It's So Simple A Child Could Read It And Understand!

[white_raven23]

i will admit, there are plenty of verses a child can not understand, and the poetry of psalms i can't even understand. but i think that Jesus said we should have a child like faith. they believe what they are told when coming from an authoritative person. thus we should do the same, believe what we are told we coming from God (the total authority).

 

 

 

Umm. No.

 

See this is where I really have a problem. The only way we can have "child-like faith" is by suspending the use and growth by experience of that which makes us who we are. Our minds.

 

And unquestioning obedience to authority is only peachy for the authority. Such does and has put people in a position to be exploited and abused. What? God wouldn't do that?

 

The god depicted in the bible HAS done just that. Practically the entirety of the OT is of it's god doing just such tyrannical exploitation.

 

And the behavior of his offspring does not assure me that this domination mentality has gone away. According to that book, the god offspring, in a fit of pique cursed a tree for not having fruit. It wasn't the season for fruit, so the expectation of fruit was unrealistic. The punishing of the tree was irresponsible and unforgiving.

 

And your granting "total authority" over yourself and humanity to god is blatantly irresponsible and ignorant considering you believe in the schitzophrenic bi-polar psychotic depicted in the bible. God is good? Have you taken time to READ that thing? Don't even go here.

 

Power doesn't = goodness, righteousness, justice, mercy, compassion, or any of many qualities people choose to arbitrarily bestow upon biblegod, despite the noticable lack of evidence for such qualities in the tome they have to go by. And such a god granting mercy to few in one chapter while consigning millions to death in the next chapter is certainly not balanced.

 

If such a version of a supreme being existed.....our humanity and morality would demand our resistance of such a being. The American Revolution didn't happen because we as people were able to cheerfully respect or obey overbearing authority.

[Amanda]

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, and even when he is old, he will not depart from it

 

 

Translation

Proverbs 22:6 Brainwash a child in the way you wish him to be, and even when he is old, he will not depart from it

Taylork45, I'm curious to know if you might think that every parent, and even society does some amount of "brainwashing"? It does seem to me that each one hopefully has good intentions for the child. Perhaps the problem is nontolerance and firm belief they are the only right reality? Maybe we should inform the child and not endoctorinate them?

[OnceConvinced]

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, and even when he is old, he will not depart from it

 

 

Translation

Proverbs 22:6 Brainwash a child in the way you wish him to be, and even when he is old, he will not depart from it

 

Personally I don't like the term "Brainwash". That suggests a deliberate ploy to decieve your child. But Christian parents believe they are doing the right thing by teaching their kids Christianity and sending them to Sunday school and all that. They believe they must obey that verse and see it as being a successful parent if their child follows in their footsteps. Exchange the word "Brainwash" for "Indoctronate" Indoctronation would be a more appropriate word I think.

[KT45]

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, and even when he is old, he will not depart from it

 

 

Translation

Proverbs 22:6 Brainwash a child in the way you wish him to be, and even when he is old, he will not depart from it

Taylork45, I'm curious to know if you might think that every parent, and even society does some amount of "brainwashing"? It does seem to me that each one hopefully has good intentions for the child. Perhaps the problem is nontolerance and firm belief they are the only right reality? Maybe we should inform the child and not endoctorinate them?

I wouldn't say 'every parent'. Some parent encourage free thinking and only give advice when the child asks for it and demonstrate more through example. For other parents it's kind of hard tell if they are brainwashing a child or not. An example is not letting a boy play with the girl toys. Are they brainwashing the child? Is brainwashing always a bad thing or can it be positive? Like teaching a child they should always open doors for women? Is this brainwashing? It's kind of hard to determine what brainwashing is unless there is some kind of organization behind it influencing thoughts.

 

[Personally I don't like the term "Brainwash". That suggests a deliberate ploy to decieve your child. But Christian parents believe they are doing the right thing by teaching their kids Christianity and sending them to Sunday school and all that. They believe they must obey that verse and see it as being a successful parent if their child follows in their footsteps. Exchange the word "Brainwash" for "Indoctronate" Indoctronation would be a more appropriate word I think.

