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Everything posted by Margee

  1. Eugene39 - you are much better than me for sitting down 'face to face' with these people! I am so glad that it went o.k. for you today. You may feel a little lost for a while - I certainly did. My pastor and I had quite a few disagreements during the last year that I was there, and that is why I choose to write the letter. He loved and hated my ''feistiness!'' I know I gave the poor man things to think about. I wasn't trying to be arrogant - I just wanted answers and I got tired of them telling me that I this was a walk of faith and just had to have 'certainty' that god was there. Keep us posted on how you are doing! Good luck my friend!
  2. Thank you so much for the validation Galien! I really appreciate it. It is soooooo hurting for Christians to reject people like this. I did not deserve it. I was very active in this church,( I was the lead singer in their 'blues gospel band') and I gave a lot of money (that I did not have). I have a few Christian friends in my life (and clientele) right now, but these guys question 'things' as much as I did, so we are more open to have discussions. There is one Christian fundalmentalist lady that I absolutely adore (she is my old pastor's wife and I went to her church for a long, long time.) I left her church because it was quite a few miles from my home. They gave me their 'blessings' when I decided to go somewhere closer. If I told her who I really was - she would leave and I know this. I also am in the business of helping 'substance abusers' recover, and they think that the reason I don't go to church anymore is because they 'allow' this part of my life to be my 'ministry. I suppose they believe that I am 'promoting' Jesus with all of this. I don't say a word. because I just can't right now. I truly feel bad because of this. I will continue to read this forum and hopefully - I will become as strong as some of the other x-christians.
  3. Hi - yes, I met the pastor about 6 months later (at Starbucks) and he acknowedged the letter. He did tell me then, that he missed me very much at the church. I had many friends and they did not call me at all. They do not 'shun' me, nor I, when we meet in the grocery store, but it is very awkward. I had been to many churches in the past 30 years,but I felt very hurt by this particular one because I thought they were more open-minded.
  4. Good for you. I still don't have the courage to tell anyone how I really feel. Everyone knows that I 'disagree' with many things in the church and they think that's why I don't go anymore. I am still 'in the closet' and I admire you folks who have 'come out'. Maybe someday...... I can't wait to feel the true 'freedom' that you do!
  5. I am posting this letter to encourage a friend on our board. This is the last letter I wrote to our pastor when I decided to leave the chruch. It was the hardest letter I ever wrote in my life.It felt like I was 'divorcing' God. I lost every friend! Thought you would be interested in reading it. Dear Pastor ######## Jan 06/08 The first thing I would like to say is Happy New Year to you both! The second thing I would like to say is that you MUST not take this little letter personally because this is NOT about you dear folks—this is about me and my beliefs. One thing that I would like you both to know---I believe with everything that is within me, that Jesus knows my dilemma AND he knows my heart!! I feel that I do owe you a short explanation for my lack of attendance and dedication to the church. Basically, I have been living a lie (to myself and to the church). Please Pastor --I think you already suspect what my greatest problem is-- I have never really believed that the bible is the ‘true’ spoken word of God (you know that I have always leaned towards Charles Templeton’s rational thinking). I do believe that the bible is full of wisdom, guidance and many good stories of the people and how they made it through their struggles back in ancient days. I also believe that these same people were inspired to write of their experiences-- of who they thought the God of the heavens were because of some of the huge violent circumstances that they faced. Do I believe that it was Gods own voice speaking through them? No. (God supposedly spoke and told too many people to ‘slay’ innocent women, children etc. in the old testament for my liking) The God of the old testament, when read in context of the stories seemed to be very cruel. I’m sure there must have been times when you questioned this yourself? My goodness,God even ‘blinds’ his creation at times from knowing the truth, which means these dear people (that he himself created) will land up in Hell. Why would he do this? My goodness, Pastor ---to be honest with you, IF ONLY I could believe the way you all believe about the bible, it would have made things so much easier for me, but, the fact is–I don’t. I also understand that you will all think that the devil has got me ‘blinded’.But you see ---I don’t believe that there is a devil. I do believe that we as humans have the capability to make wrong choices (and God knows I have made a lot of poor choices in my life) and I have had to pay the consequences. I have tried sooooo hard to believe that you folks had the ‘full truth and nothin’ but the truth’---- but again, I don’t. I pray with everything in me that I have not committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit- but I may well have. In this case, I have understood throughout the years (according to this word of God) that there isn’t any forgiveness from God-- so part of me will always be a bit frightened. I have agonized with this for 30 years and I have certainly prayed over and over to God about this. I am actually willing to take a chance on hell at this point (but really, deep down I don’t believe in hell either) I do not expect you folks to understand this. Can I prophesize? Yes, I believe that I can-I am a highly intuitive person and I believe that I have a special ability to speak loving words of encouragement to people about Gods love. Can I speak in tongues? I have studied glossolalia and I know as a fact that every religion