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Posts posted by older

  1. 14 hours ago, Kdeaustin said:

    I may have already asked this but I was just wondering like what was the final straw that broke the camels back with you all losing your faith? Like if you had to pick one core piece of evidence? 

    There wasn't one core piece. There were many pieces.

    1. When I was about ten, thinking that I hadn't done anything wrong so how can I have sinned?

    2. About the same age, sitting in church in uncomfortable clothes, being bored out of my mind and wondering why one of my two days of freedom each week was spoiled by this.

    3. When I was about 12, wondering how there can be only one god yet there is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. How can one be three?

    4. A few years later, realizing that none of it makes any sense.

    5. Finally, when sitting at a picnic table with friends and, in the middle of a conversation about something else, one friend made a rather out-of-context comment that he was an atheist. It suddenly dawned on me. Holy shit! So am I. No more nervousness, no more guilt, no more lingering doubts. Freedom.

  2. I once read, but have been unable to verify, that Einstein thought the universe was a mobius sphere. (Is that correct?) Thus if you left a given point and travelled long enough you would end up where you started. While a mobius band is easy enough to make (Just take the belt off your pants, turn one end over 180 degrees and reattach. Trace along with your finger and you'll go over both "sides" of the belt and end up at the starting point. But the belt now only has one side.), visualizing a mobius sphere is something that doesn't work for my limited brain.

  3. My daughter and son-in-law are fundies and, fortunately, reasonably tolerant ones. They have adopted five kids with disabilities from a country where those disabilities are looked upon extremely negatively. They all were abandoned at birth and would have ended up in the gutter or in the sex trade, without a doubt. While it pains me to have them brainwashed with Christianity, they are well adjusted, smart and capable and a joy to us all. Considering the alternative, being brought up in a fundie home in America will be much better for them than what would have happened if they had remained in their country. The parents know I'm an atheist but we all get along and I get to spend oodles of time with the kids as they live on the other side of town. We just don't discuss religion or politics. 

  4. On 11/1/2019 at 7:22 PM, Fuego said:

    I got a restraining order today, but hearing isn't for 3 weeks. Others picked up the forms from me and I sent them a step-by-step email of how to turn them in at the courthouse. They can also add a temporary restraint in the meantime to forbid contact until the hearing. I should have done that also.

    Glad to see progress. I hope your neighbors will all band together with you and appear at the same time. You can anticipate that she'll just point to you as the problem unless you have some backup.

    • Like 1

  5. I agree with Walter’s hypothesis; that there are different ways of thinking and that cross communication can be difficult or impossible. Just this week I was thinking about a book written back in 1972 titled “Fire In The Lake” by Frances FitzGerald, which is a history of Vietnam and America’s involvement in it. She makes the same point: that the world views and thought processes of two different peoples, in this case Americans and Southeast Asians, were so different that it was impossible for them to communicate, and certainly impossible to accept the viewpoint of the other.


    And what I read in this thread goes to the definition of what truth means to each different party and the difficulty of finding some common ground for understanding. While this is an interesting issue to discuss, I would suggest that the problem for those of us who are not Christian is that part of the Christian truth is to push their view onto others. Personally, I have no issue with anyone holding something true that does not match my truth. I do, however, have a problem when someone tries to push their notions onto me. And just as America’s self-righteous attitude did not work in S. E. Asia, Christianity’s self-righteous truths do not work for many people everywhere. One of those self-righteous truths is Christianity’s insistence that it is right and that everyone should follow its precepts, and its tendency to force those precepts upon others, through brute force, the force of law, or overt or covert social pressure. 


    In short, have your own truth, just leave me alone with mine.

    • Like 2

  6. Hi KD:

    Glad you've contacted a secular counselor. One of the things that counseling does is to show you that you are not alone with this; and that in itself is a big help.


    It's hard when your rational mind and your emotional mind go in different, conflicting directions. All of us have those conflicts; it just depends on the specific issue and the severity of it. You will beat this.

  7. Well, at least you will get some rest for a few days. Unfortunately, when she is "stable" she'll be back. Yes, do pursue the restraining order. What are the other neighbors' positions on calling the cops and/or getting restraining orders? Can you get them to back you up on the record?

