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Goodbye Jesus

A Sample Of My Works


Antlerman

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Heh AM,

 

I gave it a listen last week while working. I rarely listen to New Age stuff (or anything lately) but really enjoyed taking it out for a spin.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Mongo

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Heh AM,

 

I gave it a listen last week while working. I rarely listen to New Age stuff (or anything lately) but really enjoyed taking it out for a spin.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Mongo

Antlerman...I promise not to laugh this time. That would just be ruuuuude. :grin:

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Antlerman...I promise not to laugh this time. That would just be ruuuuude. :grin:

I suppose I shouldn't tell you about my music room where I light candles and incense while I listen to new age music on my Winnie-the-Pooh turntable? You might then realize that I am the incarnation of hypocrisy. :twitch:

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Antlerman...I promise not to laugh this time. That would just be ruuuuude. :grin:

I suppose I shouldn't tell you about my music room where I light candles and incense while I listen to new age music on my Winnie-the-Pooh turntable? You might then realize that I am the incarnation of hypocrisy. :twitch:

Awwwww....that wouldn't matter at all. :kiss:

 

So, there may be some truth to that old saying..."me thinks thou protests too much"? :wicked: (just teasing!)

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Cool! Very impressive Antlerman. I wouldn't call it new age .. A previous comment about film music is nearer the mark which is what it is meant to be .. ie music to describe or compliment a scene

 

2 questions - Do you play 88 instruments?

and are we to be left in the dark about the mystery of your name and how it relates to your music?I'll happily admit to being dense ..

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Cool! Very impressive Antlerman. I wouldn't call it new age .. A previous comment about film music is nearer the mark which is what it is meant to be .. ie music to describe or compliment a scene

 

2 questions - Do you play 88 instruments?

and are we to be left in the dark about the mystery of your name and how it relates to your music?I'll happily admit to being dense ..

Hi Ziggy. It's really nice to hear the reference to film score again! When I first started writing music that was the comment I used to hear all the time, and people said it really wasn't that much like new age, but "maybe in a way". I would say it's not either really, because the early new age music I enjoy is more of a minimalist style from musicians with a classical music background.

 

What I was doing then and in the works you heard are more following a pop style structurally, with stronger melody lines like what came from the late romantic period, I guess. I honestly don't know how to categorize it very well. I am self taught and never studied music formally, so I don't have much of a vocabulary to talk about it.

 

My partner however has a music degree and could more easily articulate more about it. She's actually somewhere on this site as a member who posts here, but I don't know who she is. We live together, but she won't tell me her username on the site. I know it's not Antlerwoman, but that would be great if it was! (You realize I'm trying to coax her out to reveal herself here? But I doubt it's going to work. She's much too smart for me :grin:).

 

No I don't play 88 instruments. I was trying to lay a bread crumb trail for NotBlinded to follow to unravel the mystery of my username, but despite her highly intelligent mind, she's just could follow it, so I gave up... :wicked: I play only 5 instruments. The 88 "instruments" I was referencing in my clues to NotBlinded were the 88 keys on a piano.

 

Thanks much for your compliment Ziggy (and Mongo too!). And NotBlinded.... I take back everything I said about me being a hypocrite! I'm still pure!! :bounce:

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My partner however has a music degree and could more easily articulate more about it. She's actually somewhere on this site as a member who posts here, but I don't know who she is. We live together, but she won't tell me her username on the site.

:grin: Man, no wonder your posts are so considered ... You are terrified you'll say the wrong thing to 'wrong' person!

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No I don't play 88 instruments. I was trying to lay a bread crumb trail for NotBlinded to follow to unravel the mystery of my username, but despite her highly intelligent mind, she's just could follow it, so I gave up... :wicked: I play only 5 instruments. The 88 "instruments" I was referencing in my clues to NotBlinded were the 88 keys on a piano.