Is a brainwashed person who is enforcing his brainwashed ideas onto a child brainwashing the child?

[Ouroboros]

and yes 2 hours of veggie tales on a road trip will almost make you turn athiest, take the CD, curse violently while breaking it and throwing it out the window.

I know the feeling!

 

But I loved the one with the collected songs, and especially the one "We are the pirates, and we don't do anything..."

 

And the middle, "you look like capt'n crunch! you're making me hungry!"

 

Gotta give it to them though, they have humor.

[OnceConvinced]

Is a brainwashed person who is enforcing his brainwashed ideas onto a child brainwashing the child?

Good question

[freeday]

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, and even when he is old, he will not depart from it

 

 

Translation

Proverbs 22:6 Brainwash a child in the way you wish him to be, and even when he is old, he will not depart from it

 

Personally I don't like the term "Brainwash". That suggests a deliberate ploy to decieve your child. But Christian parents believe they are doing the right thing by teaching their kids Christianity and sending them to Sunday school and all that. They believe they must obey that verse and see it as being a successful parent if their child follows in their footsteps. Exchange the word "Brainwash" for "Indoctronate" Indoctronation would be a more appropriate word I think.

 

i preffer the "indoctronation" over brain washing. i thought about this thread when yesterday my 9 yr. nephew asked me a question about God. it would be the same if he would have asked me a political question, i would have stated my belief on that too. he can decide when he gets older if this is what he believes or not.

[KT45]

i preffer the "indoctronation" over brain washing. i thought about this thread when yesterday my 9 yr. nephew asked me a question about God. it would be the same if he would have asked me a political question, i would have stated my belief on that too.

Training your child to accept something as truth is much different then answering a question about your perception of truth.

 

he can decide when he gets older if this is what he believes or not.

You make it sound so simple. I went to sunday school as a child and the teacher had kids deciding their faith at the age of 5 and 7 with alter calls saying "don't you want to go to heaven". I got saved at the age of ten. It was never a case of choosing this religion when your older. My parents made me go to church and I finally got saved after the teacher taught about hellfire to children.

 

Anyway enough of me. Children that aren't very skeptical are usually going to believe anything they hear. Satan Clause, easter bunny, tooth fairy will all be easily accepted as truth to a child until they find out a vast majority of people don't accept it. Unless children are put in a position where they can learn for themselves and find truths for themselves then they may be stepping beyond simple indoctronation to brainwashing.

[KT45]

Oh and I might as well say what I think brainwashing is vs. indoctrination. These are my self percieved definitions and I don't mind changing them.

 

Indoctrination to me is informing someone about a certain belief with the goal of getting them to join

 

Brainwashing is the use of manipulative tactics aimed towards getting someone to accept a percieved truth. This can include music (very strong tool to induce feelings of either warmth, or hatred or anything you want the listener to feel), teaching when the mind is at a weaker state (like childhood or during depression), contanst sessions in order to reprogram participant (re-enforces ideals onto participant), and scare tactics (to keep people from wanting to leave when they join). You know the same stuff cults do

[freeday]

Oh and I might as well say what I think brainwashing is vs. indoctrination. These are my self percieved definitions and I don't mind changing them.

 

Indoctrination to me is informing someone about a certain belief with the goal of getting them to join

 

Brainwashing is the use of manipulative tactics aimed towards getting someone to accept a percieved truth. This can include music (very strong tool to induce feelings of either warmth, or hatred or anything you want the listener to feel), teaching when the mind is at a weaker state (like childhood or during depression), contanst sessions in order to reprogram participant (re-enforces ideals onto participant), and scare tactics (to keep people from wanting to leave when they join). You know the same stuff cults do

 

so just asking, when and how would it be appropraite to spread the gospel.

 

as far as you getting saved at 10, i have never been a fan of children making that descision that young, i didn't get saved untill i was 20. and i do hate the scare tactics that some people use, i honestly believe thier is much more to our religion than scaring someone into believing.

