Jump to content


Regular Member
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

0 Neutral

About Ameen

  • Rank
    Born Again Gay Atheist
  • Birthday 01/01/2008

Contact Methods

  • Website URL
  • ICQ

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Not Telling
  • Location
  • Interests
  • More About Me

Previous Fields

  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
  1. Yeah, why not say hello?! ;o)

  2. I guess I'm just a lot more crass than the rest of you. I cursed out God in the foulest terms I could think of and felt really, really good. Shortly after that, I realized I had been an atheist since about age twelve, but fear, manipulation, guilt, threats of hellfire and OCD had kept me in the dysfunctional fold.
  3. Jensen Ackles is always on my mind.

  4. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK! Yes. My bad. I've just changed April 2nd to May 2nd in the post I wrote a few minutes ago. Here it is:
  5. I wrote my last message in this thread on April 19th. I am writing this new one on May 2nd. Justin and I have been exchanging long, informative e-mails. We do not agree on a number of things, and our recollections of the way things went down on GCN differ. I am sorry that you have only gotten my version, the one in which I discussed his bichiness. In reading his take on events, I can see my own bichiness as well, and that is not clearly represented in my initial message. When I joined GCN, I was led (by heterosexuals) to believe that all gay Christians were uber-liberal like me. That was what I wanted, and the Fundamentalism on GCN despite the existence of some uber-liberal Christians there made me sick. A lot of people on GCN are recovering from Fundamentalism and still react in a Fundamentalist way to key issues since that is all they have ever known. I don't believe everything I said and did was wrong since I believe in confronting hate and educating people, but I can see how I could have handled some issues more diplomatically since some people there were not ready to hear some of what I said just as I was not ready to hear their Fundamentalism. Justin has suggested that we talk about my ideas for making GCN a better place, and I am going to compose a long e-mail about that. In the end, I got what I wanted. If a couple of people who have backgrounds like mine join and are treated better there, all this rehashing of old pain is worth it. If I were a drinking man, I'd order a stiff one before writing my next e-mail. I guess I'll have to have a stiff ice tea.
  6. @ Everyone: I wrote a third message to Justin--obsessive, I am!--and he sent back a long letter in which he apologized for not responding sooner and not telling me there would be a delay in his response. I had told him that I posted my piece about GCN here, and he asked me not to post his letters to me here. As a positive gesture, I will not post his letters or discuss their content. After all, I would not want my letters mocked on his board without my having an opportunity to respond. I will say, though, that I accept his excuse for the delay and his call for discussion between us. In no way am I going to return to my former belief system or embrace the people on that board. I am an atheist now, whereas I was agnostic in 2003/2004 and a little more open to the possibility of god. However, I do see this as an opportunity to show why it is so important to be open even to non-believers and very, very liberal Christians on a board like that, and I think there is the possibility that some good can come from it if someone is treated better because people learned from the way I was mistreated. I also see it as an opportunity to get rid of some of my anger. It isn't clear yet if we are going to talk in private (which he prefers) or in public (which I prefer). We'll see. I am open to further gestures on my part if he shows some. Of course, I won't keep my hopes up, and I enter this with the understanding that it may all be for nothing. But if there is even a chance that someone somewhere will be treated better, then I do it with eyes wide open. I'll keep you posted. @ R. S. Martin: I'll be sending you a long private message soon. Also, I am not in the mental health field. I do volunteer work with fellow OCD sufferers and am quite good at it, but I am still a layman. My field is ESL (English as a Second Language), and I have been teaching it since 1994. @ LtJayson: I am so glad I was able to help! One day I will have to post the amusing story of my job interview with a Fundie university that needed an ESL professor. The woman who interviewed me was, I think, Nazarene. (Memory says that she said "Nazarite," but I could be wrong. It was a long time ago, and I did not write it down.) @ ephymeris: I agree about the Christian sadists on Christian boards, although to be fair I have also encountered atheist sadists and even one Jewish sadist on non-religious boards. Still, Christians who claim moral superiority should know better. The person who owns and operates my OCD board/whom I assist, herself a conservative Christian but not a sadist, would call all of them, the Christians included, "sad, very insecure people."
