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Email Response To My Anti-testimony


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I recently posted my anti-testimony and a christian sent me an email and I thought you guys would like it and my response.

 

Original Email :

 

Hey,

 

I just read your testimony/life story you posted on exchristian.net. I found it really inspiring probably in a much different way to what others might - I'm a devout Christian from Australia, and I guess for me it has shown me how human nature can ruin what the Bible's message is, and how important it is to present it in truth and also to be loving towards one another. For I know many people who have left their Christian faith for all the same reasons in which you (I think they are the top reasons generally for all).

 

Just one thing I wanted to mention: from what I have read, I honestly believe what you say you have been taught about the message of the Bible itself is not really what the Bible says, and I'd be more than willing to explain what and why and show you what I think you could possibly have wrong about the Christian faith and Gods nature. Please note I'm not trying to argue/flame you and cause havoc, rather just wanted to question what your actual beliefs of what Christianity is and what it is about and what the nature of God is revealed through his Word mainly because I think its important to know the truth as much as possible about both sides of every choice you make in life so that you can be sure they are right ones, particularly concerning belief systems.

 

Anyway, hope to hear from you.

 

 

My reply:

 

Hi, thank you for your email. However, while you

wish to convert me back to the faith (using

apologetics), there is one thing you might have to

research before you begin.

 

 

According to Hebrews 6:4-6 and 2nd Peter 2:20-22, I am

a person who the bible clearly says is not going to be

"saved" based upon leaving christianity after being a

hardcore believer. It uses the word "impossible" to

describe individuals like me who once tasted the

"Heavenly gifts" and then fall away. So, I would

suggest you study that first. But the problem is that

it wasn't other christians that "ruined" the bible's

message. It only takes a good reading to see the

bible ruins its own message.

 

 

You said: " I'm a devout Christian from Australia, and

I guess for me it has shown me how human nature can

ruin what the Bible's message is, and how important it

is to present it in truth and also to be loving

towards one another."

 

Reply - The assumption in christianity is that "Human

nature" is evil of itself (what they generalize as the

"flesh"). However, human nature is moral and ethical

until something is added to it (indoctrination of a

dogma). I consider what many christians (and yourself

from what you said) to be under the spousal abuse

syndrome scenario. In spite of the horrors and

atrocities of the bible and its biblegod have, instead

of blaming the abuser, those following the bible will

blame themselves or others for giving a "false"

concept of the bible (when in reality, the bible does

it all by itself). The other problem is you are

automatically assuming the bible is "true", but before

you expect any thinking person to simply accept the

bible as legitimate, you would have to overcome a few

novice problems. Also, you would have to somehow

prove that all other holy religious books are false

(since christianity teaches Jesus is the only way and

the bible is the only true book). But, on top of

that, you would have to use falsifiability regarding

christianity. In other words, what would it take to

convince you that christianity is false? What

evidence would you accept in order to verify

christianity false? If you cannot do that, then you

believe in christianity, not because it is true, but

because of emotionalism and/or indoctrination.

 

I am sure you are a loving person, but believe me, it

is not because of christianity. Christianity for the

last 1900 years or so has never shown to "love one

another" or "love your enemies". Actually, I am

surprised you are so loving in spite of being a

christian. That tells me that if you were a muslim or

hindu or atheist, you would still be a loving person.

 

 

You said: "For I know many people who have left their

Christian faith for all the same reasons in which you

(I think they are the top reasons generally for all).

"

 

Reply - I think you believe I left Christianity

because of being hurt or being taught "false" doctrine

from the bible. However, I left because I began to

think for myself and asked questions (which any normal

person should ask about a religion that tells them to

believe or burn). I started putting the puzzle

together. I joined christianity because of being

emotional, but left because I used my brain.

 

You may want to ask yourself, why would thinking

people who ask questions decide to leave Christianity

once they investigate it? Maybe they are on to

something that you have not discovered yet.

 

 

You said:"Just one thing I wanted to mention: from

what I have read, I honestly believe what you say you

have been taught about the message of the Bible itself

is not really what the Bible says, and I'd be more

than willing to explain what and why and show you what

I think you could possibly have wrong about the

Christian faith and Gods nature."