 

Thanks much for your compliment Ziggy (and Mongo too!). And NotBlinded.... I take back everything I said about me being a hypocrite! I'm still pure!! :bounce:

Yes you are! Still pure that is... :grin:

 

I am clueless about music and instruments even though I played a flute for 5 years in school. I don't even know how many keys are on my flute much less a piano. And you know what? I still have no clue why you chose Antlerman. I had to give up you see because...well...I just don't get it! :HappyCry: Okay...so if the guy in front is checking to see how many points Bush has, and his head is, well, you know where it is, then I still don't get it. I've seen a few bucks in my time but not one of them had any points. I would have turned and ran away screaming if they did! Okay...so having a lot of points means that you are a larger buck right? :eek: A nice rack? Ohhh my! ;)

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  • 1 year later...
  • 1 month later...
Guest Zenobia

Antlerman... wow... you are good. Both on synth and as a pianist (Dawn and Autumn are both beautiful) ... I especially like Meadowland and Awakening. Mmmmmmmmmm, very nice. Is the percussion synth also or do you do live percussion? Your melodies are really nice to listen to and I love the way you give so much depth to them with that deep synth... and some of the "nature" sounds mixed in. Mmm. Your mixing is so professional and smooth. What kind of synth do you use. Do you mix using Pro Tools or Acid Pro?

 

I am a professional vocalist and I have worked with composers who were much less talented than you.... I hope you are making some money from what you do. You are really good. And I don't throw compliments around either.

 

I love this style of music, it is very similar to some of the music in a project I'm working on. I do a type of vocalization which I call "spirit-song." Pentecostals would call it "singing in tongues" but I prefer NOT to think of it that way. It is supralingual so that I am not "stuck" to any lyrics and can do a lot more vocal improvisation. Anyway it is similar to Vas or Lisa Gerard. I don't have my pieces up on a website, but if you would like me to email you an mp3, I would be interested to hear what you think of my music...

 

My project is to do a celebration of the ancient, forgotten pantheon of goddesses. Nature is very prevelant in this, in fact it is the core of my personal "theology" - if you can call it a theology. It's more a belief that nature is magical and divine all on its own. Anyway - I sing praises to nature and the ancient goddess with my music. The pantheon album begins with a tribute to the primieval world, Gaia... there is also a piece about Bastet/Sekhmet in which I am using my cat's purring as a percussive rythm. Hard to describe.

 

Edited to say my singing name is Zenobia - but I am not the Zenobia you will find if you google, different style of music entirely.

 

Edited again - PS - is the photo on your site from the Hoh Rain Forest in the pacific northwest? I grew up in Sequim washington and have been to the rain forest many times....

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Antlerman... wow... you are good. Both on synth and as a pianist (Dawn and Autumn are both beautiful) ... I especially like Meadowland and Awakening. Mmmmmmmmmm, very nice. Is the percussion synth also or do you do live percussion? Your melodies are really nice to listen to and I love the way you give so much depth to them with that deep synth... and some of the "nature" sounds mixed in. Mmm. Your mixing is so professional and smooth. What kind of synth do you use. Do you mix using Pro Tools or Acid Pro?

WOW! You just made my whole month! Such wonderful compliments. Thank you very much.

 

On that CD I used primarily a Korg M1, and a Korg O1W. Also some Roland gear in studio. It was mixed on a 128 channel German Peavey mixer in studio on DAT master. The most complex track was Autumn, which had 34 separate channels to deal with.

 

Meadowland is my personal favorite, and took a few years for me to finish, as I could never quite figure out the arc I wanted to achieve with it. Awakening was the fastest song every written by me, done in 3 hours. It was written to celebrate the birth of my best friend's firstborn child.

 

I am a professional vocalist and I have worked with composers who were much less talented than you.... I hope you are making some money from what you do. You are really good. And I don't throw compliments around either.