  7. @ Shackled No More: I wish I had known that this site sold the book. Oh well too late--but no harm done. I ordered it used but in excellent shape for $8.00 plus $3.99 shipping before I saw your post. I think I am in store for a great read! @ Brought None: Glad to hear it! I sincerely wish you the best, and I am here if you need an ear.
  8. Now how did I post the same thing twice? I'll erase the message here and leave it in the next post.
  9. Please, please don't apologize for pouring, Brought None. I've found that saying it here really helps me, and I am grateful for a place to talk about such issues. I find your post very moving, bro. I am so sorry that you had to go through all that mental nonsense about waiting to die and then going to hell. Goddess, that sounds so familiar. Every time I hear about another one of us who survived homophobia, rejection, fear, and extremist religion, I want to applaud and jump for joy. And wonder how we do it. And cry for all the pain involved. I am also so sorry that you don't have gay friends to talk to face to face. Even in the south, there are places where gays can socialize. I understand that you probably don't want to go to a church group, but you may want to check with the national or a local gay hotline to see what is available in your area. The closest large city might have a gay community center that can advise you. (If you are anywhere near Atlanta, know that it is a huge gay Mecca. Ironically enough, so is Salt Lake City, the center of the Mormon world.) If you are not out to your folks or community, you can, of course, socialize in a different community or area. Treat yourself to weekends away, too. Your university may have an alumni group, and, if you went to a university far away, a closer one may have LGBT activities open even to people not currently attending. If you feel terribly isolated, feel free to drop me a private message. Maybe we can brainstorm ways for you to meet other LGBT people. I warn you that I am not the best person to give such advice, as I spend much of my time teaching or helping students and OCD folks, after which I prefer to retreat to the privacy of my apartment--away from the mad crowds. I fear I am becoming more and more anti-social as I age. Besides, most of my friends are straight despite my living in New York and teaching in a university in Greenwich Village, the gay center of the world... Also, gay New Yorkers are notoriously more snobbish than gays in other American cities; gays I know in other states have all told me that. But my best friend is gay, and we met at a LGBT event in his university in 1992 despite the nastiness of the beautiful Chelsea boys and the intimidation I felt here in New York. I was merely attending their events since the university was close to me. He made a big difference in my life--and still does--and I know that friends like that will also make your life sparkle. Just so you know, I started a glad to be LGBT thread almost two months ago: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...c=29163&hl= Glad that you're on the board!
  10. P.S. @ R. S. Martin: Just heard from the Ph.D. in psychology who owns and operates my OCD board. She doesn't know the book in question, but New Harbinger Publications is legitimate, she says. I will definitely order a used copy of Winnell's book on Amazon. @ Vomit Comet: You must have posted while I was writing my last message, as I have only just seen your post. You got her number? Not unless you've got Jensen Ackles'... :wicked:
  11. @ R. S. Martin: Thank you--and yes I find your post supportive. I in turn accept you exactly as you are. I was on the Aven Asexuality board for a few weeks, and I found that most people there were very accepting of gay people because they knew what it was to have a sexual orientation that the mainstream did not understand. The few (very few!) who were homophobic were challenged by others on the board who could see no reason to condemn gay people. I am glad that I was able to educate people on my OCD board about asexuality and people on Aven about OCD. However you identify, whatever body you are in, and whoever you are or are not attracted to is absolutely fine. Many traditional Southwestern Native American groups held that the sex you were physically did not have to line up with the sex you identified with or the role you played in bed. In modern terms, it would be like a slot machine. You can get three cherries. You can get two cherries and an orange. You can get a cherry, an orange, and a plum. This is not to say that all traditional Native American in the Southwest or anywhere else thought this way, as there were certainly ones that defined what a person must be. Rather, I say it to give you another way to consider yourself. As