 

Reply - The assumption from you is someone "taught" me

something from the bible. The last years of my

Christianity were self-discovery about what the bible

said, not being taught by others. I taught myself and

studied the original languages. Well, I believed the

following major doctrines at certain points in my

Christianity - the virgin birth, trinity, soul sleep,

resurrection, rapture, 2nd coming, miracles, burning

in hell forever, election, free will, universalism,

etc. "God's nature" is so contradictory, nobody can

tell me honestly what "God" is or what "God" really

wants. That is because a self-contradiction will have

people on both sides of it all using scripture to

support their argument.

 

Christians (as yourself) declare the bible is

"misunderstood" by people. However, if the bible is

the smartest and most inspired book in the world, and

it is more intelligent than let's say a math or

science book, then it should have much less conflict

in it and those who read it than a book of math or

science. However, just the opposite is true. In a

science book, 2 people will not argue over the

contents of it. There will not be debates of

interpretation. Same goes for a math book. However,

when it comes to any religious book (but primarily the

bible), 2 people who say the exact opposite things

will both use the same text (the bible) and one will

use scripture to support one absolute "truth" while

the other uses other scripture to support the opposite

absolute "truth". In other words, by the fact that

almost no 2 christians agree 100% on what the bible

says and often debate 2 opposite views using the same

bible; just proves that it is self-contradictory.

Think about it, if the bible is "true", why is there

no universal understanding of such truth? To compare

this, just imagine 2 people reading a math book. One

concludes that 2+2=4 and another is sure that 2+2 = 5.

Now, the only reason that both people could not agree

what 2+2 is, is simple. Because the math book says

BOTH. In other words, one part of it says "2+2=4" and

another part says "2+2=5". The few conclusions one

can reach is that the author/s of this math book

either were not in agreement or one of them was

completely clueless. How much more, when you take the

hundreds of self-contradictory mistakes of the bible?

Why is it that math books have no internal

contradictions, but the bible has so many? Shouldn't

the opposite be true? The bible says "the wisdom of

the world is foolishness to God". Yet, what is more

foolish? Math or the bible?

 

As far as "God's nature", like I said, no one can

agree on what that is. When they can't explain the

"nature" of God after being asked certain questions,

they cop out and say "Well, we can't know the mind of

God" or give some lame excuse. For example, ask a

christian what is the nature of God. The average

answer I hear is "He is all knowing, all powerful,

everywhere at once, all loving, all merciful, all

just, etc". There is just one problem, the word "all"

in front of any word turns that word into an absolute

statement. Absolutes simply mean "no exceptions".

That means when you say "thou shalt not steal", there

are no "extenuating circumstances" which let people

get away with it. In other words, no matter what the

situation, stealing is forbidden. So, when you apply

that to attributes of the biblegod, there are also no

exceptions. But, by them giving such contradictory

absolute attributes of their god, they cancel such a

god out of existence.

 

An example is : All knowing and all powerful (I hear

this often). There is just one problem. Even the

bible says God is NOT all knowing nor all powerful.

Judges 1:19 says God is not all powerful. Hosea 8:4

says God is not all knowing. And there are others

also. But, let's assume the bible does say God is all

knowing and all powerful. It is still a

self-contradiction. If you are all knowing, then you

cannot be all powerful. If you are all knowing, you

know the future absolutely which means the future is

set in stone (cannot be changed). Yet, if it cannot

be changed, then God himself cannot change it either

(and therefore is limited in power).

 

Or, if God is all powerful, he cannot be all knowing.

That is because if you have the power to change the

future, then the future isn't set, and that means it

would be impossible to know the future. A person

changes something based upon finding out new

information which they don't agree with or like. This

would mean foresight is not part of them.

 

Another example is : All merciful and all just. There

is just one problem. Mercy is the absense of justice

and justice is the absense of mercy. When you make

each of those things absolutes, they cancel one

another out. If God is all merciful, that means he

gives mercy to EVERYONE equally without exception (so

it doesn't matter if they reject Jesus or not).

However, if God is all just, that means he gives only

justice to EVERYONE equally without exception (so, it

doesn't matter if they believe in Jesus or not, they

will still go to hell).

 

Add this to the different opinions about "God's"

attributes by several christians. They create the

biblegod in their own image. For example, you seem

like a moral and loving person. Therefore, the god

you create is one of the same characteristics. A

calvinist would create a god that fits their own

immoral behaviour (hates most humanity and loves few

if any). And both of you use the same bible to

support your views of God. The bible says God loves

the world (John 3:16) which supposedly includes

EVERYONE equally. Then if you go to Psalms 5:5 or

Revelation 2:20-23, you see a different picture of God

(he hates all workers of iniquity and will kill little

children because of what their mother does). So, a

person like you, might use John 3:16 and say those

other scriptures about God hating or killing are "out

of context" or "allegorical". Yet, when asking a

calvinist, they generally take the "hate" and "kill"

scriptures literally and then they say John 3:16 is

merely allegorical or only applies to the "elect".