I'm working in technology. Couldn't quite deal with the business end of the music world. It's more for personal spiritual expression. Solo piano is my real deepest love. Haven't recording that professionally, but should some day before too much time passes. Whenever I perform publicly, it's always solo piano.

 

I love this style of music, it is very similar to some of the music in a project I'm working on. I do a type of vocalization which I call "spirit-song." Pentecostals would call it "singing in tongues" but I prefer NOT to think of it that way. It is supralingual so that I am not "stuck" to any lyrics and can do a lot more vocal improvisation. Anyway it is similar to Vas or Lisa Gerard.

My god! As I was reading this I was going to ask if you knew Lisa Gerard! And here you brought up her name!

 

I saw her in concert here last year at the Guthrie in Minneapolis. Sat 3 rows back from her on stage! Utterly fantastic. Totally spellbinding. A friend I went with commented afterwards, "Someone like her make you believe in the existence of the soul".

 

I purchased a signed copy of her double LP afterwards of The Silver Tree. On my pure analog system at home, it is truly a divine experience to listen to. Honestly takes you beyond.

 

That sort of artistic expression of formless forms is a true voice of the soul. Culture is so hung up on "accessible" music. There is so much they miss.

 

I don't have my pieces up on a website, but if you would like me to email you an mp3, I would be interested to hear what you think of my music...

Yes, I would like to hear that very much. PM me your email, and I'll respond with mine.

 

My project is to do a celebration of the ancient, forgotten pantheon of goddesses. Nature is very prevelant in this, in fact it is the core of my personal "theology" - if you can call it a theology. It's more a belief that nature is magical and divine all on its own. Anyway - I sing praises to nature and the ancient goddess with my music. The pantheon album begins with a tribute to the primieval world, Gaia... there is also a piece about Bastet/Sekhmet in which I am using my cat's purring as a percussive rythm. Hard to describe.

Sounds quite interesting. The symbols we choose to use, are only signs of something else, something that we're part of and part of us. It's the voice, not the words that is the music of life.

 

Edited again - PS - is the photo on your site from the Hoh Rain Forest in the pacific northwest? I grew up in Sequim washington and have been to the rain forest many times....

That interestingly is not my photograph, where as the actual CD is all my own photography. That's being hosted up on a friend of mine's web site (asprin99 in this thread) and it was a stock photo I chose that somewhat reflected the type of imagery I used on the CD. I do believe it's from the Pacific Northwest.

 

Thanks again for you comments. They're greatly appreciated.

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Good composition. Production quality is great.

 

But right now I'm practicing Rockabilly on my geetar. Listening to my music, by contrast, might want you make claw your ears off.

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Guest Zenobia
WOW! You just made my whole month! Such wonderful compliments. Thank you very much.

 

I'm glad - you deserve it!!

 

On that CD I used primarily a Korg M1, and a Korg O1W. Also some Roland gear in studio. It was mixed on a 128 channel German Peavey mixer in studio on DAT master. The most complex track was Autumn, which had 34 separate channels to deal with.

 

Wow, sounds like you have a very nice studio and some fine equipment. Mine is much more simple, just the Korg I30, simple mixer from digidesign, and I do have a really nice, studio quality mic. I use acid pro but I am trying to learn pro tools.

 

Meadowland is my personal favorite, and took a few years for me to finish, as I could never quite figure out the arc I wanted to achieve with it. Awakening was the fastest song every written by me, done in 3 hours. It was written to celebrate the birth of my best friend's firstborn child.

 

Three hours? Wow. Thats really good for a finished piece. I do a lot of improv, so I make stuff up as I go -but to "finish" it I would need to spend time going over it. Congrats on the friend's child. What wonderful inspiration for that song.

 

I'm working in technology. Couldn't quite deal with the business end of the music world. It's more for personal spiritual expression. Solo piano is my real deepest love. Haven't recording that professionally, but should some day before too much time passes. Whenever I perform publicly, it's always solo piano.

