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Overcame Faith

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Posts posted by Overcame Faith

  1. Welcome to ExC.


    The thing about believing in Jesus is how do you even know whether he actually existed and is not  based on myth expanded upon in the Gospels.  Second, assuming Jesus did exist, how do you know what he actually said and did?

    Your sources that purport to answer these questions are religious, not historical, texts and they are thus very biased in favor of a particular theological point of view.  Even the four Gospels do not agree with each other on what Jesus purportedly said and did.  For example, let’s take his baptism.  In Mark, Matthew, and Luke, he was said to have been baptized by John the Baptist.  However, in the Gospel of John, not only was he not baptized by John the Baptist, there is nothing there about him being baptized at all.


    There are many conflicts and inconsistencies between the Gospels.  So many, in fact, that their various stories about Jesus are very doubtful.


    Try studying on these matters carefully and without the blindness caused by faith.

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  2. Welcome, BookOfMicah.  Glad you are here and that you left Mormonism/Christianity.  Your name is very interesting.  In honor of your name, I thought this quote from Micah might explain a lot:


    Therefore night will come over you, without visions,
        and darkness, without divination.
    The sun will set for the prophets,
        and the day will go dark for them.
    The seers will be ashamed
        and the diviners disgraced.
    They will all cover their faces
        because there is no answer from God.”


    Micah 3:6-7

  3. Welcome, Mama28,


    Glad you came here and glad you began the self-examination that has led you to new revelations about yourself.  As others have assured you, there is no hell.  It does not exist, except in the minds of Christians.  Yes, it is a mind thing, a form of brainwashing that Christians specialize in as they read scriptures to you out of context, fill you full of false guilt over non-existent “sins”, tell you adamantly what their false God demands of you (in your case, marriage and eight children) when they don’t even comprehend that an infinite God (as they claim to follow) cannot be understood by a finite human, yet they define their god in great detail in such a way to ensure they control you with the fire and fury of their so-called infinite God.


    Undoubtedly, you have been through hell, a man made hell, and now is the time to continue what you so wisely started.  Continue to work toward freedom.  You have come to the right place!

  4. Welcome, Canada27,


    Yeah, Christianity depends on faith/belief in Jesus as the Son of God, etc., etc.  Without it, it all evaporates into thin air as I believe you experienced.  I am Glad you were not so far into it that you had to struggle with letting it go as many who were lifetime Christians must.  It can be a difficult ordeal, and I know this from personal experience.


    But, thankfully for you, you were not indoctrinated into the religion from birth.  I am glad for you, and am especially glad you saw through it so quickly and dumped the religion in the trash heap where it belongs.


    i look forward to hearing more from you.

  5. BarnOwl,


    It’s the God of the Bible you are having a difficult time with.  Frankly, I must say that taking the Bible as a whole, I think one must really jump through some difficult theological hoops to find the God of that book sympathetic to homosexuality.  Some do it and I am glad that they can remain a part of the Christian faith if that makes them happy.  But to me, the negative passages in the Bible toward homosexuality demonstrates its human (not divine) origins because the Biblical view does not take into account the strong evidence that people do not choose to be gay any more than others chooses to be straight.  People are the way they are, like some are left handed and most are right handed.  It’s not a choice, it’s who they are.


    In short, if you long for spirituality, don’t look for it in the Bible.  Look for it deep within yourself.  Meditate on it, think on it, try to find it because it is there in you (and all of us though expressed differently from person to person).

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  6. 12 hours ago, BarnOwl said:

    So no, I have been living the past week in a state of high stress and anxiety at the ideas I’ve been considering. I know that I am either choosing to leave my faith or choosing to bare my cross.

    Then by all means begin the process of bringing a halt to your suffering.  Leave that which is not based in reality for that which is.  Leave that false religion behind you with due haste and we will be here to help bring you through it.

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  7. 2 hours ago, BarnOwl said:

    If I’m honest, I probably wouldn’t even be doubting my faith so much to feel the need to post here if it wasn’t for being gay. But being gay and wanting what that means is forcing me analyze my faith and why I believe the way I do.


    Part of me even wonders if the idea of losing my faith is an emotional one in order to give myself permission to live the life I want. I can definitely say that thought is one that prevents me from being able to even trust my own judgement right now.