So, 2 christians cannot even agree on what the bible

says, yet they both claim they can "explain" God to

people.

 

Many evangelical christians are expecting Jesus to

show up any day. They also expect him (and almost

look forward) to killing their political or spiritual

enemies (others who are not like them).

 

Let me just say this. If you are going to try to tell

me that God is loving, yet you believe in the doctrine

of hell or justify the atrocities committed by this

"loving" god in the bible, then you still have a long

way to go to know what "love" is. Notice, I am not

talking about what people taught me, I am referring to

the bible's own claims.

 

 

You said:"Please note I'm not trying to argue/flame

you and cause havoc, rather just wanted to question

what your actual beliefs of what Christianity is and

what it is about and what the nature of God is

revealed through his Word mainly because I think its

important to know the truth as much as possible about

both sides of every choice you make in life so that

you can be sure they are right ones, particularly

concerning belief systems. "

 

Reply - I have shown you that the bible gives

contradictory natures of the same god. The problem is

that you assume the bible is true without questioning

it being true. And since that is your primer, nothing

will convince you it isn't true until you convince

yourself. As far as "belief systems", this is where

Christianity specializes. In christianity, faith is

more important than works. In fact, beliefs matter to

God, not what you actually do. So, when one is shown

that Hitler was a Christian, the average response of

christians is "well Hitler wasn't a TRUE Christian".

Yet, they then say "We are saved by grace through

faith, not of works". In other words, if someone who

does something horrible is a Christian, they aren't a

"true" christian because of their actions (and not

their faith), yet they turn around and say faith is

what counts. They contradict their own claim that

faith saves you and makes you a "true" christian.

 

Only in Christianity can a murderer repent at the last

second and "go to heaven", yet a baby who isn't

baptized and dies burns in hell forever (not just in

catholicism, but also reformed churches).

 

My question to you is would you think it is foolish to

buy a used car without test driving it or taking it to

a mechanic to make sure it runs? Of course you would

be foolish to simply buy a car based on the word of

the man selling it. Yet, christians say their eternal

souls are far more important than a car. Then why

would they be foolish for buying a used car on the

word of a slick salesman, yet not foolish for buying

an unproven and non-evidentiary religion on the word

of a slick salesman? Many people believe

Christianity, not because it is true, but because the

salesmen of Christianity make a good presentation and

are convincing. Imagine, if a person can somehow

convince you the you have a disease (which you don't

have), then they can convince you to take the

"medicine" they give you for it. The point is they

wanted to sell you medicine that you didn't need.

They might even say "It is a free gift", but in

reality, it is merely a free sample. Once you get

your initial fix of christianity for free, you have to

keep buying it every week by paying tithes and

offerings. And the more you take this medicine which

does nothing, the more you are convinced it works (on

the word of the christian doctor on the pulpit).

 

My suggestion to you is if you REALLY want to prove

Christianity is true, you should find every skeptical

thing you can against christianity and respond to each

one in kind. If you can destroy the arguments of

skeptics using real evidence, then you would convince

me that Christianity could be true. But I don't know

of any christians who would ever dare find information

critical of christianity and then use it to disprove

it. In christianity, the worst sin of all is doubt.

Murder is forgiven, doubt is blasphemy against the

Holy Ghost.

 

Overall, the only evidence one has for christianity is

the same evidence that islam, hinduism, shamanism,

taoism, etc has. None at all. It is about faith.

And since faith is an unverifiable negative claim,

nobody can "disprove" it. Which means no matter what

you have faith in, it is all equally silly. There is

no real evidence Jesus Christ existed, let alone did

the amazing things claimed in the new testament.

 

There is no real evidence that the biblegod is

anything but the creation of a vivid imagination

during the Bronze Age. If you can provide me with

real evidence for God, the bible or Jesus christ, I

would be willing to look at it.

 

Anyway, I apologize for such a lengthy response, but

you asked me where I'm coming from and so I said it

the best way I know.

 

Have a good day,

Matthew F. Hocker

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Well...if nothing else, you just showed this person that your choice is a very well-informed choice. I can just picture this person reading that in awe and thinking...wow, they aren't dumb after all!

 

Good job!

