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older

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Posts posted by older


  1. 52 minutes ago, midniterider said:

     

    Thank goodness for term limits. 

      

    But, unfortunately, not in the House or Senate. It could be argued that the Speaker of the House and the Senate leader have more power than the president. Yes, the pres has the nuclear codes but lots of other kinds of damage can be caused by the legislature.

    • Like 2

  2. 1 minute ago, Joshpantera said:

    But do you feel that by watching these interactions you've learned more about ways in which to debate them? You may get the point where you feel like you've seen it all (it will happen, there's only so many places these arguments can go) and can yourself address just about anything a christian could ever throw your way. 

      

    I do. I'm not good at thinking on my feet. IOW, an in-person debate. Given time, I can write something up but even then I can sense something that doesn't make sense but I don't see the logical fallacies easily. 


  3. Well written, UmNo. I'll take a look at that book. I hope he details some of the ways the church, which more often than not was the same as the government, dealt with those they were unhappy with. Today's capital punishment, inhumane as it is, doesn't come close to what happened to folks back then. (It's interesting that so many of today's alleged Christians support "tough on crime" efforts including capital punishment.)


  4. On 2/11/2020 at 3:38 AM, BookOfMicah said:

    3.  Furthermore if God does exist and expects more of me than to be a good person, and would punish me with eternal hell for not believing in him, is not a God worth worshipping.  

       

    :58:

     

     

    And welcome. Please stick around and join in the discussions.


  5. My reaction includes parts of all the above: I agree that LMTO was one of the better Christians, and I'm glad he was here. The Lion's Den is the place for such chat, and I think it is worthwhile to have our notions challenged from time to time. And for those of us who are not strong debaters, we can learn more about how that works by reading those of you who are skilled at it. The obnoxious trolls can be cut off by the mods and those who are decent but boring and circular can just be ignored.

    • Like 1

  6. 5 hours ago, Lost_more_then_Once said:

    Consider it along the lines of "buyer beware" when someone is out shopping.

       

    But we are not out shopping. We have chosen to leave the store. You are the sidewalk barker, beckoning us to come in. If you want us to come back inside, you will have to provide tangible, independently verifiable, logically consistent, reasons why we should do so.

    • Like 3

  7. The comments above lead me to thinking about how Christianity seems to be the default position here in the US. It seems to me that when people talk to each other about philosophical topics, they are more likely to ask, "Which church do you go to?" than to even suggest that the other person might not be a church goer. And, as someone suggested in another thread here, what happens to an atheist who lives in a community that is very heavily Christian, such as some of the southern states, if that person comes out? It has been noted on this forum that there are groups out there who would do violence to such a person. 


  8. 5 hours ago, fallenleaf said:

    Now, this sounds like I am less organized than I am,

      

    Winnie-the-Pooh, who was a great philosopher, once said, “One of the advantages of being disorganized is that one is always having surprising discoveries.”

    • Haha 1

  9. 12 hours ago, fallenleaf said:

    Another wonderful Sunday morning. 

       

    Bah humbug.  :eviltongue: I went out to my workshop this morning and started to play with my hobby. I pulled an Item out of my parts department and set it on the workbench. I turned around and the Nasty Shop Fairy had taken it and it was nowhere to be found. I searched everywhere, including down on the floor looking under the workbench, and in the trash. And it should be noted that I keep a clean shop, no piles of junk or loose tools, nowhere for the Item to hide. Lots of Navy language. :screams: Ruined my whole morning. Closed up the shop, went back into the house and sulked the rest of the morning. After nap and some chocolate, I returned to the shop and discovered that the Nasty Shop Fairy had hidden it in a box of parts that I had previously spread out on the workbench and then gathered up and put away.

     

    So to the Nasty Shop Fairy, I defer to Willy Shake-a-spear:

    [Thou art] a knave, a rascal, an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-liver’d, action-taking knave; a whoreson, glass-gazing, superserviceable, finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd, in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pandar, and the son and heir of a mongrel bitch. 

    ….

    You are not worth the dust which the rude wind Blows in your face.

     

    And no, I would NOT have been better off in Church!  :mad:

    • Haha 2

  10. 1 hour ago, Weezer said:

    These "conversations" with Christians always seem to follow a similar path.  They come here to "talk", but it winds up in them trying to save us, and it all comes to a dead end.  

       

    Yeah. I've looked for an emoji that would symbolize a conversation that is going around in circles, but I don't see one. But that looks like where we are. 


  11. 10 hours ago, AyahuascaPhoenix said:

    He then comes up with some batshit crazy conspiracy theory about how ex-christian must be some evil plot by the Russians to lead America's youth astray.

    Dang! We've been exposed! (It's Hillary.)

     

    10 hours ago, AyahuascaPhoenix said:

    And then he kept going off about moral values and how we need religion to tell us right from wrong.

    Boy, there is a lot that could be said in response to this, although it's best not to.

    - How about Numbers 31 where God tells Moses to have his men kill all the Midianites including the women and children but keep the virgin girls for themselves?

    - How about Exodus 21, which comes right after the Ten Comandments, where it gives guidelines for keeping slaves and selling your daughter, and says that if you beat your slave and he or she lives for a couple of days before dying you're not responsible for the death?

    - How about Deuteronomy 22 where it says that if a woman is raped in the city she should be put to death because she didn't yell loud enough?

     

    And, of course, we could fill up this site with examples spanning the entire history of Christianity that lead to major human rights violations . (Ah.... but those folks — all of them — were not True Christians™.)

    • Thanks 1

  12. On 2/5/2020 at 6:52 PM, BarnOwl said:

    Learning that just because I make mistakes doesn’t make me morally wrong at the core is one of the most liberating ideas I’ve read yet on here. I’ve always felt that everyone was good at heart and just made bad decisions because we’re not perfect, and we’re learning as a species.

       

    Well written. I think we need to look at ourselves from a distance. Perhaps we could call it micro-self-evaluation vs. macro-self-evaluation. Every person on this planet has made major mistakes from the micro perspective. And it can be difficult for us to deal with the feelings of guilt and failure that can accompany those errors. But one way to work past that is to step back to a macro perspective. As you have written, most people are good at heart, and we need to look at ourselves the same way. If life's deeds were placed on a balance scale, if the scale tips to the good, we're doing OK.

    • Like 2

  13.  

    16 hours ago, Lost_more_then_Once said:

    I can't fault people for being forceful with their religion any more then I can fault people for being forceful with their politics.  If you think it's right, then that is your standard to live by.  That alone is enough to be a bit forceful, regardless of the perspectives.

       

    I think this needs further definition. When Christians force their beliefs on others through legislation or through social pressure, I think they are over the line. Personally, I have no issue with Christianity if Christians would keep to themselves. But I see proselytization as inherent to Christianity and there are many examples of the religion being forced upon others (and, historically, with much violence). In such cases, I do fault Christians. Here's a cartoon that looks at this from the perspective of someone outside Christianity:

     

    tumblr_lj9fqeEfry1qh1nx7o1_500.gif

    • Like 1
    • Haha 1
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