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Shake Some Sense Into Me!


Guest Cliodhna
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Guest Cliodhna

I'm almost embarrassed to post this, but I figure some intelligent person out there will be able to rationally explain this in a way I probably haven't considered.

 

I haven't posted a testimonial, but basically, I was raised Southern Baptist, saved at 13. 'backslid" and dabbled with the occult for awhile in my teens. (Who didn't?) I found myself addicted to the Ouija board, I would consult it for everything. It told me how many children I would have, which would come first, who I would marry, who I would lose my virginity to, etc. It all came to pass as predicted, though now I strongly suspect that I manifested what I thought was meant to happen. Someone told me at that time that the Ouija was like picking up the direct line to hell, and so I repented and returned to the church (only this time Pentecostal..*shudders* where I was told that if I wasn't speaking in tongues or healing people I didn't have enough faith) until last year. It's been a difficult process, I feel I have been so conditioned by all this, and I freely admit I tend to be a bit naive (if you hadn't already guessed :) So, anyway, I started investigating different religions. Buddhism appeals to me, as does a little New Age. New Age is comfy because I can have my good ole' Jesus without all the ugly fire and brimstone. I thought I was completely secure in my newfound path, that all paths lead to God, etc. I read recently about contacting one's spirit guides by using a pendulum. I rushed out to the hippie store and came back with a shiny new crystal. I read that you could interrogate your subconsious by asking the pendulum a series of questions concerning your motivations. It also said to say a prayer of protection to ward away any negative entities. This puzzled me, because I no longer believed in any 'evil spirits', but I prayed anyway, and started asking questions. I anchored my arm on a desk so i could be sure I wasn't swinging it myself, and it would circle in wide rotations..wider than my palm for a 'yes' and side to side for 'no'. I asked the same questions repeatedly, and got conflicting answers. I asked, "Is this a negative entity?" "Yes" "Are you a demon?" "Yes'...I don't want to drag this out too long but basically the pendulum indicated through a series of questions that it was evil and was here to lead me astray. Please stop laughing and stay with me, here :) I know it sounds ridiculous! But the other night I stumbled upon a former psychic's site (Stacie Spielman, familiar to anyone?) and she had this horror story that was supposedly fact about how she had basically participated in the same things I had.. and how her house became possessed by demons, etc. Very elaborate story, 300+ pages..and she's Christian now so she says that if you've ever participated in this stuff demons stay with you until you cast them out in the name of Jesus. Initially I was almost in hysterics, until I spoke with a friend who said, "Would you please dance somewhere within the perimeter of reason? The mind is a powerful thing, you obviously still have some residual conditioning to break through in your subconsious, and it's surfacing; it's ok." Makes sense to me, and I calmed down. But then today, I was thinking about how when I was playing with the pendulum, at certain points I was holding it over a sheet of paper with numbers on it, and the stone actually pulled, I could feel it tugging like a fish on a line, in a straight line down toward a number I didn't know it was going to go to. So, the old nagging fears are back, "What if Christianity is true? What if I'm lost and going to hell?" etc.

 

How can that be explained? Any links or explanations would be appreciated!

 

Thanks in advance~

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The mind is very powerful... it can make you believe all sorts of weird things! I don't have any references for you but I am sure others on here will have some.

 

If I had gone through what you had, I would be creeped out too... but I don't think there's anything to all that stuff. It's just mind games and suboconscious crap.

 

Welcome to the site, and I hope you can tell us more about yourself! :)

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Welcome to the asylum :)

 

Well, no, I'm not laughing at you. Why should I? Unless you're here to tell me Jeezus™ is the only way and I should rather enjoy having my loved ones and ancestors burned if it means my personal salvation, I won't mock you at all :)

 

Of course, there are many ways to look at your experiences. The only wise thing to do is first take it all with a grain of salt. You may not have had genuine experiences at all, despite what you heard. The human brain of the average American is loaded with Xian tripe at a very young age, and we learn to filter and interpret all matters of spirituality with a Xian flavor, if you follow me. "Religion" comes to imply only "Xianity," "God" imples only the Xian god, "evil" implies the concepts of evil found in the Babble™, and so on. Your brain was wired to interpret the whole world through a Xian filter, and you may be, in some way, interpreting your experiences with the Ouija board in such a way. Your brain may be assigning things of a Xian flavor and nature to the experience, when the actual experience may not be anything at all.

 

Or there is another tack. I am an Odinist, and I believe that malevolent, noncorporeal life forms, do exist. In other words, what we'd call evil spirits. They are not nearly as powerful as the fanciful demons of Xianity, but they're disagreeable bastards under most circumstances. Nothing a good application of willpower can't fix, but that's beside the point. But, consider the possibility that you were hearing such petty, ill-natured spirits. I believe some people are "better" at dealing with such spiritual matters than others, like any talent. Perhaps you are keener to perceive such beings, and that is what you are hearing - disagreeable little shits who get their rocks off fucking with your head. If evil spirits really had any more power than that, we'd see real-world evidence of it. Not the actions they inspire in others, but actions they themselves perform. But since they can only offer negative influences, that is the limit of their influence. Perhaps that is what you are hearing.