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Aw... I'm jealous! I've never gotten an e-mail from a Christian. I must be beyond hope. ;)

 

Once, a Christian teenager did IM me, though.

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Wow, that was a long post. Sounds like you've really thought this one though. Try not to let them get you down. The one's who want to convert are the worse.

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You luck dog! My Christians have all stopped writing me.

 

Has this one replied to your reply?

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I can just picture this person reading that in awe and thinking...wow, they aren't dumb after all!

 

Actually, let's face it, fundie brat is much more likely to read that reply (if it really reads it, that is) with the one thought in its head "Why is this wrong? Need to find the reason why this is wrong!"... :banghead:

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Just so you know, the person has not written me back yet. I'll let you know.

That's the typical response when they run out of answers.

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Exactly. It means you've won. :pureevil:

 

Not that fundie brat will admit it of course. But yeah, you won.

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I recently posted my anti-testimony and a christian sent me an email and I thought you guys would like it and my response.

 

Original Email :

 

 

 

 

According to Hebrews 6:4-6 and 2nd Peter 2:20-22, I am

a person who the bible clearly says is not going to be

"saved" based upon leaving christianity after being a

hardcore believer. It uses the word "impossible" to

describe individuals like me who once tasted the

"Heavenly gifts" and then fall away. So, I would

suggest you study that first. But the problem is that

it wasn't other christians that "ruined" the bible's

message. It only takes a good reading to see the

bible ruins its own message.

 

it is not impossible, but improbable, as jesus stated, "When an evil[h] spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' 25When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first."

 

i think this is what they were reffering to. i think the bible says the only unforgiveable sin is blasphemy against the holy spirit.

 

 

 

I am sure you are a loving person, but believe me, it

is not because of christianity. Christianity for the

last 1900 years or so has never shown to "love one

another" or "love your enemies". Actually, I am

surprised you are so loving in spite of being a

christian. That tells me that if you were a muslim or

hindu or atheist, you would still be a loving person.

 

the churches were one of the biggest helpers during hurricane katrina. i think this constitutes love. plus we should not judge God because of human actions.

 

 

 

Reply - I think you believe I left Christianity

because of being hurt or being taught "false" doctrine

from the bible. However, I left because I began to

think for myself and asked questions (which any normal

person should ask about a religion that tells them to

believe or burn). I started putting the puzzle

together. I joined christianity because of being

emotional, but left because I used my brain.

 

nothing wrong with asking questions, i have asked many, yet i still believe.

 

 

Reply - The assumption from you is someone "taught" me

something from the bible. The last years of my

Christianity were self-discovery about what the bible

said, not being taught by others. I taught myself and

studied the original languages. Well, I believed the

following major doctrines at certain points in my

Christianity - the virgin birth, trinity, soul sleep,

resurrection, rapture, 2nd coming, miracles, burning

in hell forever, election, free will, universalism,

etc. "God's nature" is so contradictory, nobody can

tell me honestly what "God" is or what "God" really

wants. That is because a self-contradiction will have

people on both sides of it all using scripture to

support their argument.

 

God is the creator. greatest commandment, love God, love others.

 

Christians (as yourself) declare the bible is

"misunderstood" by people. However, if the bible is

the smartest and most inspired book in the world, and

it is more intelligent than let's say a math or

science book, then it should have much less conflict

in it and those who read it than a book of math or

science.

 

math is not subject to interpritation, theology is. i think the fundamentals are clearly defined.

 

 

 

An example is : All knowing and all powerful (I hear

this often). There is just one problem. Even the

bible says God is NOT all knowing nor all powerful.

Judges 1:19 says God is not all powerful.

 

i don't think enough information is given to make this determination, but i can see how you could interprit it this way.

 

Hosea 8:4

says God is not all knowing.

 

i didn't get this from the verse

 

But, let's assume the bible does say God is all

knowing and all powerful. It is still a

self-contradiction. If you are all knowing, then you

cannot be all powerful. If you are all knowing, you

know the future absolutely which means the future is

set in stone (cannot be changed). Yet, if it cannot

be changed, then God himself cannot change it either

(and therefore is limited in power).

 

Or, if God is all powerful, he cannot be all knowing.

That is because if you have the power to change the

future, then the future isn't set, and that means it

would be impossible to know the future. A person

changes something based upon finding out new

information which they don't agree with or like. This

would mean foresight is not part of them.

 

i have gotten to where i don't even argue this anymore. i don't think that humans can theorize and limit God's power. plus i didn't get the point of the above, mr. grinch has brought up other points that are more valid than this.

