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About Thumbelina

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    Scared for the lemmings

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    Earth, for now :)
  • Interests
    I'm attracted to bothering atheist types atm.
  • More About Me
    Curious as to why anyone would want to leave Christ, He's not only Omniscient and loving etc. but pretty cool too :)

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  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Yeah, Jesus

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  1. Thumbelina

    Did you actually know God, before giving up?

    Re mwc's response. I would like to ask a question; if you guys were in God's place how would you explain to mortals, who have no frame of reference of creating things ex nihilo, how you created their world & its atmosphere? Would you use high sounding, incomprehensible language to them or will you meet them where they're at? Would you use metaphors & other figures of speech that they'll understand to describe your actions to them so they can understand certain aspects about you? ……….. God existing in nothingness? Pfffft! Never! Again I say, darkness was a new phenomenon that was created when God created our world. Creation week bespeaks a contingency plan because of God's foreknowledge of the DUMB CHOICES His creatures would eventually make. The bible speaks of God's contingency plan before this world & man even existed ( see 1 Peter 1:19-20; Matthew 25:34; Acts 2:23 etc.). God IS light therefore light is eternal as God Himself. Darkness is the absence of light so when God mysteriously cloaks Himself darkness is then created (Psalm 18:11). Created beings see darkness but there is no darkness in God because He is light (1 John 1:5; 1 Timothy 6:16; Daniel 2:22). Psalm 139:12 says, Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee. I once mentioned on this website that with the creator God there is no yin & yang coexisting infinitely. There was a time when there was good without evil & light without darkness (in one sense you are mistaken, Florduh) & it WILL happen again. There has been a detour in God's perfect plan for His creation but He will be back on course eventually (Revelation 22:5). He would achieve all of this without force. All of those who worship Him would have seen the futility of living in darkness & sin. He created literal darkness so intelligent creatures could know they can't see-physically & spiritually- without Him. When reading the bible one cannot be a mere surface reader. One has to dig into the Word to discover the precious gems beneath the surface. The reason why I keep saying that creation week suggests a contingency plan is because God made some separations & differentiations during the creation process & He demonstrated a progression in His creative acts. On day 1 the bible says God created light but to create a source of light distinct from Himself He had to create darkness (this is where you were quite right, Pops) so it could be compared & contrasted. I see His contingency plan that was being put in motion. He knew this planet would rebel & separate from Him & it seems that Satan's rebellion was already in motion at that juncture (more about that later) therefore, He created separate light sources apart from Himself. He also created time to put a check on sin & rebellion & to eventually eradicate them. He also wanted to show the watching universe His creatorship & His righteous principles compared to Satan's creaturely role & unrighteous principles. Each day began with darkness & ended up with light. As He continued creating it progressed from good to very good. Once God used negative language & said something was not good & that was for man to be alone. Another time He used negative language was when He told Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil or He will surely die. Actually, God said that before saying it was not good for man to be alone. God is a social being & He was showing that His creation should be social creatures too. About Satan already acting up BEFORE God even created this sphere of the universe; the book of Job (biblical scholars believe Moses wrote this book & it was possibly written BEFORE Genesis) describes some of earth's pre-history & some behind the scenes activities that stupid Satan was involved in after the fall. Job 38:6,7 says, …6On what were its foundations laid, or who set its core in place— 7while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Verse 7- which the KJV rightly translates- alludes to the fact that God had loyal angels cheering for Him while He was creating this world, its atmosphere & everything in it. People who dig deep into scripture, & who are not mere superficial readers, will see that God made a distinction regarding the angels. The text says the sons of God shouted for joy. God calls beings who are loyal to Him sons (look it up, that theme is throughout scripture; eg 1 John 3:1). Casual bible readers DO NOT cross reference texts to see the cohesiveness of the biblical narratives & they go off on tangents & say the bible is contradictory (2 Peter 2:16). One of the cross references for Job 38:7 is Job 1:6, which clearly shows Satan as God's adversary/enemy & the other beings as His friends/sons. The word Satan means adversary. Is an adversary a friend/son? Satan took Adam's place in that meeting. Adam was supposed to represent earth in that meeting had he not sinned & gave his dominion to Satan. The sons of God (can be a generic term; loyal females are considered sons ) will understand that God is LONGSUFFERING (see Exodus 34:6; Jonah 4:2), He bears long with sinners. They can deduce that the fall did not take long to occur after creation- the perfect, FERTILE & healthy pair didn't even have a baby yet when they got kicked out of the garden. Satan's badness had fully ripened by then; for why would he be talking to Eve & tempting her to be like him & his minions (to be as gods; see Genesis 3:5 KJV) if he was any bloody good? God is longsuffering so He would not have expelled Satan after only a short time of his narcissistic delusions of wanting to be like the Most High. Jesus said Satan is a murderer from the beginning & the father of lies. Was he not lying to Eve? Wasn't he an indirect murderer? We also can see that God truly is longsuffering because He did not kill/execute Satan yet, but He will. Satan will surely die. So lions, there was creation history before earth even came into being.
  2. Thanks for explaining. You saved me from Googling .
  3. Thumbelina