around the world (not just Christianity), AND new age people can ‘speak this unknown tongue’. (And I know you will say---so do the devils....)The language experts say it is a learned behaviour. I guess I’ll never really know, except the fact that I have learned to speak it quite fluently. Maybe highly gifted, intuitive people DO possess this ability. Do I believe in the law of ‘sowing and reaping’? You bet I do! When I have done wrong, I have faced the consequences and ANYTIME that I have been loving and kind, (including giving money) it has come back to me. The money part I find to be quite disappointing because I personally have worked very hard to make my money. I have re-financed my house 3 times in the last 5 years, took in ‘nasty’ borders etc… to hold on to it (And I DON’T make a large amount of money) But I realize that I am blessed to even have a house, and for that I am very grateful! If God shows me anything different in the next while –Your church is DEFINITELY where I would come back to, (IF you would allow me to) because it was the closest I ever came to being really happy in a 'grace filled' religion. It is religion to me, regardless of what anyone tries to promote. The churches are all still legalistic and preach “works’ to some degree to get the ‘blessings’ of the Lord. You see Pastor–to me, there is NO free will in this bible—you either believe the whole thing OR you go to the burning fires of hell for eternity. That is NOT the God that I believe created the universe and it is certainly not the God that I personally serve. Again, I question myself-If I don’t believe in the burning fires of hell, then do I even believe in heaven? I really don’t know what happens when we die. I pray that the Creator will finanally reveal ‘himself’ and show us why we were born and tell us the purpose of it all. You might ask –do I really believe in God? Your darn tootin’ I do!! (Still did in 2008) I have studied the laws of the universe for many years and the microscopic details of the human body and nature,to ever not believe in God!! Do I believe in sin---widely known ‘as missing the mark’? Yes, again, I have missed the mark many times in my life. Do I believe that we were born in sin because of Adam? No. I will probably lose my church friends over this because I know you are not supposed to stay connected with a non-believer---‘lest they pull you down with them’--- and this makes me very sad because I really do love you all. (And I am not a bad person) I am NOT going to another church. Literal bible doctrine is just not for me. (Please, don’t stop praying for me) MAYBE, just maybe, someday I will be a true believer in the bible the way you are. Do I believe in Jesus? Yes. I believe he was a rebel (much like me) and that he died trying to show the people back then in ancient times that the God of the Old Testament was a very cruel version of God. Do I believe that he was God in the flesh? I don’t know. Born of a virgin? No. But I do know one thing for sure- (just not sure why) he did die for ME, and that makes him the love of my life. I will end my little letter now. I love you two very much and I know that you are good people. When you meet me on the street-Please just give me a hug and do not let my belief system get in the way of our friendship. You may show this letter to the other 'leaders' or whoever you want (because I also consider them to be my dear friends) if you wish. It may help them to understand me a little better. I will miss many things at the church and this letter makes me very sad, but I have cried long enough(30years) over this. Jesus knows how I feel---I have been VERY honest with him in prayer. I have asked him over and over in the last 30 years to change me and make me a believer the way you are,but it just doesn’t seem to happen for me.I have also said the sinners prayer a billion times in my life (and I have been very sincere every time). Maybe I have never really been born again because of the 'doubting Thomas syndrome'? Thank you for some of the best memories and happy times. I REALLY tried. With every ounce of love in me –I wish you all the best. God continue to bless you both! P.S. the best sermons you ever preached (as far as I am concerned) were the ‘100% covered under grace messages.’ I believe that your new church will fill to the brim if you continue to give people this message of truth and love!! With my whole heart and soul, I thank you for listening. Sincerely, Margee P.S. I never got a responce or a phone call and I was VERY active in this chruch! I never heard from any of them again and I lost every friend in the chruch. Hope my letter helps! Margee
  6. I like this scripture: According to the Bible I am to believe that human kind is sinful for Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. Why are we being punished for the original sin? After all, they ate the forbidden fruit, we didn’t. Reason would lead one to say it’s their problem, not ours. Even the bible contradicts itself by claiming in Deuteronomy 24:16, “children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.” ??????????????? You know, I always wondered - If Adam and Eve were the only 2 that were in the garden (besides the talking snake) Who was the stenographer that stood outside the garden and took down the whole acccount???? :scratch:
  7. I very much agree with all of you on this matter. I would not 'trash' the 'softer' religions, where one is a good person and they just simply has faith in God - Not the fundalmentalist groups that are so damaging to the earthly experience. One of the things that I miss desperately is the belief in a protecting 'father' that will be there for you after death and answer all your questions about why there is so much suffering on the earth. I notice that all my friends still have this hope in 'seeing' god and all their dead relatives, and it helps them so much deal with being here on the earth. I miss having that faith. I refuse to take that hope away from anyone. It just wouldn't be fair. In a lot of ways - my life was easier when I was a real believer, and in many other ways - 'life and suffering' is easier to understand when one takes 'god' out of the eqation.