  8. That really sucks, Fuego. I'm surprised that the lawyers aren't encouraging. I would think that you could get a restraining order on this nutcase. In the mean time I hope you're collecting evidence, photos, videos, recordings, etc., in case it gets to the point where you have to find a lawyer who will work with you.


    Sometimes I think the only answer is to buy 140 acres and put the house right in the middle. But then I suspect that true assholes would still find a way to annoy us. When traveling in rural areas I totally get it when I see fortress-like gates and big signs warning of serous consequences for trespassers (My Pit Bull Can Make It From The House To The Fence Line In 14 Seconds. Can You? Or This Property Protected By Smith & Wesson).

    • Like 1

  9. One issue in understanding other cultures is the bias, intentional or unintentional, that arises on each side of the cultural divide. (Another of those issues is that the history of a conflict is written by the victor.) I'd recommend two books as providing some insight as to this bias. One is An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States, by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz. This is not a fun book; it's a look at the history of this country from a perspective not taught in K-12 schools, and the story is how one culture was essentially wiped out by another. Another is A People's History of the United States, by Howard Zinn. Again, much of what is in this book is not in the traditional histories. I think what one learns from reading these books is how one culture can overwhelm and dominate another, and that Western culture, and American culture in particular, is one of those that is filled with hubris and thinks that its way of being, doing and thinking is the best way and should eagerly be accepted by everyone else.

    • Like 2

  10. 3 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

    You're going through a very rough time, with a lot of anxiety. At this point in time I would recommend a mental health professional that you can talk to. Preferably a secular one who will let YOU come to decisions regarding your beliefs instead of unduly influencing you based on their own. 


    ^  ^  ^ Good advice. And you are right in wanting to talk to someone. While we can listen and encourage you, you need some instant, one-on-one feedback. Hang in there. It does get better.

  11. 30 minutes ago, Karna said:

    Have you traveled a lot outside of where you are from? Maybe you have...


    If you haven't, I want to encourage you to travel and experience other cultures before you pass judgements. I bet if you traveled to Nepal you would be welcomed wholeheartedly and warmly. Even if they are economically and technologically backward, humanity isn't missing there. All it takes is to travel and experience other cultures to find out that other cultures are good in their own way - even though they may be not similar to yours.


    For others - I have mentioned this before - but take a look at Joshua Project and you will find out how a certain group of people is bent upon invading and destroying other cultures around the world.


    X2. International travel is one of the most educational and worthwhile things a person can do. And that travel should be individual and not within packaged tours which tend to keep you within your group and comfort zone. Meeting people from other cultures and discovering how they think expands one's world view and teaches that there are many ways of thinking and being, all of which are valid, and none of which is particularly superior to another.

    • Like 1

  12. 4 hours ago, Kdeaustin said:

    And I’ve been seeing the number 44 everywhere. Is there any Biblical meaning to this number that you all know of? My friend sent me a song today about God being faithful and the length of the song was 4:44 and then after that I went to look up the length of another song about him being faithful and it was 3:44. I’m seeing it everywhere on my phone on my clocks on other people’s clocks. I pulled into a parking lot a few weeks ago and two cars side by side had 44 on the end of the license plates. I was telling someone I’ve been seeing it everywhere and right when I was telling her a person on the tv said “I’m 44 years old” 


    As LF wrote above, you are programmed to see that. (Like LF, I bought a Subaru. I hadn't seen many of them around but since I bought mine, I'm shocked by how many folks have seen me driving around and then gone out and bought one. Amazing. I see them everywhere. I should get a commission from Subaru.  ;) )


    Jump over to this thread and scroll down to LogicalFallacy's post about ten posts down. He makes a great argument that might give you some things to think about:



  13. 20 hours ago, Pain said:

    Yes, but Christianity, it's organization, community and customs is probably better than whatever indigenous culture is being supplanted. This is easy to demonstrate. Is head hunting, arranged marriage, taboo, etc, really noble, natural and pure? Nope. It's societal, and imperfect. 

    I'm glad to be free of my catholic upbringing. But, if it wasn't for them, we'd  still be sacrificing virgins.  