 

And consider, to supplement this, that Jeezus™ is just another evil spirit. You know about Jeezus™, the inspiration for Xianity, the religion of blood, murder, death for unbelievers, and myriads of unnatural and harmful teachings. No good being or god could inspire such horrid trash as we've seen with the bulk of Xianity. One evil spirit may just be trying to get you to run back to the other one. Or perhaps the evil spirit that identifies as "Jeezus™" is playing the role of demon to fuck with your head and get you to crawl back to the slavecult - just because. To me, as far-fetched as it sounds, is infinitely more palatable than Jeezus™ the all-powerful and all-loving doing nothing but offering ultimatums and condemning innocent people to Hell™ for not tickling his fancy.

 

I think it's either explanation. There certainly isn't any Satan™ as per Xian mythology, nor even any Jeezus™ as per the same discredited tripe. Either you've got some malevolent noncorporeal lifeforms being assholes with you, or your brain is just interpreting a bunch of coincidences according to the Xian propaganda it's been fed all its life and that is making you think you're consorting with demons. Either way, all you really need to know is that there is no Hell™ for you to burn in and no Jeezus™ who is ready to send you there.

 

It's all either petty intangible beings or the side-effect of wholly man-made bullshit. Rest assured, you're quite safe :)

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Things don't have to be 100% good or evil, Cliodhna. Another possibility is that you contacted a trickster entity who decided to yank your chain and shake up your worldview a bit.

 

In my experience, trickster-archetypes cause you to grow by walking all over your preconceptions in their muddy boots.

 

Trust that you're strong enough to grow into your life experiences, and you'll be fine. Oh, and welcome to Ex-C!

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Put the pendulum down. ;)

 

Good.

 

Now back away from it slowly.

 

Excellent! :)

 

I was a kid when the movie "The Exorcist" came out. There was this big brouhaha about how if you watched that movie, you might become "obsessed" and then become possessed by a demon yourself. Being a good little Christian (and impressionable kid), I bought this hook, line, and sinker. I never had the guts to watch that movie (and I LOVE horror movies) until about 2 years ago. After finally seeing it, what do I think? Yes, it was a good movie, but IMO, I've seen scarier. And the demon/devil in that movie was a complete idiot. Why would a demon possess someone, only to make their (and its own) life miserable? If I was a demon, I'd possess someone quietly and then proceed to have a wonderful time (probably in Vegas) as a fully embodied human. I certainly wouldn't waste valuable time making a little girl throw up pea soup. But I digress. ;)

 

The human mind is a very powerful thing. We can unwittingly convince ourselves of untold horrors. You said you wanted links, so here's one to get you started: The Skeptic's Dictionary.

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Put the pendulum down. ;)

 

Good.

 

Now back away from it slowly.

 

Excellent! :)

 

 

 

The human mind is a very powerful thing. We can unwittingly convince ourselves of untold horrors. You said you wanted links, so here's one to get you started: The Skeptic's Dictionary.

Yeah...great idea Clio

 

and probably looking up weird internet addresses while you have PMT is not a great idea....(i'm half joking)

btw...I'm not exactly laughing at you.

It seems like you are your own 'worst' enemy. Its okay to learn to control your own thoughts - to keep that shit out of it.

Sheesh...penties! - had a close shave with that lot myself - speaking in tongues - now that's funny!

 

Good on you for posting! I love horror - always have but these days I know its fiction - makes sleeping around and getting up in the dark a whole lot more relaxing.

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The mind is very powerful... it can make you believe all sorts of weird things!

 

Not much to add to this.

 

The brain is a machine addicted to habits. If your habits have been christian in nature for a loooong time, it'll be quite some time until your brain throws out the remaining traces of it. I'd guess that's what's happening / has happened to you here.

 

Considering that I've personally taken part in a demonstration for pendulum shit being just your own imagination / subconscious expectations... ;)

 

Things don't have to be 100% good or evil, Cliodhna. Another possibility is that you contacted a trickster entity who decided to yank your chain and shake up your worldview a bit.

 

In my experience, trickster-archetypes cause you to grow by walking all over your preconceptions in their muddy boots.

 

Can you say Loooo-kiiiii? :wicked:

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Hi Cliodhna,

 

Christianity uses fear tactics to control and keep it's followers. If that's not a cult, I don't know what is. Someone or something, or possibly your mind (I'm not ruling anything out) is using your fear against you. We have all gone through being afraid we were lost and going to hell. It's normal to be afraid of that. I would suggest that you educate yourself out of your fear. Take a look around the forums, there is a lot of information including links and book suggestions. The more you learn, the more your fears will vanish.

 

Taph

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Guest Cliodhna

Thank you all so much for the thoughtful responses, and for the links.