 

I envy you. I can play piano, but I am self taught, and I can't read music very well. My sister is an excellent accompanist and can play anything. I know what you mean about the music industry - I've been burned a few times. I really feel the music on a spiritual level and don't want to lose the pleasure I feel from it by turning it into a "job." I've sung professionally many times, in Europe, Russia and in the US. I paid for my summer in germany by singing for a group there. I didn't make a "lot" of money but it was enough to pay my board and food. In recent years I haven't done quite as much due to career, husband, etc. Most recently I did perform my spiritsong publically and i was amazed at the response I got. People really connect with it.

 

My god! As I was reading this I was going to ask if you knew Lisa Gerard! And here you brought up her name!

 

I saw her in concert here last year at the Guthrie in Minneapolis. Sat 3 rows back from her on stage! Utterly fantastic. Totally spellbinding. A friend I went with commented afterwards, "Someone like her make you believe in the existence of the soul".

 

I purchased a signed copy of her double LP afterwards of The Silver Tree. On my pure analog system at home, it is truly a divine experience to listen to. Honestly takes you beyond.

 

Oh! I would LOVE to see her in concert. You are very fortunate indeed. She has an amazing voice.

 

That sort of artistic expression of formless forms is a true voice of the soul. Culture is so hung up on "accessible" music. There is so much they miss.

 

I like how you put that... singing in spiritsong has allowed me to express myself much more fully than being tied to lyrics. And even without the words, people are profoundly moved by the music.

 

Yes, I would like to hear that very much. PM me your email, and I'll respond with mine.

 

OK! I will need to make an MP3 copy of the piece I am thinking of, right now its on CD.

 

Sounds quite interesting. The symbols we choose to use, are only signs of something else, something that we're part of and part of us. It's the voice, not the words that is the music of life.

 

I agree - people are very connected to symbols, whether they realize it or not. I think the ancients understood that the gods they created were symbols for something deeper, but oftentimes the followers got stuck on the "symbol" itself and didn't realize they were missing the deeper connection. I think that still happens today...

 

That interestingly is not my photograph, where as the actual CD is all my own photography. That's being hosted up on a friend of mine's web site (asprin99 in this thread) and it was a stock photo I chose that somewhat reflected the type of imagery I used on the CD. I do believe it's from the Pacific Northwest.

 

Thanks again for you comments. They're greatly appreciated.

 

I am 99.99% positive that is from the Hoh rainforest.. I recognize all the plants even the little "shamrocks" that grow in that area. If you ever travel to Washington state, you should really try to visit the rainforest. My husband and I went there for our honeymoon.. it is intoxicatingly beautiful and some of the trees are thousands of years old.

 

Thank you!! I really enjoyed your music. You have a serious talent.

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  • 1 month later...

Yeh Antler, Great job, very relaxing and beautiful meditative music. I enjoyed reading the description for each composition. Isn't there a name for that 'audiography' or something. Anyhow I liked Musical Visions, I like the opening melody that carried on throughout the piece. I enjoyed all the tracks though. Peter Sterling who plays harp, I believe his music is inspired by nature. The opening to Meadowland has the sounds of the nature and birds, and it reminded of one of his compositions that has a similar feel to it. I have some Native American flute meditative music also. If you like listening to other piano/keyboardist, I really like Keiko Matsui, her music is categorized as jazz, but sometimes I think it borders on a bit new agey, I often find her cds in the New age section.

 

Is your cd available for sale? If not, it ought be on the store shelves amongst the rest of them.

 

Just a wonderful job Antler, you are talented.

 

Peace

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Yeh Antler, Great job, very relaxing and beautiful meditative music. I enjoyed reading the description for each composition. Isn't there a name for that 'audiography' or something. Anyhow I liked Musical Visions, I like the opening melody that carried on throughout the piece. I enjoyed all the tracks though. Peter Sterling who plays harp, I believe his music is inspired by nature. The opening to Meadowland has the sounds of the nature and birds, and it reminded of one of his compositions that has a similar feel to it. I have some Native American flute meditative music also. If you like listening to other piano/keyboardist, I really like Keiko Matsui, her music is categorized as jazz, but sometimes I think it borders on a bit new agey, I often find her cds in the New age section.