    Essentially, being gay means leaving the faith. Staying with the faith means either staying celibate or trying to find a way to “be straight.”


    I don’t see a way to separate the two, personally. They basically go hand in hand in my mind.

    Yes, this is the struggle I saw in your OP.  If I understand your struggle, there are two things that you want, but in your mind, you cannot have both.  So the struggle is whether to remain a Christian but not act on your natural desires as a gay man, suppress it, in other words, or give up Christianity and express your true self in the sense of being gay.


    Don’t make life any more difficult than it already is.  If you still like Christianity and don’t want to give that up, then by all means, don’t.  There are denominations out there that are very gay friendly, perform gay weddings, ordain gay men and women, etc.  look for one of these churches that will accept you as you are.  If you then want to leave Christianity, then deal with that issue once you are comfortable with yourself being gay.  One step at a time.

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  8. Welcome BarnOwl (cool name!).  Glad you came to ExC to let it out and talk about the things that are bothering you.


    It sounds like there are two issues with which you are struggling.  The first is coming out as gay.  The second is coming out after leaving the Christian faith behind.


    i have some thoughts on this, but I am curious as to where you see these two issues intersecting in a way that, from my reading, you could hardly separate them.


    i ask this in a friendly and nonjudgmental manner and look forward to your response.

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  9. 1 hour ago, cb1500 said:

    Well, I just got back from the group meetup.  The people there were nice and supportive, and It was really good to be able to talk with people who have the same mindset.  One of the group leaders is a former minister who's now an atheist, so that was very interesting to see.  I don't feel quite as alone anymore.

    It sounds like you got involved with a good group.  So glad you had a positive experience.

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  10. 8 minutes ago, cb1500 said:

    My group meetup for Recovering from Religion is tomorrow, but I'm just feeling really crappy tonight.  I'm extremely terrified about the blasphemy thing again and just feel stuck and hopeless.  I don't really know what to say or why I'm posting this, but I'm honestly ready to just break down crying.  I nearly passed out last night from a panic attack.  

    So sorry you are feeling such angst.  The truth is that “blasphemy” is like “hell” in that neither exists.  Try and get your mind off of such things and onto the excitement of meeting a group whom you understand and who understand you because all of you have been through the religious-related problems.  You just might help some of those people and some of them just might help you to cope, too.


    Drop the thoughts of the non-existent so-called sin of blasphemy, and turn them to how exciting that meeting will be.

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  11. 36 minutes ago, Fuego said:


    Which would be a much more Jewish approach. The commandments were so they could have their god's favor and live well on Earth, not even a promise of an afterlife, certainly nothing about damnation (except perhaps poetically as destruction, chaff being burnt). 



    Agreed.  John is much more like the Jewish approach except for eternal life for believers.  That was the author’s incentive for people to join the Christian movement.

  12. I am not at all surprised by the quoted defense of the doctrine of hell as the writer expressed it.  Since I left Christianity, I have continued exploring the Bible and, in particular, the four Gospels.  What I have seen is that at least by my reading, is that the common Christian concept of hell does not match the actual words in the Gospels.  Hell is not that important in the Gospels, though many Christians definitely focus on it, especially certain preachers who use it to scare people into becoming Christians to avoid such described punishment.


    The Gospel that stands out the most to me that does not speak of eternal punishment is the Gospel of John.  Take one of the most well known verses of the Bible, John 3:16.


    ”For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.”


    Now, let’s look at the obverse of that verse.  It would be something like this:


    ”For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that whosoever does not believe in him shall perish and not have everlasting life.”


    In other words, the result of not believing in Jesus is not eternal torture in hell, but, instead, Jesus will not call nonbelievers from the grave so that from that point forward they will live forever like he will with believers.  See John 6:40 (“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”)


    This reading of John requires reading John separately from the other Gospels and truthfully searching for the meaning of that Gospel and that Gospel alone and not allowing the other Gospels to bleed over into it.


    Bottom line is that the Gospel of John does not have hell, but only eternal life or eternal death (but no hellish torture).


