating daimons were common. And of course religious leaders always found a way to make a profit off of such beliefs, and insisted that atheists were dangerous to society. I do wish we had more actual information regarding pre-historic humans and how they interpreted themselves and the world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee3HQ_luNqE
  8. Welcome! Christianity tries to give a simple black and white, one size fits all, any who reject are damned message. For a very long time, that fear contrasted with alleged love of god was enough to convert hundreds of millions of people. That and forced conversions by governments egged on by the church. The fear it can create is a very deeply felt thing by many, as is the guilt it creates for simple things like sexual desire, which is entirely normal and should not have any shame associated with it. Christianity portrays the world as created by their god, and that there is an enemy (the devil), and that people need to be saved or they will be damned. It is a simplistic, cruel, and wrong approach to life. Just a cursory reading of most of the Bible shows that this "god" is evil, has a strong thirst for blood, generally kills anyone who disobeys, and requires very odd things from followers like mutilating their genitals. In short, it is an old obscure tribal cult that happened to become very popular. None of it is real. The cosmology of the bible is absurd. Examples are god getting scared of people building a tall tower (Bab-El, gate to god), as though heaven was just above the clouds; Jesus ascending "up" into heaven, just above the clouds (there is no up in space, it goes forever in all directions). We fly planes above the clouds all the time, and even have spacecraft that have flown outside the solar system. Other religions like Islam have this same primitive view of cosmology, with Mohammed ascending to heaven on a flying horse. Like many cults, it wants to control the members and keep them obedient and scared (though many would deny this, I've been to far too many meetings where people are weeping over how very human they are, since they keep expecting to become like a magic obedient Jesus). They want to eliminate other religions, because they consider all of them to be from the devil. Sex and lust are called sinful because it is a basic drive common to nearly all life, and thus makes an easy "problem" that people can never cure, and have to keep coming back to the church to confess sin. But again, it is absolutely normal to have sexual drives, and there is a spectrum of variety in those drives. You've also encountered how very human the leaders are, preferring their own leisure time to helping someone with real questions. Leaders here, at least in big churches, are often rich. A local "pastor of pastors" has several gold and diamond rings on his fingers, and loads of businessmen surrounding him to protect him from questions. Questions are met with "We think you'd be happier somewhere else." They want sheep that they can control easily. Many believers are uncomfortable with questions. Questions are the opposite of blind faith, and that is the one thing that they crave. Serious believers weep, desperately wanting to "die to self" and be crucified so that they don't question or even desire anything contrary to whatever god wants. It's a strange cult that way, and the ideal is always out of reach. Is there a god? I'd say nothing like the human-figure kind that sit on thrones and judge people. Not all of us here are atheist entirely. I am atheist in the sense that most of the gods of religions are not real beings, but more like facets of being, and that we are all together (that is all living things) part of "god" or the spark of life. Again, welcome! I hope that you can find your way away from the cult of Christianity and into a path that is wholesome and helps you in life.
  9. Interesting talk on the timeline, possible origin, and possible impending changes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idfv7Lw4Y_s
  10. I just made a batch the other day, though I haven't grown my own (no room for a garden now). I also make ginger tea by simmering the sliced-up roots in water for about 40 min. Made a few gallons last weekend that I keep in the fridge.
  11. When believers are trying to convert someone, belief is the easiest most simple thing ever. Once you are in, and get experience with different flavors of the faith in different congregations and denominations, you find quite a lot of variation on both how and what to believe. When you talk about deconverting, they claim that you didn't believe just the right way. It is a constant shell-game of "THIS is real Christianity, not THAT". DestinyTurtle said it very well "Don't get caught up in the constant goal-post shifting and weaponized delegitimization of people's experiences." Look at the emotional reactions people had in scriptures, like Zacchaeus who was thrilled that Jesus noticed him, and who announced that he was giving half his wealth to the poor, was going to give back money he had taken (he was a tax gatherer for the Romans and would take extra for himself) and was going to make any wrongs he'd done right. Jesus announced to the crowd that salvation had come to this house, and that this was a true son of Abraham. No fancy words, no mental exercises, no creeds or speaking in tongues, nothing but becoming kind and generous based on listening to what Jesus was saying. So yes, you were a believer, and then saw through the religion. Personally, I sifted out everything except the kindness and generosity parts. Those make humanity better when we each practice them. Even Jesus made them the only criteria he uses at the throne when he separates the sheep from the goats. Not that I think or believe in any kind of judgment coming or even a judge of my life other than myself, just seeing the goodness that we can embody vs not.