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

Oh and I might as well say what I think brainwashing is vs. indoctrination. These are my self percieved definitions and I don't mind changing them.

 

Indoctrination to me is informing someone about a certain belief with the goal of getting them to join

 

Brainwashing is the use of manipulative tactics aimed towards getting someone to accept a percieved truth. This can include music (very strong tool to induce feelings of either warmth, or hatred or anything you want the listener to feel), teaching when the mind is at a weaker state (like childhood or during depression), contanst sessions in order to reprogram participant (re-enforces ideals onto participant), and scare tactics (to keep people from wanting to leave when they join). You know the same stuff cults do

 

so just asking, when and how would it be appropraite to spread the gospel.

 

as far as you getting saved at 10, i have never been a fan of children making that descision that young, i didn't get saved untill i was 20. and i do hate the scare tactics that some people use, i honestly believe thier is much more to our religion than scaring someone into believing.

 

What could be more emotionally manipulative than the cross story? What person, absent their comission of a brutal homicide, should be made to bear the responsibility of the torture death of an ostensibly innocent godman who assumed room temperature nearly 2 millenia before they darted from betwixt their mother's thighs? The crux of the sordid romance you thrust upon non believers lies in the emotional connection to an imaginary death and the subsequently motivating guilt conjured up by that mythical yarn. If you disdain emotional manipulation as a christian, you've castrated yourself, and left the battle to the wits. The wits usually prefer something less ephemeral than the "articles of faith".

[freeday]

Oh and I might as well say what I think brainwashing is vs. indoctrination. These are my self percieved definitions and I don't mind changing them.

 

Indoctrination to me is informing someone about a certain belief with the goal of getting them to join

 

Brainwashing is the use of manipulative tactics aimed towards getting someone to accept a percieved truth. This can include music (very strong tool to induce feelings of either warmth, or hatred or anything you want the listener to feel), teaching when the mind is at a weaker state (like childhood or during depression), contanst sessions in order to reprogram participant (re-enforces ideals onto participant), and scare tactics (to keep people from wanting to leave when they join). You know the same stuff cults do

 

so just asking, when and how would it be appropraite to spread the gospel.

 

as far as you getting saved at 10, i have never been a fan of children making that descision that young, i didn't get saved untill i was 20. and i do hate the scare tactics that some people use, i honestly believe thier is much more to our religion than scaring someone into believing.

 

What could be more emotionally manipulative than the cross story? What person, absent their comission of a brutal homicide, should be made to bear the responsibility of the torture death of an ostensibly innocent godman who assumed room temperature nearly 2 millenia before they darted from betwixt their mother's thighs? The crux of the sordid romance you thrust upon non believers lies in the emotional connection to an imaginary death and the subsequently motivating guilt conjured up by that mythical yarn. If you disdain emotional manipulation as a christian, you've castrated yourself, and left the battle to the wits. The wits usually prefer something less ephemeral than the "articles of faith".

 

i don't thrust my faith on anyone, i have asked some people if they would like to hear it, but other than that, i have never tied anyone down and forced it upon them. christianity is not an emotional manipulation, rather a solution for the emotional pitfalls of our society.

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

Oh and I might as well say what I think brainwashing is vs. indoctrination. These are my self percieved definitions and I don't mind changing them.

 

Indoctrination to me is informing someone about a certain belief with the goal of getting them to join

 

Brainwashing is the use of manipulative tactics aimed towards getting someone to accept a percieved truth. This can include music (very strong tool to induce feelings of either warmth, or hatred or anything you want the listener to feel), teaching when the mind is at a weaker state (like childhood or during depression), contanst sessions in order to reprogram participant (re-enforces ideals onto participant), and scare tactics (to keep people from wanting to leave when they join). You know the same stuff cults do

 

so just asking, when and how would it be appropraite to spread the gospel.

 

as far as you getting saved at 10, i have never been a fan of children making that descision that young, i didn't get saved untill i was 20. and i do hate the scare tactics that some people use, i honestly believe thier is much more to our religion than scaring someone into believing.