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  13. 5 minutes ago, Bhim said:


    Welcome back sir. Thank you for eloquently stating what I also believe. You joined this site around the same time I did. I believe you were a couple years earlier than I, I'll need to check my join date. After leaving Jesus I also found the doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell for nonbelievers to be a detestable and vile belief, and to be one of the most awful things that Christianity teaches. I thank you for recognizing how false and deceptive this belief is, and for pointing it out so directly. Like you, I too have left Christianity and never turned back. A lot of my ideologies have transformed over time. I've returned to the Hindu religion in which I was raised, and adapted my religious beliefs in light of the Christian "values" I left behind. I've figured out how to be religious without believing in anything resembling Jesus. I've transitioned from an academic scientist to an industry sellout. I've even joined the American political dark side (yeah, yeah, I joined team Trump, but let's not go there right now). But one thing I never did was reconsider my lack of belief in Jesus. Jesus is impotent to save anyone from the imaginary hell of fire. However intellectually diverse this community is, we all share a common belief that Jesus is no god at all, and that is an important common unifying principle. In a culture that is dominated by the Christian religion, it's important to associate with a group of like-minded individuals who know that Jesus is not just a false deity, but an outright evil individual who poisons the human soul with a manufactured fear of hell.


    I'm glad you've reconnected with ex-C; I look forward to many great conversations.


    Hi, Bhim,


    I remember you and am glad to be back and also glad to be communicating with you.


    if I remember correctly, you were Hindu who converted to Christianity.  You then started seeing the same problems with Christianity that are so commonly written about here, but which are not so easily dealt with.


    i am glad to hear that you were able to shed yourself of Christianity.  And i, too, look forward to communicating with you.

  14. 37 minutes ago, Myrkhoos said:

    I got into deep doubt about christianity or the version I was served because of Hell. The God image of my church seems like a manipulating narcissist , a projection of a ruthless psychopathic tribal chieftain to me. If there such a reality or being as God I refuse to thing he is a cosmic bully hell bent on power in that way.

    Promoting the concept of hell as something real is one of the most cruel things one person can do to another.  Once I firmly realized that hell is a manipulative lie, I felt a real sense of freedom.

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  15. Try thinking in logical terms when the issue on your mind is hell.  The Christian viewpoint is that one sin requires a person to burn in hell for eternity.  But the Savior, Jesus, came as a means of redemption so each person who believes in him and repents of sin will escape hell and go to heaven because belief in Jesus garners forgiveness of sin.

    Begin with that.  So a person born in the Amazon jungle and who never heard of Jesus and thus could not profess belief in him must go to hell because of the circumstances of his or her birth?  Does that make sense?  Of course it doesn’t.


    Another anomaly.  Suppose there is a good person who helps the poor, assists children in need, and does any number of good deeds in his or her life.  However, this person does not believe in Jesus.  One day he or she sees another person whom he or she finds sexually attractive and in his or her heart he or she lusts after that person.  According to Matthew 5:28, the one who lusted committed the sin of adultery.  Immediately after this lustful episode, the person crosses the street, is hit by a car, and dies.  Does this otherwise good person go to hell just because he or she was human enough to find another person sexually attractive?  That’s ridiculous.


    My point is that if we mere humans can point out these absurdities, then it proves that all of the talk of hell is of human, not divine, origin.  An Omniscient god would be perfect in his proclamations and we mere humans would not be able to find the logical fallacies.


    Hell is not real.  The concept is of human origin as proven by the fact that we can see the lack of logic in the concept.


    Rest your mind.  Hell is falsehood.

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  16. On 1/19/2020 at 4:08 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

    Hi Overcame Faith


    Welcome back. Like TABA I came along while you were away - 2016 it was.


    And yes the term deconversion is still in use.






    Good to meet you, LF.  Good name, it says a lot.  So many Christians don’t even realize their logical fallacies.  What I like is that your name lays it to them direct and hard core.  Great job!

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  17. On 1/20/2020 at 11:41 PM, Joshpantera said:


    Welcome back! 


    We're still letting newbie's know the facts on the table, which, point to the above conclusions. Still debating apologist's for the sake of onlooking readers as well. Keeping those blow hards and bluffs against the ropes when they throw arrogant and untenable claims around. For the sake of the viewing audience. We just finished whipping around a run of several of them last year. Until they crawled off to lick their wounds.


    It went quite over the holidays. Maybe some more will come along and try and their luck in 2020. We'll just have to wait and see. 

    Now, that is what I wanted to hear!  The apologists must be defeated for the sake of the newly deconverted.  Great job.  I am proud of you and the rest who insist that the truth be known.

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