  8. I think almost everyone would like to have magical solutions to their problems. They would like to believe that they are immortal and will somehow survive after the body dies. They would like to have every question about existence answered. Those desires can become such an obsession that people will use any excuse to justify a suitable supernatural belief. ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ Florduh - i think you hit it on the nail! Every year on earth for as long as I remember - I have been waiting for the big prize; the 'blessing',' for trying so hard to serve this god and every year it's been one struggle after another. (same as most people) I thought they were 'tests'. I always tried to figure out how god would want me to me handle each new 'situation.' I thought these were 'tests' and if I made it - there would be a big, fat reward waiting for me - if not in this life - in the afterlife! Now - I just think - 'streaks of bad luck, some people are just luckier than others'. I'm just one of those girls who came from major childhood dysfunction - so when I gave my life to the 'lord' at 20 years old - I thought eventually I would hit the jackpot with serving this god. Don't get me wrong - I have had a lot of nice things in my life also. I just have to figure out how to get 'peace' with all of this........Thanks for your input - I really appreciate it. Sincerely, Margee
  9. Oh My 'God' Thank you all so much for your quick replys. you have given me something to think about today. I like the way you all describe death - just sleep......... but ..... what if were wrong?? I know that question is probably on this site somewhere. I will try to find it . Charles Templetons book tells it all - how he went to 'preach the gospel' in a very poor area where people were starving,etc.... and he stood under a barren tree and looked up and said to 'god' - - -''All you would have to do is send rain and this land could become prosperous again''. He starts to question god at this point. Then he starts to question the scriptures and he tears then apart one at a time. He answered so many questions for me. I hunted him down on the telephone and actually talked with him 3 times before he died. In the last conversation I had with him, he asked me to continuallly remind him who he was talking to because his 'mind' was going. I remember him saying to me - ''Why would a 'god' put this terrible affliction on a human being. He couldn't even remember his wifes name. I was so sad when I heard about his death. He told me that every time he heard 'Jesus name, tears would come to his eyes - but he would not change his mind about what he believed. He remained friends with Billy Graham until the day he died.They say he changed his mind on his death bed, so I called his wife and she told me that he didn't. It's one of the best books I ever read.The world was shocked when he 'stepped down' because his crusades were as large as Billy Graham. I have so many questions...........................I am so confused (and depressed).................. I haven't told anyone how I feel.........I want there to be a God out there somewhere so bad ......................I haven't stopped looking.................................. Thank you all again so much. Sincerely, Margee
  10. This is exactely how I feel right now - Maybe we can figure how to 'solve' this dilemma! Sincerely, Margee
  11. Thank you so much for this. Sincerely, Margee
  12. Hi! I've come to you for a little help. I was a 'Fundi' for 30 years.I took the bible literly. The more I studied, the more questions I had. I became known as the 'pastors worst nightmare'. I asked too many questions.They continued to tell me just to have faith. It's been 2 years since I've gone to chruch. Nobody knows how I feel - Not even my dear husband. How do you tell your friends and family that you don't believe anymore It's been a long time coming. It all started when I read Charles Templeton's book,''Farewell To God; My Reasons For Rejecting Christianity''.(he was Billy Grahams dearest friend) His book answered just about every question that I ever asked when I belonged to the church, but they could and would not answer. I even went as far as having 3 conversations with him before he died and he sent me his autographed book. I have bargained, begged, cried, screamed and 'prayed' for God to give me the 'sign' that 'he' exists and it has not happened. I have prayed to 'him' in agony I've said to 'him' - ''don't you see, you're ready to lose me, don't you care''? I have gone as far as leaving letters to 'him' under my pillow (to reveal himself to me in a dream) so 'he' could see how sincere I am! How's that for being crazy? Sincere is what I have been! And I'm darn angry now - lonely and bitter! I started to study websites like 'evil bible.com' and 'Why God won't heal amputees?' I have dabbled with the law of attraction, psychics,astrology, energy fields, and every new age 'thing' a person could try. If I ever even dreamt that I would be writing this letter - The girl who studied her bible for years - I would have told you that the devil had complete control of me! I tried and tried and tried to make sense of this for all these years. I have heard horror stories of 'suffering' even within our own community (let alone the whole world) and I always asked this God ; ''Why-Why-Why, can't you do something?? Can you not see what's happening down here?'' Can't you see how cruel nature can be? Don't you see what all these 'Holy Books' are doing to people down here? Can't you see the rapes, murders - the insanity of it all? How does one deal with the pain of no God? My search is almost over - but - what now? So I don't believe in God anymore....... What now? How does one deal with this at this older age? I've read that some of you are 'free'. I don't feel that way. No afterlife - no seeing my sister who died - no seeing mom or dad? No reward for trying to be so good all these years? How does one deal with this 'Dark Night of The Soul''? Any responses would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much. Sincerely, Margee
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