 

What could be more emotionally manipulative than the cross story? What person, absent their comission of a brutal homicide, should be made to bear the responsibility of the torture death of an ostensibly innocent godman who assumed room temperature nearly 2 millenia before they darted from betwixt their mother's thighs? The crux of the sordid romance you thrust upon non believers lies in the emotional connection to an imaginary death and the subsequently motivating guilt conjured up by that mythical yarn. If you disdain emotional manipulation as a christian, you've castrated yourself, and left the battle to the wits. The wits usually prefer something less ephemeral than the "articles of faith".

 

i don't thrust my faith on anyone, i have asked some people if they would like to hear it, but other than that, i have never tied anyone down and forced it upon them. christianity is not an emotional manipulation, rather a solution for the emotional pitfalls of our society.

 

You come here and do your best to "tell it like it is". The sad thing is that most of us have seen it "like it is" exactly as you have, and have grown beyond that ignorant phase. You say you don't thrust your faith upon anyone, and perhaps compared to amy marie, you are the lesser offender, but you've still strutted around the enemy territory with more than the meekness of your savior. More like the arrogance of Paul. The very nature of your brand of ideology, the all or nothing gambit, screams at everyone who will hear that they are in error. How do you define your thrusting, christian?

[freeday]

 

 

You come here and do your best to "tell it like it is". The sad thing is that most of us have seen it "like it is" exactly as you have, and have grown beyond that ignorant phase. You say you don't thrust your faith upon anyone, and perhaps compared to amy marie, you are the lesser offender, but you've still strutted around the enemy territory with more than the meekness of your savior. More like the arrogance of Paul. The very nature of your brand of ideology, the all or nothing gambit, screams at everyone who will hear that they are in error. How do you define your thrusting, christian?

 

my attitude has changed drastically since i have joined, i ussually reffer to it as "my beliefs" vs "the truth". i do not condem anyone on here, i don't "tell it like it is", i just simply state my opinion. and i don't find myself arrogant.

[KT45]

so just asking, when and how would it be appropraite to spread the gospel.

When you spread it to someone who is rationally thinking and not a person who is emotionally unstable or a person who is a child who is willing to believe every word you tell them. A person running up to alter call who is balling his eyes out is not emotionally stable.

 

as far as you getting saved at 10, i have never been a fan of children making that descision that young, i didn't get saved untill i was 20. and i do hate the scare tactics that some people use, i honestly believe thier is much more to our religion than scaring someone into believing.

Yeah but people use scare tactics anyway. You say you didn't get saved until you were 20? Did you just go to sunday school as a kid but they didn't let the kids get saved until they felt they were mature?

 

On another note lets do this. Lets say I want to conduct an expirement. So I go out and adopt a child (age 5 or 6). Every sunday I take him to a islamic church (or mosaic or whatever they call it). Now lets say this church doesn't let the children make a life altering decision (join the religion) until they are old enough. So if I take this child to this church every sunday for 15 years what is he more likely to believe? If he becomes a muslim has he been brainwashed?

 

I used an adopted child for a reason and chose the islamic church for a reason. I choose the islamic church so you won't have to defend your religion in your response. I chose to use an adopted kid to expirement on rather than a parent taking his child to sunday school because this would get a response that would be a based on the responsiblity or emotional feeling of the parent which get to the heart of the matter.

[freeday]

so just asking, when and how would it be appropraite to spread the gospel.

When you spread it to someone who is rationally thinking and not a person who is emotionally unstable or a person who is a child who is willing to believe every word you tell them. A person running up to alter call who is balling his eyes out is not emotionally stable.

 

but isn't it normal for a parent to implant thier ideas and values to thier children. this includes everything from politics to throwing a baseball. i don't condem parents who teach thier kids to be tree huggers, or parents who teach thier kids far left democratic ideas. this is thier right as a parent. whether we like it or not.