for me: My body is male and my sexual role is 'male'. Although I am straight acting/looking and many people are surprised to learn that I am gay, I consider my true sex female. I don't have any desire to cross dress (although there is absolutely nothing wrong with it) or have surgery (again, nothing wrong with it). My body is male and I simply want it to stay that way since it turns me on to have a male body in male clothes for the same reason, I suppose, that I am turned on by male bodies in or out of male clothes; however, I am certain that my spirit is female. I have never felt male. Since you have an intellectual bent and these ideas are important to you, may I recommend a 1991 book I read more than ten years ago and loved? It's The Zuni Man-Woman by Will Roscoe (who is an openly gay Native American and scholar). It tells the story of We'Wha, a nineteenth-century Zuni who was the toast of President Grover Cleveland's Washington, D.C. What many whites did not know at the time was that this cultural ambassador and icon was actually a berdache, a man who wore women's clothes and assigned himself a woman's lifestyle. Everyone in D.C. assumed We'Wha was indeed a woman. White society was not ready for such a revelation, but in Zuni society no one would have batted an eyelash. This book won the Margaret Mead Award of the American Anthropological Association and the Society for Applied Anthropology. I'm intrigued by Marlene Winell's Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving Their Religion, which you mentioned in another thread. I'm not too familiar with the publisher, New Harbinger Publications, and I intend to look into it. If I like what I see, I will definitely order this book (only used copies are available, I realize) and devour it. @ Neon Genesis: Consider yourself cyber-hugged. I love what you wrote, and now you clearly underestand my frustration with GCN. I will say that not everyone on that site is so awful, and I feel bad for the good people there who are bombarded with so many bad messages. Remember, too, that I remain friends with one person from there, a conservative, celibate gay Christian male who is one of the sweetest people I have ever met. I think he is only torturing himself, but I like him a lot. Like him, some people cannot live without religion, and I would like to see some of the really good LGBT people who, for whatever reason, remain Christian find the peace and self-love they really need. To perform a search on GCN, you have to be a member. There are a lot of things that don't show up if you are not a registered member. (Since I am re-banned, I cannot access many things.) @ downtoearth: Why, thank you! I suffered for years with undiagnosed OCD, and I am glad I can do something to prevent others from going through what I did. There are people on my OCD board who are stubborn, don't get treatment, and go on for years as I did, unfortunately. But there are also people who do deal with OCD the right way and get better, and I have had tears in my eyes reading private messages from people I helped find treatment whose lives are so much better. I encourage them to help others as I do. What I do there is real spirituality, and I don't need a god threatening me with hell to be spiritual. Of course, that sort of message is a real threat on GCN. ------------- Not that this has anything to do with this topic, but I have recently come across some great quotes by Desmond Tutu, Anglican Archbishop of Capte Town, South Africa, that show how some Christians are on the side of LGBT people: "Churches say that the expression of love in a heterosexual monogamous relationship includes the physical, the touching, embracing, kissing, the genital act - the totality of our love makes each of us grow to become increasingly godlike and compassionate. If this is so for the heterosexual, what earthly reason have we to say that it is not the case with the homosexual?" "A parent who brings up a child to be a racist damages that child, damages the community in which they live, damages our hopes for a better world. A parent who teaches a child that there is only one sexual orientation and that anything else is evil denies our humanity and their own too." "We treat them as pariahs and push them outside our communities. We make them doubt that they too are children of God - and this must be nearly the ultimate blasphemy. We blame them for what they are." "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God."