 

Another example is : All merciful and all just. There

is just one problem. Mercy is the absense of justice

and justice is the absense of mercy. When you make

each of those things absolutes, they cancel one

another out. If God is all merciful, that means he

gives mercy to EVERYONE equally without exception (so

it doesn't matter if they reject Jesus or not).

However, if God is all just, that means he gives only

justice to EVERYONE equally without exception (so, it

doesn't matter if they believe in Jesus or not, they

will still go to hell).

 

i searched the KJV, NKJV, NIV, and can not find the words all mercifull

 

Add this to the different opinions about "God's"

attributes by several christians. They create the

biblegod in their own image. For example, you seem

like a moral and loving person. Therefore, the god

you create is one of the same characteristics. A

calvinist would create a god that fits their own

immoral behaviour (hates most humanity and loves few

if any). And both of you use the same bible to

support your views of God. The bible says God loves

the world (John 3:16) which supposedly includes

EVERYONE equally. Then if you go to Psalms 5:5 or

Revelation 2:20-23, you see a different picture of God

(he hates all workers of iniquity and will kill little

children because of what their mother does). So, a

person like you, might use John 3:16 and say those

other scriptures about God hating or killing are "out

of context" or "allegorical". Yet, when asking a

calvinist, they generally take the "hate" and "kill"

scriptures literally and then they say John 3:16 is

merely allegorical or only applies to the "elect".

So, 2 christians cannot even agree on what the bible

says, yet they both claim they can "explain" God to

people.

 

as long as the major point is brought to the light, the petty stuff doesn't matter in my opinion.

 

 

Many evangelical christians are expecting Jesus to

show up any day. They also expect him (and almost

look forward) to killing their political or spiritual

enemies (others who are not like them).

 

anyone who claims to know the end of days is a fool.

 

 

 

 

Reply - I have shown you that the bible gives

contradictory natures of the same god. The problem is

that you assume the bible is true without questioning

it being true.

 

i don't assume the bible is true, there is no proof that it is true, but none that proves it is not true. i have faith it is the word of God.

 

.

 

My suggestion to you is if you REALLY want to prove

Christianity is true, you should find every skeptical

thing you can against christianity and respond to each

one in kind. If you can destroy the arguments of

skeptics using real evidence, then you would convince

me that Christianity could be true. But I don't know

of any christians who would ever dare find information

critical of christianity and then use it to disprove

it. In christianity, the worst sin of all is doubt.

Murder is forgiven, doubt is blasphemy against the

Holy Ghost.

 

doubt is not the worst sin, all sin is detestable to God, no matter what it is. i look everyday at skepticism of the bible. and still believe. i enjoy it, makes me think and dig for the answer.

 

There is no real evidence that the biblegod is

anything but the creation of a vivid imagination

during the Bronze Age. If you can provide me with

real evidence for God, the bible or Jesus christ, I

would be willing to look at it.

 

"Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees" you should read skepticism carefully, satan is at work to draw people away from him. many things people have said "this is why i converted" are not good reasons in my opinion.

 

 

Aw... I'm jealous! I've never gotten an e-mail from a Christian. I must be beyond hope. ;)

 

Once, a Christian teenager did IM me, though.

 

give me your email, i will send you weekly uplifting messages. :grin:

 

 

oh almost forgot, welcome to the site. nevermind me, i am just the crazy fundy that hangs around.

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it is not impossible, but improbable, as jesus stated, "When an evil[h] spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' 25When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first."

 

i think this is what they were reffering to. i think the bible says the only unforgiveable sin is blasphemy against the holy spirit.

Improbable? No, the Bible literally says "impossible."

 

Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV, emphasis mine) = "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

 

God is the creator. greatest commandment, love God, love others.

That's right, love everyone. Except for those who are gay, serve idols, serve another god other than your own (even your own family), those who are false prophets, who practice magic, etc... you put all of those people to death. But yeah, love everyone else. (See the Bible for more details...)

 

math is not subject to interpritation, theology is. i think the fundamentals are clearly defined.

Since when is absolute truth subject to interpretation? You do consider Christianity to be absolute truth, yes?

 

i have gotten to where i don't even argue this anymore. i don't think that humans can theorize and limit God's power. plus i didn't get the point of the above, mr. grinch has brought up other points that are more valid than this.