 

as far as you getting saved at 10, i have never been a fan of children making that descision that young, i didn't get saved untill i was 20. and i do hate the scare tactics that some people use, i honestly believe thier is much more to our religion than scaring someone into believing.

Yeah but people use scare tactics anyway. You say you didn't get saved until you were 20? Did you just go to sunday school as a kid but they didn't let the kids get saved until they felt they were mature?

 

my parents never took me to church. i went occasionally with friends, but nothing to indoctrinate myself. it is a path i chose on my own free will.

 

On another note lets do this. Lets say I want to conduct an expirement. So I go out and adopt a child (age 5 or 6). Every sunday I take him to a islamic church (or mosaic or whatever they call it). Now lets say this church doesn't let the children make a life altering decision (join the religion) until they are old enough. So if I take this child to this church every sunday for 15 years what is he more likely to believe? If he becomes a muslim has he been brainwashed?

 

I used an adopted child for a reason and chose the islamic church for a reason. I choose the islamic church so you won't have to defend your religion in your response. I chose to use an adopted kid to expirement on rather than a parent taking his child to sunday school because this would get a response that would be a based on the responsiblity or emotional feeling of the parent which get to the heart of the matter.

 

you make a great point, although it doesn't apply to me, i fully understand it. if you grow up muslim, then you will believe you are right and others are wrong. or vice versa. me and omni could have more heated discussions than you could, because i would be quick to say that i feel muhammed (sp) was a false prophet. so i get your point. and i can't give you an answer. i would just give you the blanket statement to the extent of saying God will have a way of judging people fairly and justly.

 

but the questioin would remain, how many of these other religous beliefs can honestly say they have never heard of Jesus. so in a sense, you could say they have rejected it, just as i have rejected thier ideas.

[K9 Jake]

What up freeday? I think you brought up an interesting point in your last statement. 'How many of these other religious beliefs can honestly say they have never heard of Jesus'? Its funny I was thinking about a very similar question today. My question is that if you believe that Jesus to be the one and only savior, then when is "hearing" about Jesus and not believing enough to warrant damnation?

 

I guess what I am asking is, if someone grew up Muslim as presented earlier and of course heard about Jesus, just as I have heard about Allah, at what point has your "hearing" become sufficient. Is just hearing about him enough? Or do you have to recieve a full on assault of the gospels from an individual trying to convert you? Or could it be just after 5 minutes of a sermon on tv? I have heard of Allah, and Buddah and so forth. Now I have studied Buddhism (college elective) in my 'Daoist study of Chinese Philosophy' class, but I have never studied, I mean really delved into the Muslim faith. So by that line of thinking have I actually beared witness to the religion? And if not, is it considered my fault for not exploring it? Or is it the fault of the believer for not introducing me properly to the word?

 

Just something I was thinking about.

[OnceConvinced]

I've wondered the same thing. A real grey area and a disturbing one. Not only are people going to go to hell because they never hear the gospel. They're also going to go to hell because people didn't do a good enough job of preaching to them. In fact a christian could actually totally mess it up and cost that person their soul. Mmmmmmmm. I'd like to know what a merciful God would do in that situation.

[KT45]

but isn't it normal for a parent to implant thier ideas and values to thier children. this includes everything from politics to throwing a baseball. i don't condem parents who teach thier kids to be tree huggers, or parents who teach thier kids far left democratic ideas. this is thier right as a parent. whether we like it or not.

You asked me when was it okay to spread the gospel. I assumed that you meant spread it to the world not your family. I have no objection to a parent teaching his child. That is there right as parents. Since I was originally talking about brainwashing, yes I think that in this instance the parent are brainwashing there kids. For example, if a brainwashed parent brings his child into a cult (a real one where people drink poison and stuff) and teaches him about it and tells him to follow it, is the parent brainwashing the child?

 

but the questioin would remain, how many of these other religous beliefs can honestly say they have never heard of Jesus. so in a sense, you could say they have rejected it, just as i have rejected thier ideas.