    Did you actually know God, before giving up?

    Actually God created darkness (Isaiah 45:7). Apparently darkness was new when God created our sphere in this universe ( I see it as part of God's contingency plan for when the fall occurred). Heavenly angels existed prior to the creation of our part of the universe & they witnessed the creation mentioned in the Genesis narrative (Job 38:7). There was creation prior to creation. The bible says so & it's not adding to the bible to say so. The heavens will be destroyed at the end of this earth, at the 2nd coming (2 Peter 3:10), & it won't be heaven where God dwells. There are different heavens mentioned in the bible.
  4. @LogicalFallacy … so you're an agnostic?
  5. Hey, certain atheistic types do that too; like quoting W K Clifford & Florduh .
  6. Yes, you should be allowed to vent. I wasn't addressing the OP, just L.B.'s post.
  7. What does people's hypocrisy have to do with God? The bible said that believers should have no guile, that whatever is not of faith is sin (in other words, doing good things with wrong motives is sin.).
  8. Thumbelina

    Hell no

    There's more I want to say but too tired now. I have to address the child rapist analogy but not now. The person who mentioned it had a good point too.
  9. Thumbelina

    Hell no

    Posted May 31 Pulling more crap out of thin air, I see. The pre-Law stories in the Bible do NOT show the people already having the Law orally. That simply is not how the story goes in the Bible, as anyone who reads it can see. Your dishonesty is mind-boggling. There you have it, folks: More mumbo jumbo from Thumby. Though her style is different from others, the act of going off on tangents instead of actually answering the questions is standard Christian apologetics. If the Christian worldview was true, then they would be able to give direct and sensible answers instead of doing silly dances like this to skirt the subjects. This is the dishonest garbage that we ex-christians have left behind. Sorry, Thumby, but what you're doing here is not demonstrating Christianity to be truth, but rather showing how ridiculous it is. Anyone with half a brain can see that you are failing miserably as a witness for your "God." **************************** When reading the bible one has to be a deep sea diver and not just a mere water skier-- figuratively speaking. You have to prayerfully and humbly study the texts and you'll discover their rich mean in. The Holy Spirit reaches people who are as meek as little children (one can't depend on preconceived ideas to understand scripture). Just because the bible doesn't say the law was not written down before Sinai, it does not mean the law didn't exist. I did say that the aim of the law is loving God, and loving one's neighbor as oneself. Prior to sin the law was basically stated in the affirmative; in Genesis it shows this when God gave Adam and Eve simple commands. First He stated His commands in the affirmative--- of every tree you can freely eat (ahem, freedom to choose) --- and then He stated His command in the negative without giving too much detail and putting ideas in their heads--- of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat ... or you will surely die (more choice). In Galatians 5:22-23 Paul lists the fruit of the Spirit and he wrote that against such-- positive attributes there is no law. In other words, the law is not against right doing. The law points out sin, if it is kept it won't condemn anybody (only Jesus can impart righteousness to sinners though). As created beings sinned and continued to do so, God then had to use some negative language to describe how to keep His law of liberty (James 1:25) and to state the penalties for breaking said law. After Adam and Eve sinned Jesus stepped in to offer GRACE, Jesus told the serpent/Satan, in Adam and Eve's presence, that He would put enmity between him & the woman & between his seed & her seed. After more than 1,000 years of sinning & rebellion Jesus basically reiterated in the last part of the 2nd commandment that there is enmity between Satan's seed & His seed. Satan's seed has God's disapproval & God's seed has His approval. The book of Job mentions God's seed (sons of God) & distinguishes them from Satan which means adversary (see Job 2:1). The sons of God & enmity theme is throughout the bible. Was Job there at Sinai? Even if the law was not stated verbatim like in Exodus 20, the principles have always been there. The law is eternal as God because it shows His holy nature/character. I said what I meant & meant what I said in my post. God had a holy line from the onset of sin, albeit, a minority. Things got really bad for a time so God had to destroy the earth & start over again with Noah & family. Before Sinai the people received the law orally, mainly by prophets : "God who at various times and in different ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets ... " Hebrews 1:1 Also see Numbers 12:6. The fathers passed down the law to their families. Some pre Sinai prophets or patriarchs were Enoch, Noah Abraham, Isaac & Jacob. The gospel is simple & yet the bible is so profound. In Luke 3:23-38 it traces a holy line all the way back to Adam; those people were WILLING to do God's will so He entrusted them with His oracles of truth/law. The law shows what God is like, it is there to be OBEYED so there'll be PEACE in God's universe. Unfortunately, some of the law had to be stated in the negative because a God of love HAS to execute justice. He can never immortalize evil & sin, therefore, the wages of sin is death. He has to get rid of the cancer of sin, & death/hell is the only way to do it. Btw. check out Exodus 16:28 and its CONTEXT; did they get to Sinai YET when God asked what He asked? Throughout the bible God had to basically say what is written in 1 John 2:7. God is EVER reiterating to hard-headed humans-- I know He does it to me. God never changed His covenant, Hebrews 8:8 says God found fault with the people-- always reneging on their promises & backsliding. They were dense & didn't understand that God was coming to die for them/us. When Jesus came it opened more eyes to the truth so the new covenant is that they/we would trust Him to help them/us overcome sin & not trust in themselves/ourselves & therefore, His law will be written on their/our hearts.
  10. Thumbelina

