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asanerman

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About asanerman

  • Rank
    Skeptic

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  • Location
    USA
  • Interests
    Reading, Music, Etymology
  • More About Me
    A dried up old human being full of life!

Previous Fields

  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what?
    Only to be competent in my reasonings
  1. I call some people "conventional" - its just what they are - you could also say they are normal, with really they are not. These are people who tow society's line and are the same at 55 as they were at 17. Deva, Here's a quote from page 6 of Integral Spiritualty by Ken Wilber (2006) that illusidates that notion. EGOCENTRIC, ETHNOCENTRIC, AND WORLDCENTRIC To show what is involved with levels or stages, let’s use a very simple model possessing only 3 of them. If we look at moral development, for example, we find that an infant at birth has not vet been socialized into the culture’s ethics and conventions; this is called the preconventional stage. It is also called egocentric, in that the infant’s awareness is largely self-absorbed. But as the young child begins to learn its culture’s rules and norms, it grows into the conventional stage of morals. This stage is also called ethnocentric, in that it centers on the child’s particular group, tribe, clan, or nation, and it therefore tends to exclude those not of one’s group. But at the next major stage of moral development, the postconventional stage, the individual’s identity expands once again, this time to include a care and concern for all peoples, regardless of race, color, sex, or creed, which is why this stage is also called worldcentric. Thus, moral development tends to move from “me” (egocentric) to “us” (ethnocentric) to “all of us” (worldcentric)—a good example of the unfolding stages of consciousness. Another way to picture these 3 stages is as body, mind, and spirit. Those words all have many valid meanings, but when used specifically to refer to stages, they mean: Stage 1, which is dominated by my gross physical reality, is the “body” stage (using body in its pical meaning of physical body). Since you are identified merely with the separate bodily organism and its survival drives, this is also the “me” stage. Stage 2 is the “mind” stage, where identity expands from the isolated gross body and starts to share relationships with many others, based perhaps on shared values, mutual interests, common ideals, or shared dreams. Because I can use the mind to take the role of others—to put myself in their shoes and feel what it is like to be them—mv identity expands from “me” to “us” (the move from egocentric to ethnocentric). With stage 3, my identity expands once again, this time from an idengral tity with “us” to an identity with “all of us” (the move from ethnocento tric to worldcentric). Here I begin to understand that, in addition to the wonderful diversity of humans and cultures, there are also similarities and shared commonalities. Discovering the commonwealth of all beings is the move from ethnocentric to worldcentric, and is “spiritual” in the sense of things common to all sentient beings. That is one way to view the unfolding from body to mind to spirit, where each of them is considered as a stage, wave, or level of unfolding care and consciousness, moving from egocentric to ethnocentric to world- centric. ...all that is required is an understanding that by “stages”we progressive and pernanent milestones along the evolutionary path of your own unfolding. Whether we talk stages of conciusness, stages of energy, stages of culture, stages of self realization, stages of moral development, and so on, we are talking of these important and fundamental rungs in the unfolding of your higher, deeper, wider potentials. [An intregal view] can dramatically increase your likelihood of success, whether that success be measured in terms of personal transformation, social change, excellence in business, care for others, or simple satisfaction in life. Much of what passes as conventional thought is tantamount to childish or asolessents notions caught in adult brains.. Nice talking to you again Deva!