I didn't know the question even came up Anyway to answer your question, looking back I remember not hearing much of other religions for a long time (exception were the nearest competiting religions like the mormons or JW. I remember living in korea and seeing buddha statues but never even hearing about the religion. I remember my parents discussing it but they were equally ignorant. They would ask questions like "why would you worship buddha, did he even die for there sins?" And that was it, that was my whole knowledge about the buddhist culture. I didn't even know who mohammed was until around 9/11. Sad I know. But I know now this is well known knowledge by christians in leadership roles. I'm pretty sure if I went to islam and said "I've never heard of this mohammad guy" they would look at me stunned. I believe it is very possible to have certian people who have never learned of Jesus especially if the head religious figures never talked about them. It's kind of hard to imagine when you live in america or europe but in places where their particular god head is top dog it is probable.

[freeday]

What up freeday? I think you brought up an interesting point in your last statement. 'How many of these other religious beliefs can honestly say they have never heard of Jesus'? Its funny I was thinking about a very similar question today. My question is that if you believe that Jesus to be the one and only savior, then when is "hearing" about Jesus and not believing enough to warrant damnation?

 

I guess what I am asking is, if someone grew up Muslim as presented earlier and of course heard about Jesus, just as I have heard about Allah, at what point has your "hearing" become sufficient. Is just hearing about him enough? Or do you have to recieve a full on assault of the gospels from an individual trying to convert you? Or could it be just after 5 minutes of a sermon on tv? I have heard of Allah, and Buddah and so forth. Now I have studied Buddhism (college elective) in my 'Daoist study of Chinese Philosophy' class, but I have never studied, I mean really delved into the Muslim faith. So by that line of thinking have I actually beared witness to the religion? And if not, is it considered my fault for not exploring it? Or is it the fault of the believer for not introducing me properly to the word?

 

Just something I was thinking about.

 

great point, i too have heard of muhamed, but i don't have the full understanding of him. but on the other hand, to my knowlege, he was just a prophet that taught about God. now if i told you that, wouldn't you be more interested in God than muhamed. wouldn't you do some research into what God is and what he wants. the same could be said about Jesus. if you have heard about him, it would be assumed that you heard what he was. if i told you he was the Son of God. wouldn't that envoke some interest for you to investigate it.

 

so i think our fault lies in our laziness or pacifisism. i would venture to say that 50% of the people at dixie baptist haven't even read the bible. i am guilty of it, i didn't read the bible until about 3 yrs ago. i would think this would negate the limited hearing of the Gospels, or any religion for that matter. if you truely believe that Jesus is the Son of God, then it should be your utmost proirity.

 

but the unanswered question will remain, if i am right, what will God do with people of other world religions? this is a true gray area.

[freeday]

You asked me when was it okay to spread the gospel. I assumed that you meant spread it to the world not your family. I have no objection to a parent teaching his child. That is there right as parents. Since I was originally talking about brainwashing, yes I think that in this instance the parent are brainwashing there kids. For example, if a brainwashed parent brings his child into a cult (a real one where people drink poison and stuff) and teaches him about it and tells him to follow it, is the parent brainwashing the child?

 

 

 

I didn't know the question even came up Anyway to answer your question, looking back I remember not hearing much of other religions for a long time (exception were the nearest competiting religions like the mormons or JW. I remember living in korea and seeing buddha statues but never even hearing about the religion. I remember my parents discussing it but they were equally ignorant. They would ask questions like "why would you worship buddha, did he even die for there sins?" And that was it, that was my whole knowledge about the buddhist culture. I didn't even know who mohammed was until around 9/11. Sad I know. But I know now this is well known knowledge by christians in leadership roles. I'm pretty sure if I went to islam and said "I've never heard of this mohammad guy" they would look at me stunned. I believe it is very possible to have certian people who have never learned of Jesus especially if the head religious figures never talked about them. It's kind of hard to imagine when you live in america or europe but in places where their particular god head is top dog it is probable.

 

i am sorry, i must have gotten mixed up. sometimes it is hard to convey the message you want to typing it. there is a reason i don't write novels.

