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older last won the day on October 26

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    Logic, reason, common sense.
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    I'm probably older than most of the members here and have some life experience to look back upon. I never bought into religion and find it the source of too many wars. The more I look at Christianity, the more preposterous it becomes.

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?

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  1. You had the best of intentions. Any mistakes that you made were not intentional; you did what you thought was right at the time. Read Margee's wise post again.
  2. I agree with Astreja and Sdelsolray. Tangible, testable, understandable, independently verifiable evidence. If the messages of the alleged Christian god are as important as Christians say they are, and if said god is as powerful as claimed, then he would not hide from his subjects, and would make his messages abundantly and perfectly clear, and not fill them with contradictions, logical fallacies and non-sequiturs, or couch them in riddles and mystery.
  3. Just because A precedes B does not mean that A causes B. Our neighbors have chickens. Every morning, without fail, the rooster starts to crow yet it is completely dark. After a while, the sun comes up. But the rooster's crow is not what causes the sun to come up.
  4. Welcome, WWOAC: You aren't the first one to be in such a position. You could start by giving us a little history; where you were and how you got to where you are now.
  5. There wasn't one core piece. There were many pieces. 1. When I was about ten, thinking that I hadn't done anything wrong so how can I have sinned? 2. About the same age, sitting in church in uncomfortable clothes, being bored out of my mind and wondering why one of my two days of freedom each week was spoiled by this. 3. When I was about 12, wondering how there can be only one god yet there is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. How can one be three? 4. A few years later, realizing that none of it makes any sense. 5. Finally, when sitting at a picnic table with friends and, in the middle of a conversation about something else, one friend made a rather out-of-context comment that he was an atheist. It suddenly dawned on me. Holy shit! So am I. No more nervousness, no more guilt, no more lingering doubts. Freedom.
  6. How can you blaspheme something that doesn't exist?
  7. I once read, but have been unable to verify, that Einstein thought the universe was a mobius sphere. (Is that correct?) Thus if you left a given point and travelled long enough you would end up where you started. While a mobius band is easy enough to make (Just take the belt off your pants, turn one end over 180 degrees and reattach. Trace along with your finger and you'll go over both "sides" of the belt and end up at the starting point. But the belt now only has one side.), visualizing a mobius sphere is something that doesn't work for my limited brain.
  8. ^ ^ ^ And at some point, the fear and guilt will go away and you'll feel a great weight lift from your shoulders.
  9. My daughter and son-in-law are fundies and, fortunately, reasonably tolerant ones. They have adopted five kids with disabilities from a country where those disabilities are looked upon extremely negatively. They all were abandoned at birth and would have ended up in the gutter or in the sex trade, without a doubt. While it pains me to have them brainwashed with Christianity, they are well adjusted, smart and capable and a joy to us all. Considering the alternative, being brought up in a fundie home in America will be much better for them than what would have happened if they had remained in their country. The parents know I'm an atheist but we all get along and I get to spend oodles of time with the kids as they live on the other side of town. We just don't discuss religion or politics.
  10. Glad to see progress. I hope your neighbors will all band together with you and appear at the same time. You can anticipate that she'll just point to you as the problem unless you have some backup.
  11. I agree with Walter’s hypothesis; that there are different ways of thinking and that cross communication can be difficult or impossible. Just this week I was thinking about a book written back in 1972 titled “Fire In The Lake” by Frances FitzGerald, which is a history of Vietnam and America’s involvement in it. She makes the same point: that the world views and thought processes of two different peoples, in this case Americans and Southeast Asians, were so different that it was impossible for them to communicate, and certainly impossible to accept the viewpoint of the other. And what I read in this thread goes to the definition of what truth means to each different party and the difficulty of finding some common ground for understanding. While this is an interesting issue to discuss, I would suggest that the problem for those of us who are not Christian is that part of the Christian truth is to push their view onto others. Personally, I have no issue with anyone holding something true that does not match my truth. I do, however, have a problem when someone tries to push their notions onto me. And just as America’s self-righteous attitude did not work in S. E. Asia, Christianity’s self-righteous truths do not work for many people everywhere. One of those self-righteous truths is Christianity’s insistence that it is right and that everyone should follow its precepts, and its tendency to force those precepts upon others, through brute force, the force of law, or overt or covert social pressure. ' In short, have your own truth, just leave me alone with mine.
  12. Hi KD: Glad you've contacted a secular counselor. One of the things that counseling does is to show you that you are not alone with this; and that in itself is a big help. It's hard when your rational mind and your emotional mind go in different, conflicting directions. All of us have those conflicts; it just depends on the specific issue and the severity of it. You will beat this.
  13. Well, at least you will get some rest for a few days. Unfortunately, when she is "stable" she'll be back. Yes, do pursue the restraining order. What are the other neighbors' positions on calling the cops and/or getting restraining orders? Can you get them to back you up on the record?
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