  2. Azaria, I'm providing excerpts I’ve put together from Paths Beyond Ego: The Transpersonal Vision, edited by Roger Walsh, M.D, Ph.D. and Frances Vaughan, Ph.D., that have been helpful in my inquiry of self-realization, integration and actualization. I do so with the intent of encouraging you that there are avenues of inquiry worthy of your attention that are not bogged down in metaphysics, illusion, supernatural groping, magical thinking, etc. All things change, including ideas about development. Contrary to long-held assumptions, psychological development can continue throughout the lifespan. Motives, emotions, morality, cognition, life tasks, and the sense of identity are all capable of growth in adulthood. It is increasingly clear that conventional adulthood does not represent full psychological maturity. “Normality” is actually a form of arrested development. Abraham Maslow’s said, “What we call normality in psychology is really a psychopathology of the average, so undramatic and so widely spread that we don’t even notice it.” But if normality is a form of arrested development, then what arrests it? Retarding forces seem to operate within both individuals and society. Growth involves movement into the unknown and often requires surrendering familiar ways of being. Consequently, we tend to fear growth. The tragic result, as both psychologists and philosophers have recognized, is that we actually deny and defend against our greatness and potential. These metadefenses, as we might call them, have been described in many ways. The humanistic psychiatrist Erich Fromm viewed them as “mechanisms of escape,” while Maslow called their net effect “the Jonah complex.” after the biblical prophet Jonah who tried to escape his divine mission. The existential philosopher Kierkegaard described how we seek “tranquilization by the trivial,” while others speak of the “repression of the sublime.” The crucial point is that our transpersonal potentials do not remain undeveloped merely by accident; rather we actively defend against them. We stand midway between on our developmental and evolutionary trajectory to full human potential. (Plotinus) If we harbor undreamed-of possibilities, if normality is actually frozen development and if much of our individual, social and global distress reflects this frustrated development, the next question is how do we overcome these blocks and foster individual and thus collective maturation? Examples of advanced human development include Abraham Maslow’s metamotives, Lawrence Kohlberg’s postconventional moral thinking, and Ken Wilber’s postformal operational cognition. In addition, the world’s religious traditions offer maps of contemplative development. Another means of fostering development maturation through (trans) personal experience (i.e. experiences in which the sense of identity or self extends beyond individual or personal (persona) to encompass wider aspects of humankind, life, cosmos) is by seeking out what Abraham Maslow called a eupsychian environment, namely a sharing environment optimal for psychological development. Socially that means sharing the company of people who value transpersonal growth, who undertake practices to foster it and who provide an atmosphere of interpersonal safety that allows for defenselessness and experimentation. Having said that, one must be consciously aware that a full spectrum theory of development also has implications for understanding and treating psychopathology. Development can falter and pathology can result at any level of development. Diagnosis and treatment must therefore take this developmental fact of life into account. For example, there has been considerable confusion over the relative effects and merits of psychotherapy and meditation. Some have proposed meditation as a psychological and spiritual panacea. Meditation may however, be most effective for transpersonal levels of growth and less effective for people fixated at earlier stages of development. This makes sense when we remember that contemplative practices have traditionally been employed specifically as catalysts for transpersonal development. Indeed, a transpersonal developmental perspective allows us to recognize that the contemplative core of many religions offers road maps and techniques for inducing transpersonal growth. While it is sometimes said that diverse practices and traditions are just different roads up the same mountain, it is increasingly clear that various traditions, and groups within traditions, may aim for different developmental levels. Thus there are not only different types, but also different levels, of transpersonal experiences across traditions and/or disciplines. That is to say, that sensation, reason, contemplation disclose their own truths in their own fields of "reality" (realms). This poses a great problem for both religious and spiritual traditions and their clams of “insights into ultimate reality" where these trans-verbal (beyond words or speech) invariable get mixed up rational truth and empirical facts. And because (for example) revelation was confused with logic and with empirical fact and all three were presented as one truth, then two things happened: the philosophers came in and destroyed the empirical side…From that point on, spirituality in the West was dismantled and only philosophy and science remained. (Wilber) Hopefully this does further confuse things for you or cause you more anxiety!
  3. "Hello darkness my old friend"