 

this is a fine line i think we are talking about between brain washing and indoctrinating your kids. i personally would look at brainwashing to be considered causing harm, vs indoctrinating to be considered passing down your beliefs.

 

ex. brainwashing, teaching your kids to be racist, join cults that cause harm, stuff like that.

 

indoctrination would be teaching kids religion, wether it be muslim, christianity or buhdism. or teaching them political ideals. this stuff will not cuase any harm towards anyone.

 

i think you are right, i feel sure there are plenty of people who have never heard of Jesus, maybe this is a question we could as omni, maybe he could shed some light on how much people know of him over there. or K9jake could ask some of the koreans if they have ever heard of him, or how many christian churches are over there. i really don't know.

 

and yes, this thread got gone way off on a tangent, sorry.

[KT45]

this is a fine line i think we are talking about between brain washing and indoctrinating your kids. i personally would look at brainwashing to be considered causing harm, vs indoctrinating to be considered passing down your beliefs.

Back when I was a christian, they called a lot of stuff a cult and they said it would involve brainwashing. Can you give me a specific example of a group that would brainwash? Do you think the christians that handle snakes are being brainwashed since it can cause harm? Also many people here have been harmed psychologically by christianity (mostly fundemental), would that count as a group that brainwashed since they have been harmed? Thanks

[freeday]

this is a fine line i think we are talking about between brain washing and indoctrinating your kids. i personally would look at brainwashing to be considered causing harm, vs indoctrinating to be considered passing down your beliefs.

Back when I was a christian, they called a lot of stuff a cult and they said it would involve brainwashing. Can you give me a specific example of a group that would brainwash? Do you think the christians that handle snakes are being brainwashed since it can cause harm? Also many people here have been harmed psychologically by christianity (mostly fundemental), would that count as a group that brainwashed since they have been harmed? Thanks

 

you have to remember, i have a different perspective on christianity than most, yes i beleive in hell and eternal damnation, but i beleive in a God of love, not fear. with that said.

 

the group that handles the snakes, i saw a dateline on that, and several people had gotten bit by them. JW's for the most part are fear based which causes them to do good works, if they leave the family will shun them and not associate with them. these are what i would consider cults. not helpfull to the person.

 

as far as the psychological harm, i am sorry for anyone whom may have experienced this, i feel that christianity has much more to offer than fear of hell.

[KT45]

as far as the psychological harm, i am sorry for anyone whom may have experienced this, i feel that christianity has much more to offer than fear of hell.

Remember when you say christianity has much more offer, your talking about every denomination of christianity. I'm not sure if you feel every christian denomination is not a cult but I'd say many or cause more harm than good. I'm guessing that you haven't noticed any psychological harm caused in your particular church but of course some do. What are your views of churches that do cause psychological harm? Not just fear of hell, but sexual repression, sexism, churches that discourage learning (evolution etc), and those that focus on putting down people that don't live up to the bible. Do you feel they are operating in a cult like atmosphere?

[Amanda]

Remember when you say christianity has much more offer, your talking about every denomination of christianity. I'm not sure if you feel every christian denomination is not a cult but I'd say many or cause more harm than good. I'm guessing that you haven't noticed any psychological harm caused in your particular church but of course some do. What are your views of churches that do cause psychological harm? Not just fear of hell, but sexual repression, sexism, churches that discourage learning (evolution etc), and those that focus on putting down people that don't live up to the bible. Do you feel they are operating in a cult like atmosphere?

Taylork45, I think people recognize this more once they are out of it for awhile, than while they're in the midst of it. Don't you think so too?

 

Also, once the religion has you believing in a literal hell... they gotcha! If someone believes that literally... think of what their perceived consequences are to consider something they've been told will put them there. If they'd just think of how rediculous that concept of a literal hell alone is, even in the idea of an all loving God, and realizing it is not literally true... they'd be making a giant leap to freedom!

 

But, alas... most fundys will just say things like... "I've been good for nothing then."