    You are making an unfair generalization about indigenous cultures. All cultures have their positives and negatives including Christianity. For example, while Christians don't practice head hunting, many of it's practitioners support capital punishment. And I'm not aware of Asian cultures sacrificing virgins. And from what I know so far I see much in the Native American culture that is superior to Christianity. For example, their attitude about their relationship to the earth. And the concept of total war was brought to Native Americans by white Christian men. And while I can't find my source for this, I once read that Lewis and Clark returned to Washington with an Indian chief who was surprised to see poor people on the streets. The chief said that in their culture no one goes hungry, while in America today, according to a story on CNN, there are 13.1 million households where children go hungry. Yes, I acknowledge that these cultures have their negatives, but I can't agree with the notion that Christianity is superior. Such an attitude is part of the problem I have with the religion.

    • Like 2

  14. I've mentioned before on this forum a distant relative who went to a Greek island to build houses, after which they went around handing out Bibles. In telling us about this, he said,

     "And some of them threw them at us," and he chuckled. What an idiot. All these folks just don't get it.

    • Haha 1

  15. I just read a column by Jay Ambrose, a conservative columnist, about Attorney General William Barr's recent speech on religious freedom. Ambrose repeats the claim that Christians are being persecuted, and goes on to write:

         "Christianity has been a major force in giving us science, universities, liberty and the values that still instruct to at least some extent the values of many nonbelievers."


    Christianity gave us science? Liberty? Values? Are you kidding me?


    Anyone who spends two hours studying the history of science and religion knows that Christianity has been anti-science for 2000 years. The father of modern science, Galileo, narrowly escaped death for demonstrating heliocentrism and was sentenced to life of house arrest; and at least one other person was burned at the stake for it. And Christianity has fought against science ever since; even today with significant numbers of Christians insisting that the universe is only 6000 years old, denying evolution, and more.


    As to liberty, for centuries Christians used horrific brute force to impose their religion on others, and they continue to pursue such an imposition through legislating their beliefs, and through overt and covert social pressure.


    Finally, the notion of "Christian values," is a commonly heard but specious claim. Most of the values Christians self-righteously label as their own are, in reality, universal values shared by many cultures. The only values that can rightfully be labeled "Christian" would be those that are not found anywhere else, and I have yet to hear a single one that is that exclusive.


    I urge you to read Ambrose's column. It's yet another mind-bending screed from someone who knows little of history and who follows the real Christian values of defying logic, ignoring the facts, and denying reality.



    • Like 4

  16. When people ask me what I believe, I answer that I believe in the inherent goodness of man. I believe that almost all people try to do the right thing (and many of them only because it is the right thing to do, and not because they are afraid of some diety). 


    I also believe in the opposite of some of Christianity's basis: I believe that the human body is good and beautiful, that sex is good and wonderful, and that death is normal and final. 


    As MOHO wrote, I believe in science, reason and logic. I accept fact and I am not concerned about finding answers to everything; I am willing to accept that there are things we just do not understand. I do not believe in spirits or gods of any sort.

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 3

  17. It depends on the relationship and the nature of your rent-free deal. Was it an invitation or a demand?


    Option 1: Just pretend you're at a poorly written and produced play with bad scenery, costumes and lighting. Consider the plot to be a farce, albeit a boring one. Sometimes there are snacks  mid-way through but you might not get any. And when it's over you might get to shake hands with the director on the way out. If there is a balcony, sit up there and spend the time counting the bald heads below and the number of other hairstyles or whatever you can see.


    Option 2: Assert yourself and tell him that, thanks but no thanks, you don't care to go. Don't get into a discussion of the reasons. Just say that you don't care to go. (Google "Assertive Rights.")

    • Like 1

  18. 6 hours ago, Fuego said:

    I keep thinking I should come up with a scam. So many people with money to burn...



    It would be easy. Come up with a religion or life philosophy (involve health cures in some way) and set up a web page to promote it. You'll soon be wealthy beyond your imagination. 


    How about Marinism? Marinism brings the life force of the sea into your body through mindful approbation of the inherent translucency of the either, intertransifying your center to dissipate illness and regenerate the synergy of serene consciousness. Intertransification is accomplished through slow ingestion of our organic blended peanut butter/sweet pickle compote, which you can order through our website. Our full line of Marinisitic products, including osmotic fish oil and anemonic body cleanser can be ordered there as well. I hereby offer this to you without condition other than I get ten percent of the gross.

    • Like 1
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