  12. Did anyone ever tell you that you're brilliant, pitchu? Shhhh! Careful what you say! I have an inner drama queen screaming to get out. When I was a grad student, I had to conduct interviews to hire undergrads as peer tutors. There was a lot of bad blood between the Assistant Dean of Undergraduate Studies and me, and I was supposed to conduct the interviews in a large suite of offices next to hers. With her walking out to pick at me every few minutes, I simply said "Enough of this!" and, to her stunned expression, picked up the desk. (No, I didn't hit her with it...!) I carried it into the stairwell, brought out a nice chair, hung up a sign saying where I was, and proceeded to conduct interviews there--even when classes were changing and it got crowded. This is something that runs in the family, and it is definitely in my genes. Family weddings and funerals are like something you see on a half hour sit-com. When the casket containing the body of my great Uncle John (my father's uncle) was being carried away, no one could understand why water was dripping out. Then his eldest son, in his 30s at the time, said: "I thought Dad might get thirsty, so I put a glass of water in there." There was a shouting match during the funeral service, congregation to pulpit, as someone misunderstood the priest and thought he had said that John was in hell. I could go on about the family for hours, but let me return to my melodramatic ways. When I was a teenager my parents were throwing away our old toilet, and I thought I would turn it into a planter. I worked on it for hours, and I even color coordinated the flowers with its pink color. My parents loved it and thanked me for my hard work, but my grandmother the control freak, who lived with us, felt that it 'offended her morality'. When we had gone inside she took a baseball bat and smashed it. I was going to smash her windows with the same bat, but my father grabbed me and held me back. Can't you feel the love...? Hoo boy, did I get punished for this next one. You need to know that many in the family were afraid of my maternal grandmother, and when she wanted something she rang a bell and my mother came running like a maid. My father called his mother-in-law "the Czarina." One time I had had it with my grandmother's shenanigans, and I went after her with the garden hose, soaking her INSIDE THE HOUSE! She never knew what hit her. Fortunately, as an adult many years later, I used to laugh with her over what became known as the hose incident. It had become a family classic, though not necessarily one told in my grandmother's presence... So, dear noob, be careful what you wish for!
  13. @ Everyone : I apologize if I sometimes get too melodramatic in my posts. (Read that as my admitting that I have definitely been, shall we say, a bit much in this thread.) It's part of my nature, unfortunately, and since I keep it tightly under control on the job and in my volunteer work--My colleagues think I'm a calm, relaxed person (!!!)--it tends to come out in other places. OCD adds to the mix, of course, as the "O" in OCD stands for "obsessive." That's also a good adjective to describe me in this thread. I'll always be polite and respectful here, but you will always get 100% Ameen--which means at times I will be a bit over the top. Take me with a grain of salt. @ Vomit Comet: You made me laugh aloud! Believe it or not, half Latino and half Arab is more common than most people think. Just as Salma Hayek. @Neon Genesis: So true, so true. That's one of the reasons I ended up on a gay Christian board. The gay community is either ultra holy or ultra triple XXX. Where do those of us who are secular but middle of the road go? Thank the goddess for this board.
  14. Edited by me (Ameen) to include a response to ShackledNoMore: ShackledNoMore: I wrote my post while you were writing yours, and for that reason the issues you brought up are not addressed after the dashes in my (labelled) original post. Yes, you have definitely described Justin. Five years ago, when we talked on the phone and he described some things I don't feel at liberty to repeat here, I really felt sorry for him. I dislike what he has done to me and how he rules GCN with an iron fist, but I don't think he is all bad. He is as much a victim of Christianity as I. Since he's still young (very early 30s now, 26 or 27 when I was on GCN), maybe one day reason will knock at his door. I doubt he'll ever be an atheist, but I think he can become more moderate with age and experience. This last sentence in your post is absolutely true. I give him too much power in my own mind, and I am at fault. Some of that is explained in my post (the part after the dashes); some of it is just my own flaws. ------------------ MY ORIGINAL POST: You are not at all out of line, Seeker630; I am not above criticism and I admire your honesty. Thank you, noob and Seeker630. The events on GCN were five years ago, but they still feel as if they happened yesterday. (This is partly an OCD thing, unfortunately. They would feel the same way fifty years from now unless I resolved them.) I have done wonders in getting rid of most of my severe OCD and depression, and I watch myself carefully to handle any OCD flare ups the right way so that I never return to the way I was. I also take medication (only a low dosage for many years, 25% of what I once needed) and, as you know, I assist behavior therapists in working with others with OCD. But... I have done