 

Is your cd available for sale? If not, it ought be on the store shelves amongst the rest of them.

 

Just a wonderful job Antler, you are talented.

 

Peace

Thanks. Yes I know Keiko Matsui and have one of her CDs. I saw her at the Fine Line Music Cafe here a few years ago. "Jazz" is such an interesting marketing category these days, post 1980's. It's technically not Jazz that she plays, but more a pop style of instrumental music that they just market as Jazz (like Kenny G, Chuck Mangione, etc). That music has none of the scales or rhythms that defines Jazz music. It's that "smooth jazz" sound, which follows pop music rules, just with more instruments. But of all of them, I do like Keiko quite a bit. Can't say I care much for Kenny G and the rest. (My Jazz collection is Classical Jazz like Oscar Peterson, Dizzy Gillespie, Ella Fitzgerald, back to Big Band with Benny Goodman, Harry James, etc. - Kenny G is not jazz).

 

Actually New Age music in the mid to late 80's is what started morphing into that smooth jazz style of pop music. Prior to that, the earliest New Age musicians were classically trained and the style was much more of a Minimalist compositions, sort of like Phillip Glass was a minimalist. I have around 60 Windham Hill and other New Age LP's from the late 70's to mid 80's. My favorite artist would have to Andreas Vollenweider (sort of a world music sound), then early Nightnoise, William Ackerman, Alex DeGrassi, etc. I never cared for the stuff that started become that "smooth jazz" sound.

 

Yes I do have my CD for sale, but I should set myself up with a Pay Pal account so I can sell them online. I've never done much to sell them, other than just to people I talk with or when I go play somewhere.

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Guest Zenobia
Actually New Age music in the mid to late 80's is what started morphing into that smooth jazz style of pop music. Prior to that, the earliest New Age musicians were classically trained and the style was much more of a Minimalist compositions, sort of like Phillip Glass was a minimalist. I have around 60 Windham Hill and other New Age LP's from the late 70's to mid 80's. My favorite artist would have to Andreas Vollenweider (sort of a world music sound), then early Nightnoise, William Ackerman, Alex DeGrassi, etc. I never cared for the stuff that started become that "smooth jazz" sound.

 

I'm so with you on that, AM... I miss the really kewl new age music we used to have. Like Vangelis and Windham Hill... I don't care much for "smooth jazz" at all. It's like elevator music to me. No depth, no soul.

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Actually New Age music in the mid to late 80's is what started morphing into that smooth jazz style of pop music. Prior to that, the earliest New Age musicians were classically trained and the style was much more of a Minimalist compositions, sort of like Phillip Glass was a minimalist. I have around 60 Windham Hill and other New Age LP's from the late 70's to mid 80's. My favorite artist would have to Andreas Vollenweider (sort of a world music sound), then early Nightnoise, William Ackerman, Alex DeGrassi, etc. I never cared for the stuff that started become that "smooth jazz" sound.

 

I'm so with you on that, AM... I miss the really kewl new age music we used to have. Like Vangelis and Windham Hill... I don't care much for "smooth jazz" at all. It's like elevator music to me. No depth, no soul.

 

I'd like to share something I was just reading about the thoughts of the Philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer. I feel it really taps into the philosophy of life that I've been feeling to be true for quite some time now. (I'll highlight the bit it there that directly replies to your dislike of smooth jazz/pop music as I do, but the rest is well worth the consideration).