    Hell no

    Have you ever heard about the old covenant & why it failed?
  11. Thumbelina

    Hell no

    At least you don't sound like militant atheist here. Atheism does not offer hope ( live a SHORT life in a devolving, polluted planet) & it limits God (Hebrews 11:6). Believers invite God so they're confident of His care & promises. However, believers should never force or attempt to legislate their beliefs. ... & vice versa for atheists & others.
  12. Thumbelina

    Hell no

    If you add the faith factor then I can say, truer words have never been spoken (2 Timothy 3:15).
  13. Thumbelina

    Hell no

    I had to go back & trace the convo'. You sarcastically asked why I had to apologize for God's failure. I answered that I'm giving an apologetic. Edit: I did give an apology (a regretful acknowledgement of an offense) & an apology (apologetic). I was validating your feelings, man. The apologetic was to show that you have misunderstandings that caused disillusionment (?).
  14. Thumbelina

    Hell no

    There's a thread somewhere in the den that mentioned the simplicity of the Christian religion or some sort of such. It is simple. I said that God's laws always existed, Mr. Sinai was not where it started. Look, the people were in bondage to pagans for centuries & they lost sight of the law of God that was passed down from their fathers. Sinai was basically a reiteration of what they should have known. Satan sinned/lied from the beginning- he's the father of lies- could he have been accused of lying if God's law did not forbid being a false witness? Pharaoh ADMITTED that he sinned against God BEFORE the Israelites left Egypt; could he have sinned if there was no law that he broke? Jesus used the method of asking questions to reason with people; it's a good teaching tool. What should one do if one uses that method with biblical questions that are are posed but the asker won't answer the questions? Again, could God accuse anybody of any sin if there was no law that they broke? If there was no law against wearing neon yellow ribbons in public could a police officer arrest someone just for wearing said ribbons? To rightly understand the bible, precept must be compared to precept. In logic something cannot be true & false at the same time in the same context. Contextualization has been a major problem when trying to understand the bible for many unbelievers. I cannot force them to study it the way it says to (see Isaiah 28:10). However, what is in my power to do is pray that God can give enlightenment through His providence.