According to Christianity, there are no limits to neither God's power nor knowledge, and there are various arguments that exposes this as an impossibility (Can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it?). You saying we as humans cannot understand God's power is another way of covering up the apparent contradiction within God's character.

 

Another example is : All merciful and all just. There

is just one problem. Mercy is the absense of justice

and justice is the absense of mercy. When you make

each of those things absolutes, they cancel one

another out. If God is all merciful, that means he

gives mercy to EVERYONE equally without exception (so

it doesn't matter if they reject Jesus or not).

However, if God is all just, that means he gives only

justice to EVERYONE equally without exception (so, it

doesn't matter if they believe in Jesus or not, they

will still go to hell).

 

i searched the KJV, NKJV, NIV, and can not find the words all mercifull

Whoa... are you saying God isn't merciful?

 

:huh:

 

anyone who claims to know the end of days is a fool.

That's right!

 

Wait...

 

Doesn't God know the end of days?

 

btw... I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you're going to hell...

 

Matthew 5:22 = "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."

 

i don't assume the bible is true, there is no proof that it is true, but none that proves it is not true. i have faith it is the word of God.

Why overlook the burden of proof of the Bible, but not other religious texts like the Book of Mormon, or the Quaran?

 

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Good job on your reply, brad.

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Improbable? No, the Bible literally says "impossible."

 

Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV, emphasis mine) = "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

 

you didn't have to qoute it, i know what it says. but the option is still open for the person to repent. you know this.

 

That's right, love everyone. Except for those who are gay, serve idols, serve another god other than your own (even your own family), those who are false prophets, who practice magic, etc... you put all of those people to death. But yeah, love everyone else. (See the Bible for more details...)

 

i don't think the bible is racist, Jesus ate supper with tax collectors, those were very bad people in the days, well actually they still are. stupid IRS.

 

Since when is absolute truth subject to interpretation? You do consider Christianity to be absolute truth, yes?

 

of course, but as you can see, the verses are subject to interpritation. but the path to heaven is spelled out, so a child could understand how to get there.

 

 

Whoa... are you saying God isn't merciful?

 

:huh:

 

you know better than that, i was just pointing out something.

 

That's right!

 

Wait...

 

Doesn't God know the end of days?

 

btw... I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you're going to hell...

 

Matthew 5:22 = "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."

 

"How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye" Luke 6:42

 

i hope you know i am being funny here. :lmao: but you did leave yourself open for it.

 

Why overlook the burden of proof of the Bible, but not other religious texts like the Book of Mormon, or the Quaran?

 

i have done some research on them and personally do not agree with thier beliefs. just as you have done with christianity.

 

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Good job on your reply, brad.

 

i will agree with you on this, a lot of time and effort went into his reply.

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i don't assume the bible is true, there is no proof that it is true, but none that proves it is not true. i have faith it is the word of God.

 

 

Freeday, go back and reread what Brad said about falsifiability. Or maybe you do understand this point already- forgive me if I assume wrongly. If the Bible cannot be proved true or false, then we can't say we "know" about it. Your faith statement says something about you, that's all it does.

 

Actually, though, I think there is proof that the Bible is false. Many of the discussions on this site offer such proofs: contradictions; archeological evidence against it; scientific evidence against it.

 

The way to avoid the force of the counterexamples is:

1. deny they are important, assert that only some main point is important when details contradict. You have done this above.

2. abandon biblical inerrancy and hold to a bible that is either to be evaluated by reason and tradition (as the Episcopalians say) or allegorize it (I think Open_Minded and Amanda do forms of that).

 

 

satan is at work to draw people away from him.

 

 

Since you say there's no proof for or against the Bible, and the NT is our source for your description of Satan, by your logic your assertion above is not a proposition. It has no true-false value. It just expresses something about your feelings and imagination.

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math is not subject to interpritation, theology is. i think the fundamentals are clearly defined.

 

You mean that the fundamentals of conservative evangelical protestant christians are clearly defined. No one is argueing about that.

 

As far fundamentals of christianity being clearly defined, that is far from the truth . A very good example would be to compare the theology of catholics(the oldest and biggest) and protestant(the fastest growing), one can see apart from the trinity doctrine, there is not much agreement on any of the core issues, such as baptism, salvation, church authority, bible canon.(the list goes on)

 

satan is at work to draw people away from him.

Here is a challenge for you. Demonstrate from the Old Testament that Satan is a adversory of Yahweh. Otherwise we have to agree with the Jews, that the christian satan/devil is inspired by the pagan religion.

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