 

For Schopenhauer,
the aesthetic viewpoint is more objective than the scientific viewpoint precisely because it separates the intellect from the will in the form of art. The ability to view nature aesthetically is a telltale sign of a genius.
An important metaphysical distinction that Schopenhauer makes involves the notion of the will versus art. In a sense, Schopenhauer claimed that the body is an extension of the will, while art is a spontaneous act which cannot be linked to either the body or the intellect. The intellect allows man to suffer because it brings the suffering or pain of the world into a more vivid consciousness. Logically speaking then, the more intellectually-inclined person suffers most.

 

Aesthetic contemplation for Schopenhauer translates into an immediate objectification of the will. He employs a Platonic allegory to demonstrate that all existence is ultimately futile since it can be fundamentally characterized by a want of satisfaction that can never be attained. This want is otherwise known as happiness. Schopenhauer's metaphysics is said by many to be essentially marked by an all-encompassing pessimism. This pessimism serves as a stark contrast to Schopenhauer's Romantic contemporaries in 19th century Germany. His contemporaries, who include Hegel and Schelling, tended to employ a wide-ranging optimism concerning the seemingly progressive history of mankind.

 

Other notable ideas pertaining to Schopenhauer's metaphysics entail the notion of how art is conceived.
Schopenhauer argued that art was a spontaneous, pre-determined idea which the artist has in mind before even attempting to create.
Art, therefore, placed man above science and ultimately nature
since it effectively goes beyond the realm of sufficient reason.
Science, for Schopenhauer, shall be relegated to the boundaries of reason and, thus, the genius is precluded from entering its territory. Moreover, philosophy is not necessarily a pursuit of wisdom but, rather, it can be viewed as a means for interpreting the personal experiences of one's own life. Schopenhauer maintained that desire produces suffering and, thus, one ought to be wary of the torturous effects of hedonism.

 

Aesthetics

 

 

This wild and powerful drive to reproduce, however, caused suffering or pain in the world. For Schopenhauer, one way to escape the suffering inherent in a world of Will was through art.

 

Through art, Schopenhauer thought, the thinking subject could be jarred out of their limited, individual perspective to feel a sense of the universal directly—the "universal" in question, of course, was the will. The contest of personal desire with a world that was, by nature, inimical to its satisfaction is inevitably tragical; therefore, the highest place in art was given to tragedy.
Music was also given a special status in Schopenhauer's aesthetics as it did not rely upon the medium of representation to communicate a sense of the universal.

 

Schopenhauer believed the function of art to be a meditation on the unity of human nature, and an attempt to either demonstrate or directly communicate to the audience a certain existential angst for which most forms of entertainment—including bad art—only provided a distraction.
A wide range of authors (from Thomas Hardy to Woody Allen) and artists have been influenced by this system of aesthetics, and in the 20th century this area of Schopenhauer's work garnered more attention and praise than any other.

 

According to Daniel Albright (2004: p39, n34), "Schopenhauer thought that music was the only art that did not merely copy ideas, but actually embodied the will itself."

Pop music, or smooth jazz in our example is really more a form of entertainment, and thus philosophically speaking, existentially speaking only provides a distraction. It doesn't function as art does as Schopenhauer saw it (as well as I do), as "an attempt to either demonstrate or directly communicate to the audience a certain existential angst". That's what writing music is for me. It's to express something "transcendent". I've always know what writing music was for me as a "spiritual" expression. It's been a contemplation of mind for some time as to it's role of importance in the human experience that way (as opposed to the mere distraction of entertainment music).

 

I've been taking an extended break from creating compositions, and with all that's gone on in my personal exploration of life since then, I'm looking forward to seeing what will come out as I put my hands in front of the keyboards again. I have something new inside to express, I feel strongly. As Schopenhauer put it, "art was a spontaneous, pre-determined idea which the artist has in mind before even attempting to create." I know this to be true. It's why when I just chord a few notes, I feel a well spring of "thought" emerging, a vision of something that needs to be expressed, and it all becomes a matter of chipping away to let it out. That's what art is. It's an expression that by passes reason.