    1. Show previous comments  9 more
    2. asanerman

      asanerman

      florduh caused this tune to stick in my head:

       

      “Hello friends (walls), how'd things go for you today?

       

      Don't you miss her…?

       

      I'll bet you dread to spend another lonely night with me

       

      But lonely walls, I'll keep you company.”

       

    3. asanerman

      asanerman

      Here's Willy before pig tails.

      BTY I'm no country Music fan!

  4. If a problem is fixable, there is no need to worry. If it's not fixable, then there is no benefit in worrying whatsoever. ~Unknown

    1. Show previous comments  7 more
    2. asanerman

      asanerman

      In any ultimate sense life cannot be fixed, it's a moving target, terminal in the end.

    3. Deva

      Deva

      Life is not fixable. First principal of the Dharma

    4. asanerman

      asanerman

      Yes, Deva. That is the hardest truth for me to "hear"

  5. My religion is to live and die without regret. - Milarepa

  6. In the throwness of it all, be Valentine and befriend your best self today. Love the one you're with 24/7. Out of that love, love your significant other.

    1. asanerman

      asanerman

      "If you can't love the one you want, love the one you're with."

    2. Akheia

      Akheia

      If you can't love yourself, how do you expect to love anybody else?

    3. asanerman
  7. The long and winding road is forever changing.

  8. Recovery starts the moment you realize that you're 'hooked'. That is to say, you become free whenever you become cognitively conscious that you've been living unconsciously. Now you and I know that it wasn't the voice of Jesus but the voice of living pseudo-self hiding behind a legendary figure. I think this quote from Nathaniel Branden illustrates the point: So intensely does a man feel the need of a positive view of himself, that he may evade, repress, distort his judgment, disintegrate his mind in order to avoid coming face to face with facts that would affect his self-appraisal adversely. A man who has chosen or accepted irrational standards by which to judge himself, can be driven all his life to pursue flagrantly self-destructive goals—in order to assure himself that he possesses a self-esteem which in fact he does not have. If and to the extent that men lack self-esteem, they feel driven to fake it, to create the illusion of self-esteem.— condemning themselves to chronic psychological fraud— moved by the desperate sense that to face the universe without self-esteem is to stand naked, disarmed, delivered destruction. Self-esteem has two interrelated aspects.: it entails a sense of personal efficacy and a sense of personal worth. It is the integrated sum of self-confidence and self-respect. It is the conviction that one is competent to live and worthy living. Man’s need of self-esteem is inherent in his nature. But he is not born with the knowledge of what will satisfy that need, iröf the standard by which self-esteem is to be gauged; he must discover it. ~from The Psychology of Self-Esteem p.110 Welcome to recovery batman! You are not alone.
  9. Prplfox, thanks for Deconversion Part 6!

  10. The temperature dipped below freezing last night! It’s actually getting down right cold in the boondocks!

    1. Show previous comments  5 more
    2. asanerman

      asanerman

      FL is full of Sun Goddesses!

    3. Margee

      Margee

      us too saner...brrrr

      time to go have a meet up with Deva, florduh and noobie again!!

      Bundle up my friend!

    4. asanerman

      asanerman

      A nice fire,hot coffee, warm blankets, with a wife of tremendous love, integrity and self respect! Who could ask for anything more, come rain or come shine!:)

  11. We come from oblivion. Do you remember that as being unpleasant? We go to oblivion. Why would that be different from the oblivion we come from? ~Doug Thomas

    1. Show previous comments  2 more
    2. Denyoz

      Denyoz

      Sweet Nothingness...

    3. TrueFreedom

      TrueFreedom

      Stardust to dust...

    4. asanerman

      asanerman

      Energy, neither created or destroyed!:)

  12. asanerman

    Finding Peace

    I'm grateful to you Antlerman for the 'window' your words provide for 'looking' into your 'interior'! Surely the continued mapping and conceptualization of our "interior spaces" will be one of the most important and fruitful areas of transpersonal research in the coming decades! Many thanks!
  13. asanerman

    Finding Peace

    "Only the unborn is deathless. Find what is it that never sleeps and never wakes, and whose pale reflection is our sense of 'I'."
  14. asanerman

    Finding Peace

    I wonder Antlerman. "Original Face," our own True Self--the face before the Big Bang. That interior trans-formative 'taste' that becomes 'structure'--Emptiness to Form, the un-manifest to manifest--Form to Emptiness. A transcendental and ascending, immanent and descending, prior non-dual Union--the pure face beyond the world?
  15. asanerman

    Moving On

    True living begins when one gets past the angst! Once the all the ranting has taken its course and one understands what authentically matters for themselves it's time to get on with the business of actualizing and integrating. There comes a time when the bitch'en has to stop and the conscious living has to start. Hopefully you'll stop in from time to time and share with us what makes your living worthwhile and how you make that happen. I for one am interested! My best to you Zephie!
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