 

And to Asimov--My apologies, I was a bit hysterical at the time. *blush* :)

 

I think I have convinced myself that this was just my subconscious filtering through old fears. I suppose what happened to the ex-psychic with the 'demons' was just a manifestation of her own fears.

 

I appreciate all your help, and look forward to participating more around here!

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Guest Obermeister

How can that be explained? Any links or explanations would be appreciated!

 

Thanks in advance~

 

I would strongly advise that you read The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan. Really, I think everyone should read that book, but for people that are strugging with superstition it's a must read. Good luck!

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Guest Mr. XC

So, the old nagging fears are back, "What if Christianity is true? What if I'm lost and going to hell?" etc.

 

How can that be explained? Any links or explanations would be appreciated!

 

Thanks in advance~

There are many things that could be said to address this, but here is the one that comes to my mind: Commonsense and your conscious tells you that burning people is wrong. If someone believes in God, they would say that their conscious tells them what is wrong. Since your conscious tells you that burning people is wrong, then you know that God knows it is wrong too. Therefor, God does not send people to hell if He had a conscious as good as ours. Plus, I find the idea of a jealous God quite silly.

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I think someone already gave you the Skeptics Dictionary. Check out the article on the ideomotor effect. It explains that "muscular movement can be initiated by the mind independently of volition or emotions. We may not be aware of it, but suggestions can be made to the mind by others or by observations. Those suggestions can influence the mind and affect motor behavior."

 

If you want to give the Ouija board a good test. Grab a friend, blindfold yourself, have your friend place the board in front of you either upside down or rightside up (without telling you which), and then have your friend record the "answers" that you get (ask something other than yes or no questions).

 

Also, think about what you think might be happening. Do you really believe that there are evil spirits floating around without a body? A being that has thoughts, but no brain? A being that is a resident of the pit of hell, but who has some kind of connection with some cardboard and plastic and wants to take a few seconds to tell you who you are going to marry and how many kids you will have?

 

Is that easier to believe or is it easier to believe the ideomotor effect?

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  • 6 years later...

I've been afraid of this too. I'm only 15 and I'm terrified of even meditation because of her. I feel like whatever I do I'm inviting demons. I have been trying to explain her experiences but I just can't.

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I've been afraid of this too. I'm only 15 and I'm terrified of even meditation because of her. I feel like whatever I do I'm inviting demons. I have been trying to explain her experiences but I just can't.

 

I use to be terrified of demons.  I use to fear that they could read my mind.  I use to worry that they had an unfair advantage on me and would trick me when I was vulnerable.  I was afraid to wander around my own home because of the demons.  It all went away when I became an atheist.  I'm not saying anybody else has to become atheist.  Just that my problem was caused by me believing in God and Jesus and the whole thing.  Now days I realize there is always a more likely explanation than spiritual beings.

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There. Ain't. No. Fucking. Demons.

 

 "Keep an open mind – but not so 
open that your brain falls out"

 

- Attributed to various authors

 

(and so true)

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Cliodhna: I'm not laughing at you at all. It sounds like your going through a rough time of it. All of that stuff is truly bullshit, as florduh said.  But to the extent that it is bothering you, it is real--to you. It your terminating any more fooling around with these crazy pass times permanently (which is my first advice), or if you can't quit fooling around with them for whatever reason, contact a good, non-christian and non religious psychologist. Check his or her reputation before you commit. But getting a good fit for you is indispensable. Someone whom you feel very comfortable with. There are a lot of worthless counselors out there, so you must be thorough in checking them out. Moreover, if they aren't helping after enough time has gone by to know, fire the first one and get another one.  I'm serous.  I believe that the majority of counselors are not worth your time or money. But a good one most certainly is. It is worth the time and money in finding the right one.

 

The reason I'm suggesting this is because your attraction to the pendulum and Ouija seems to me a little beyond normal. I'm no expert by any stretch. But if you continue to have difficulty with this type of thing, you will probably benefit from an expert. Good luck on this problem. bill

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Your friend nailed it right on the head in saying, "Would you please dance somewhere within the perimeter of reason?"

You need to get inside that perimeter and STAY there.

As to the experiences you've had, they are all mere suggestion or wish fulfillment, or whatever else you wish to call it. Mentalists make their living on such tricks. Look up Derren Brown to get some idea of just how freaky mentalists can be. They don't use any supernatural powers, and some of them even actively debunk the supernatural; but they do stuff that looks pretty supernatural.

Once you establish in your mind the firm and unshakable FACT that there is nothing outside of the natural, all this other stuff ceases to bother you.

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You know that trick where you push your fists together side by side and then it kinda feels like a magnetic force is keeping them there when you pull them apart? You can attach about as much cosmic significance to that as to whatever happens with a ouija board etc. Demons are unlikely to be real but the fear of them is and that's the more likely thing that's going to harm you if you let yourself obsess over it. Maybe take a step back from this kinda thing and indulge in a few other hobbies until you feel a bit calmer about the whole subject and then assess how you feel about it?

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