  12. At the time I did this, I only had room for some clay pots instead of a full-fledged garden. I usually do rosemary, thyme, sage, and basil. Basil gets eaten by bugs the most, the others are hardy. They are great for cooking. Little snips go into a stew or salad.
  13. I thought the article did a good overview of what it means. Not much to add, except that it come from who you are to the one you worship. When I visited a shaman in the area of Sedona, she said to bring some items from home: water, ground, plants. Not a lot, just something. So I brought something from the nature around my home, and from my garden since I put myself into growing the plants. It was an offering to the local area, my nature touching the nature there. Simple, but meaningful.
  14. Welcome! Glad you feel comfortable being visible here.
  15. It happened when I deconverted, realizing my beliefs were the result of believing in the marketing of the religion instead of in reality. Marketing is why so many get-rich scams work, because people have a strong motivation to get the prize, and at the same time are unwilling to think of themselves as rubes, and then keep trying to make it work because they are unwilling to admit that they were tricked. The deconversion was jump-started by utter shock that the guy I thought was really experiencing the presence of god and delivering on it, was in fact lying based on his ultra-Pentecostal view that speaking and acting as though it is true makes it come into physical reality, and anything else is giving in to the devil. So all the claims of healings and raising people from the dead were lies based on religion when the rest of us thought he (and his cult followers) were speaking about physical reality. That was the smack that started me asking why he had to lie in the first place when what he preached was biblical. That crack grew and grew, and this site sealed the deal for me when I read so many others who had come out of the faith. I wanted truth more than just shifting my beliefs again.
  16. Another angle on this is the question I once heard was "Then why doesn't life keep on springing up on Earth?" It may actually happen rather often, but since other microbial life is already teeming, anything new is likely eaten very quickly. Then there are the tholins, which are plentiful on other celestial bodies, and may provide the starting point for life. They could also provide initial food. Once life exists that produces oxygen in great quantities, the tholins will break down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tholin And remember when debating believers, they tend to defend any scrap of information that seems to confirm their beliefs (though their beliefs didn't spring from this information). When I was a believer, I remember consuming all the Institute for Creation Science publications I could find, and assumed it was true. I didn't read anything about evolution from evolutionary scientists.
  17. It started (they say) with Abraham believing what god told him directly. That seems a bit different than reading a book about a god talking to someone and believing it, but that is the twisty path that it has become, since they teach that the Bible is a direct hand-off of info from this god. Still quite a stretch from "Hi I'm THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE. Kill your son for me. Ha! Just kidding. Instead cut off part of his penis, or I'll kill you." Believing god was his stamp of being declared right with god (righteousness). Oddly, not many stories of him being a good neighbor and caring for the poor, etc. Then we are given the many stories about Jesus written to convert people "These things were written so that you might believe..." Except that history has a complete vacuum of anyone else reporting his existence, much less the many outstanding miracles that his cult reports. And instead of doing all the good deeds that were pushed by John the Baptist and Jesus also, belief became the crux of salvation. So much so that now the good deeds ignored in favor of patriotism and money, but they still "believe".
  18. Not familiar with his music, but glad that he's using his mind and isn't willing to accept misdirection as an answer.
  19. "pseudo-history of Israel" Bingo. My current understanding from gleaning what others have posted is that much of the old testament was written during the Babylonian captivity in order to give the Jews some sense of being a distinct people, and having been chosen by that specific god. Odd things like the "star of David" had nothing to do with David, it is one of the many occult symbols that were used in Babylon and was taken as a sign of protection by the priests or those being educated in that land. Occultic things are big in Jewish history. The Golom was a demon creature that the rabbi could summon for protection or as a warrior against the foes. The myth of Daniel was also spun during that time and incorporated the local authorities, though as far as I have ever heard, there is no mention of him by his Hebrew or Babylonian name. The Exodus from Egypt appears to be entirely fictitious, given that no other account exists of multiple plagues and a supernatural fight happening, much less all of the people and animals that trekked across the desert. The feeding and watering of the animals and people are a huge problem for literalists, because they supposedly just had a rock that spouted water. It would have had to provide a LOT of water to satisfy that many people and animals daily. There is no record of the Jews slaughtering all the people groups they encountered, and would amount to multiple genocides if it were true. There was a David and a Solomon, but how much of their stories are true is a guess. Much the same is true of the gospels, clearly not eyewitness testimonies due to the non-factual reporting and the inclusion of conversations between Jewish rulers and Roman authorities to which they were not privy. No accounts exist of Jesus outside of the cult writings. Even Paul says he never met him except in spirit, and he lived in Jerusalem (if indeed he is real).