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. Don't anyone try to call Schopenhauer some New Age guru. He lived in the 1800's, was a contemporary of Hegel, and influenced such notable names as Friedrich Nietzsche and Sigmund Freud. In other words, he's no light-weight pop philosopher.

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Guest Zenobia

Interesting read, AM. I had to go through it a couple times. It's deep. I'm not sure I'd agree that smooth jazz is not an attempt to communicate... I think the artists who do smooth jazz are trying to communicate something, it's just on a different wavelength than I'm receptive to. Every genre and style of music communicates something, IMHO, even the baser "grunge" and "rap." I would agree there are higher and lower forms of communication though - and some artists reveal more of their soul in their music than others do.

 

Tchaikovskiy is one of my favorite classical composers - and he was a miserable, tortured man. But he poured out all of that suffering in his music and created some truly profound, genius works.

 

Does one need to suffer to create art? That's an interesting question. No doubt suffering constributes to the strength and depth of what the artist is trying to express. I'm not sure someone who lived a sheltered life, who never really suffered, would create with as much passion or depth.

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Interesting read, AM. I had to go through it a couple times. It's deep. I'm not sure I'd agree that smooth jazz is not an attempt to communicate... I think the artists who do smooth jazz are trying to communicate something, it's just on a different wavelength than I'm receptive to. Every genre and style of music communicates something, IMHO, even the baser "grunge" and "rap." I would agree there are higher and lower forms of communication though - and some artists reveal more of their soul in their music than others do.

 

Tchaikovskiy is one of my favorite classical composers - and he was a miserable, tortured man. But he poured out all of that suffering in his music and created some truly profound, genius works.

 

Does one need to suffer to create art? That's an interesting question. No doubt suffering constributes to the strength and depth of what the artist is trying to express. I'm not sure someone who lived a sheltered life, who never really suffered, would create with as much passion or depth.

As you know there is always this love/hate relationship between the artist and the marketer. Art, without the benefit of a patron, depends on the market, and the demand to make it "accessible". At that point it risks moving from an expression of an existential angst to the entertainment of the masses.

 

Now there is value as well in the more entertainment expression of music, as humanity needs recreation as well as introspection. I can enjoy the more pop style of music, when done as just that, and not some cheap exploitation of form for money (the prostitution of the pop star by the music machine). There are quite a few with the realm of pop that I enjoy, which is why I mentioned that I did like Keiko. But this falls in line with that philosophical distraction. Distraction isn't a negative, and has its place, but it's not the "spiritual" side of art, it's not as was expressed, "an attempt to either demonstrate or directly communicate to the audience a certain existential angst".

 

I think many artists struggle with this desire to express that inexplicable part of humanity in the form of art, and the machine that allows them to live by making it marketable. What Schopenhauer drove at was that those who could detach themselves from the Will, from desire, would escape this and find the purist expression of humanity in the arts. This gave rise to many artists within the Romantic period of music, Richard Wagner being one who followed his philosophy in his compositions.

 

Are all pop musicians strictly entertainers? No. But they often become part of that necessary evil of capitalism that art is not merely "art for art's sake" but to sell it to the masses. To do that, it has to be made "accessible".

 

I've just read some more on Schopenhauer's aesthetic philosophy that I have to share with you. I apologize if it seems a little dense, but the influence he had on the understanding we have of music today is huge. I'll highlight some salient points that stand out to me:

 

Schopenhauer believed that what gives arts such as literature and sculpture their value was the extent to which they incorporated pure perceptions.
But, being concerned with human forms (at least in Schopenhauer's day) and human emotions, these art forms were inferior to music, which being purely abstract, was to Schopenhauer's mind the highest and best form of human artistry.
Schopenhauer's philosophy of music was influential in the works of Richard Wagner. Wagner was an enthusiastic reader of Schopenhauer, and recommended the reading of Schopenhauer to his friends. His published works on music theory changed over time, and became more aligned with Schopenhauer's thought, over the course of his life.