everything I know of in behavior psychology, and years ago I even went for therapy in the Cult Clinic (an anti-Fundie and anti-cult group here in Manhattan). I am really stuck on this one. I can deal with the thoughts when they pop up, as I have a whole bag of mental behavior therapy tricks. But nothing relieves me of the anger underlying so much of my life. This is the one thing in my life I have never been able to resolve, and it is not just GCN or even just religion. It is the way I was mistreated, belittled, and dismissed for much of my life, long before GCN. The small inroads I have made in this part of healing have come from discussing issues with people and, in one case, having someone I did not even recognize walk up to me and apologize. Let me explain that last one: Years ago in my gym, someone I went to juinor high with walked up to me out of the blue and apologized for everything he had done to me. He later said he was in Alcoholics Anonymous (so I assume he was making amends). I did not shout at him or mock him; I have never been in an Anonymous program but I know how they work. For that reaon, I told him it took a real man to say that, and that, in my eyes, he had wiped his slate clean. I spoke spontaneously, and I meant it. Years of hating him are just gone--gone for good--and I hope that I helped him in his recovery as well. I don't need revenge. I just need to have my identity as a human being respected, and I will always do the same in return. That is the main reason I am here. As an OCD person, I know how dangerous it is for me to hold strong emotions in. My closest friend (since 1992) is an atheist whom I can confide in, but all of the other people I am close to are religious. I do have other atheist friends whom I have fun with, but I am not close enough to any of them to confide much. So, in addition to wanting to help others on GCN who are trapped in self-hate, I am trying to help myself as well. A few weeks ago at work ,one of my fellow professors and I had steamy words, and we were both angry when we parted. A few hours later I sought her out and apologized even though I felt I had contributed much less than 50%. She immediately went into a rant about what I had done, and all I said was "You're right. I'm sorry." I saw how deeply the issues had upset her, and I did something about it with no expectation of anything back from her. (To my surprise, she came up to me and apologized about half an hour later, admitting that she had not been listening to what I was saying during the argument.) Why did I do it? I know that no matter how blameless I may think myself, it takes two to tango. I also knew that if I did not make a move we might end up furious with each other for who knows how long. And she was very upset; I was the cause of her pain. What's the point in making someone suffer needlessly? I don't know what else is going on in her life, and I don't know if, in her mind, I represented another man who was making her unhappy. Isn't this how Christians are supposed to think when they interact with others? This is why part of me is still so surprised even though I know enough about human nature not to be. In short, I am willing to admit that at times I can be as out of line as the next person, and on GCN there were times I was out of line or unprofessional; again it takes two to tango, and you can consider GCN one entity and me another. But both entities did things they should not have. Human beings talk and resolve differences. I must sound like an idealistic teenager. Yeah, I do. What else can I say? I know how evil people are, but I want to believe they can also be decent.
  15. It's been more than a week since Justin expressed his willingness to discuss the issues in public, and he has not responded to my e-mail or unfrozen my account. This is so discouraging. For a minute I thought I could actually start to heal from some of the abuse I suffered at the hands of Christians and also help a few people on GCN chill out, but instead I just get to continue carrying my wounds around for life. I have been tracking down some of the e-mail addresses of other members and asking them to remind Justin, but they haven't responded either. Maybe there is a reason: Easter, a family emergency... I hope so. (Not that I hope he had an emergency. I hope there is an honorable reason for his lack of response.) Can you believe that after all this time I still expect Fundie Christians to practice what they preach and be honorable? If I had no intention of allowing someone to speak, I'd grow some balls and simply tell the person no. That hurts less. If you're curious about what Justin looks like, here's his Amazon profile. His photo is on the upper left, and he is wearing a blue shirt: http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A3VSFRQS311JB6 Also, here's his Wikipedia entry (no picture): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_W._Lee
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.