  20. Even the "apostle of love" summarized how to love this god "This is love for god, that we obey his commands". He is a petulant narcissist with a lust for blood. He blesses mass rape and orders genocide, often in the same command. Happily, looking around at reality such as photos of earth floating in space, we can better understand that none of the Bible stories can be real. When we look at history, and the complete dearth of any evidence supporting the Exodus or the gospels, we see that it was always just cult writings (like the book of mormon, the moonies, the manson family, etc) intended to convert through a combination of dangling a carrot of promises of paradise and threats of eternal torture.
  21. And the "devil" is almost the reverse of how he's portrayed. Bringing light to the slaves makes bible god vewy vewy angwy indeed.
  22. Most believers convince themselves at first that God is responding. When disappointment is expressed, other believers teach you to make excuses to fill in the blank of silence. I'm sure you've heard them: "Oh, he answered, but it looks different than what you expect. He's always faithful, all the time!" "He can say no. You don't give your kid everything she asks for." "He's not a cosmic vending machine, ya know!" "Who are you to question God?!" But it's only ever them doing the speaking. Some churches have turned the silence into doctrine. The Baptist church I attended for a while insists that God must be silent and not answer prayers for healing or the Bible wouldn't be finished, and that would be a catastrophe for some reason. I always thought that essentially made god dead, so I left (as did a lot of others, but a lot of others stayed). When I finally got a shock discovering a trusted pastor lying and making up long detailed stories about miracles (which brought in a lot of money and followers) I had to start asking hard questions that needed actual answers. That was when the silence became very apparent. Silence brought a lot more questions I had shelved over the years about why is god such a colossal jerk in the Bible? Why does he want blood? Earth is a planet floating in a vast cosmos in all directions, yet Jesus ascended "up" into the clouds. There is no "up", heaven isn't just above the clouds, we fly planes there all the time. We have spacecraft that go outside the solar system. Same with the tower of Babel, god was threatened by a building project? Then there are the talking snake ("more clever than the other wild animals", not Satan), the talking donkey, the odd witchcraft stories about mating sheep in front of striped branches, floating axe heads, rubbing mud in a blind man's eyes to make him see, and an Old Testament filled with god blessing mass rape and genocide. It is a primitive cult, nothing more. We were tricked, we believed, then we saw through. Sadly, millions are still in the cult and many of them are in political positions and military.
  23. Fuego


    For me the fear of devils vanished when I saw that I had been fed lies by well-meaning people, and that collectively we kept "reasoning" our way around the lies and inconsistencies. For a more palpable fear, bordering on PTSD, I had to use microdosing of mushrooms (plus one full-on trip). They are a natural way to reset things at a very deep level. Sadly, the gov't still regards them equal to heroin or meth, which is purely political since there is no danger or addiction involved (and no rich pharmaceutical companies becoming more rich when you eat mushrooms). Once the fear was gone, it was gone. I still get no-particular-reason anxiety now and then, but the previous triggers are disarmed.
  24. Welcome! You are discovering that sometimes family ties are toxic and will continue to poison you and others you love, all justified by religion (and narcissism even in non-religious families). Some families are great, some of sort of meh, others are best cut off like cancer. It sounds like you have sorted out your own concepts and seen through the programming. Now instead of subjecting yourself to unbending, unreasoning religious fanatics, find joy and peace without them. Some of my own family are about as religious as I once was, and right about the time I rejected the beliefs they became distant. That worked out fine for me. We also had several families of immigrants to whom we had grown close, but our only real tie outside of that closeness we formed was the faith. When we rejected that, our common bond was broken and we rarely see them now. That hurt, but there are a few toxic ones in their family group that make it icky, and since their whole world is utterly steeped in non-stop Jesus, we didn't want to make things awkward for them or for us and split. We saw them recently at a funeral, and 95% of them were wonderful and we expressed love to each other, but the toxic few were there with no smiles, no greetings, and were clearly being the "holy warriors" they imagine themselves to be. Meh. Find new friends and circles, though that is difficult during this quarantine time. For me, nature provides a steady diet of quiet beauty and a feeling of connection to life in general, apart from the odd abstractions of "meaning" humans keep trying to stick on things. Music is another kind of beauty I enjoy. and most of my circle of friends post-church are musicians. Most of them are not religious, or are social believers. When you stop allowing your relationships to be poisoned, you get to explore just being you and being together. And it takes time to decompress from the toxic relationships. When we are around it long enough, we expect to be beaten emotionally. But that is horrible. So I suggest distance and a new way of being, day in and day out. Choose to find the beauty in life.
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.