 

Influence

 

In proposing that art could offer deliverance from the Will, Schopenhauer elevated art from mere artisanry or decoration, and held that art potentially offered temporary deliverance from the aimless strife of the Will in nature.
In effect, Schopenhauer turned art into a substitute religion by offering a doctrine of salvation through aesthetic experiences. Artists were not merely skilled hands; they were priests or prophets of this doctrine
. This teaching goes far to explain Schopenhauer's appeal to members of the creative communities over the second half of the nineteenth century. Schopenhauer's doctrine of aesthetics justified artistic work as a matter of highest importance in human society.

 

Schopenhauer's aesthetics remain influential today, and are perhaps the most lasting part of Schopenhauer's philosophy.
Their appeal to later generations of Romantics, and to all schools of bohemianism, is apparent
. Wagner sent Schopenhauer a note expressing deep gratitude for Schopenhauer's discussion of music. Schopenhauer's philosophy in general left a deep impression on a number of important writers, especially Thomas Hardy, Marcel Proust, Stephane Mallarmé, Thomas Mann, and Ivan Turgenev.

 

Schopenhauer's aesthetics were directly responsible for the rise of the Symbolists and their allied movements, and to the general development of the concept of art for art's sake. It deeply influenced the aesthetics of Friedrich Nietzsche, whose famous opposition of the Apollonian and the Dionysian is a translation of Schopenhauer's opposition of intellect against will in terms of Greek mythology. When the Marxist critique of capitalism was stirred into the aesthetic stew,
Schopenhauer's essentially ascetic view of the purpose of art laid the foundation for the opposition of kitsch versus the avant-garde
which is found in theorists such as Clement Greenberg.
Contemporary beliefs that artistic creation should not be swayed by financial gains or the demands of patrons or customers, and the belief that the greatest artists are those who create new and entirely unprecedented forms of expression, rather than those who develop already existing forms, all owe a great deal to the influence of Schopenhauer.

For myself in creating the music I have, I did utilize forms of Western popular music in creating what I had to. For one thing, I was largely self-taught musically and adopted the form as a vehicle to put my expressions into because it was something familiar to relate to. I have not discovered a means of expression that totally breaks free for this (not that I've been seeking that). I think this is why artists like Jackson Pollock resonate so deeply for me. Abstract Expressionism is part of this philosophy of expression freed from the form. Maybe someday what's in me will come out like that - not that the form should ever be sought for its sake alone.

 

Pain? Yes, I feel pain in one's life is what opens one up to their own "soul". It's a means to take their eyes off the world and into the meaning of life inside them. For the artist, their art becomes a vehicle of expressing that; it gets it out; it takes what's welled up inside and through that pain life emerges as in childbirth.

 

I guess what we're seeing is that most pop music, (smooth jazz in our example) can overtake or replace that expression of "art for art's sake" in the form. I always used to wince when someone would say about something I wrote, "It's pretty". I never understood why until now. Instinctively, I would take that as them not hearing what went into it. I would take that as them seeing it as a pretty ornament. But I did come to understand it as a compliment and them just likely not having the vocabulary to express what they felt/thought. But then there is plenty of music that's just that, "pretty". And that describes kitsch art.

 

Do I consider what I write to be "superior". No, hardly. But I do see it as an express struggle philosophically/spiritually. At least in most of it. Again, there is also value in music as entertainment. It also has a certain philosophical value in that humans having fun, or being distracting is part of being human. It has value, but I hardly see the music of ZZ Top ranking in the same class of expression as Tchaikovsky. It's music for a different purpose.

 

OK, so sorry for the heady stuff here, and I should consider this as a possible topic for discussion itself in another part of the forum. But it really goes into what this is for me, not just artistically, but into the whole of my life. Fascinating to understand as well how our understanding of music and art today has come to be viewed as it is. We are all products of culture, and the philosophers have shaped what that is.

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