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Everyone Would Be Proud Of Me Here. I Think?


Abiyoyo
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Well ladies and gents,

 

I had a moment. A moment that I couldnt resist. Most here know that Im going through a divorce and my ex is throwing the Book at me. In a nutshell, she is throwing the Bible left and right, yet she doesnt even know whats in it.

 

Anyway, my moment came in a recent discussion with my Pastor after watching the Da Vinci code. I watched the movie, heard debates, disscusions, what churches were mumoring about and the direction in general amung them. Which to my surprise, is to take advantage of the movie for witnessing. :twitch:

 

Very strange. I was talking to my Pastor, kinda blindly, not attending the church in several months now, and knowing that the ex and family are still good little tithers. I was telling him in general how this and that happened and why, and to what extent things were being looked upon. I had no idea what my ex had discussed, assuming the worst.

 

In discussion, I really didnt emphasize much about me, and was more geared toward the movement and feelings I had about what i felt like God has been directing me. Jonah had been on my mind, as well as the Da Vinci code. I was shocked when I started hearing about the opportunity to witness to people, because of the freshness of the subject of religion.

 

My opinion about the Da Vinci code. Either people, "Christians", or whomever, better have a good solid foundation of faith and knowledge, or there life can be changed in the speed of a mouse click. I have seen it here with my own eyes.

 

So, my moment came when I had voiced how I felt about some things and where God was directing me. My Pastor looks at me and tells me that I dont need to worry about my testomony right now, that I just need to try to get right with God. :Doh:

 

 

Heres where everyone might possibily be proud of me. After much pondering and reflection of what my Pastor said, I spoke to my ex. She said, "Yeah, he talked to my parents and told them that I was only concerned about money". In which, I did speak of very breifly.

 

I emailed my Pastor and asked him a question. Havent got a return response yet.

 

I reminded him of what he said about how i need to consentrate on getting right with God, then asked him this; Do I need to get right with God or do I need to get right with the church?

 

:woohoo:

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sorry to hear about the problems, i don't think that the approach of the minister was the proper approach. how encouraging is that. i will say, if you are willing and the partner are willing, you can fix your mariage. if you would like some christian encouragement or advice, just PM me.

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Yoyo, I guess you're starting to see how complicated and intricate "doing right" is. I've seen many good and some bad people in Church, and seen many good and some bad people outside of Church. It all comes down to if a person is inclined to be good or not. Not if they claim to be Christian or not.

 

What's kind of funny in all this, is that if you would go to some other Church in your current process, there could be one that would take you in and agree on your questions and thoughts. This is also one of the problems with organized religion, there isn't one and only one truth, but each church and denomination is just a group of equal opinions.

 

Maybe it is time for you to find another denomination? One where you already are "right with God". :shrug:

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Yoyo, getting hit with the whole "getting right" thing is the worst. What does it really mean? I've gone through my share of marital problems over the last year and a half (on the very edge of divorce) but depending on who I talk to and how I phrase things "getting right" is a very fluid concept. I've come to realize that it more means "getting in step." So if they decide I'm the one with the "problem" then I need to "get in step" with everyone else. If my wife has the "problem" then she needs to "get in step" and everything will fix itself.

 

I guess in the church setting it would mean that you need to shut up and just start acting and being like everyone says you should (so act like the good husband and be the good husband and this will make you the good husband which will make you "right with god"...just pretend if you have to). As Han said, you could just switch to another church where they already think that you are "right with god" and the other people aren't. This would probably be easier. I'm sure you're confused because you already think you're "right with god" so how could someone say this to you. If you read some of what we say about hypocritical xians...well...now you know why we say it. When things are going well they're your best friends but when things fall apart they blame you even though you're trying your hardest. Even when you're praying and trying to be "right with god" they still say you're not sincere or whatnot. Whatever. I'm not telling you to deconvert. I'm telling you to stick to your principals. If you feel you are being "right with god" then you are. It's as simple as that. If they won't stand with you then you don't need them. Move on. There are plenty of churches in this world and they all would love a new member especially one who loves god as you seem to. But don't let your dedication to this church allow them to play these mind games on you. Screw that.

 

mwc

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Wow. I think your pastor was kind of insulting, actually. I mean it sounds like there was a bunch of difficult stuff you wanted to talk about, and he just dismissed it all with the judgmental statement about "getting right with Gawd™".

 

This is why I don't turn to Christians for advice: I expect to get a bunch of unhelpful judgmental dogmatic crap thrown at me, instead of anything sincere, honest, and useful. Every fucking pastor has an agenda, and that's to get you to warm his pews with your butt on Sunday mornings.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with your question about whether or not he wants you to get right with *god* or with the church. And my spider sense tells me that the answer is probably "the church". Or, perhaps more specifically, "the pastor". Which is a way of saying that he probably thinks that all of your questioning, the changes in your life, and so on, all of that isn't in line with who and what he thinks you should be as a Good Little Christian™.

 

That, at any rate, is what my rather cynical instincts are suggesting to me.

 

I'm a functional atheist, so I'm not convinced that there's really a god out there, and hence that it's possible to have a relationship with one. But I do think that when it boils down to it, your religious and spiritual leanings are up to you - not your pastor. They're about what you think, what you believe, how you feel you fit in with the universe (or don't), and so on. It isn't up to any pastor to tell you what you need to do. It's up to you.

 

Anyway. Sorry things are rough right now. I went through a divorce at one point too, and even though the legal process was straightforward, the whole rest of it just sucked. It ain't easy for anybody. (Heh, remind me to post about the very uncomfortable confrontation I had with the associate pastor and his wife, shortly after I filed the papers...) Hang in there and go where your spirit leads you. It'll all be okay somehow.

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Generally, when Christians tell you to "get right with God," they really mean that you should get right with them and only do things they would approve of. Such as not getting a divorce, not questioning religion, going to church every Sunday, etc.

 

Life isn't about getting other people's approval, it's about living.

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Generally, when Christians tell you to "get right with God," they really mean that you should get right with them and only do things they would approve of. Such as not getting a divorce, not questioning religion, going to church every Sunday, etc.

 

Life isn't about getting other people's approval, it's about living.

 

Exactly - it's all about doing things the sect would approve of. A Xian will say you're "not right with Gawd" even if everything you're doing makes you feel better. All hardcore Xians care about is adherence to their sect's interpretation of their god and ethics, not about what really works.

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sorry to hear about the problems, i don't think that the approach of the minister was the proper approach. how encouraging is that. i will say, if you are willing and the partner are willing, you can fix your mariage. if you would like some christian encouragement or advice, just PM me.

Freeday, as much as I do like you... I do have to say that sometimes even if both people are willing to try to make things work, they simply may not be suited for each other, and were they to stay together in the end neither is truly happy. Sometimes, as painful as divorce is, in the end people find what works best for them. Getting past personal pain is being happy that the other found what is right for them.

 

YoYo, it’s a tough time for you no doubt at all, but you sound like your sticking through it really well. I'm sure in the end you will grow more than you realized possible. In times like these you really find what is meaningful to you ultimately.

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I reminded him of what he said about how i need to consentrate on getting right with God, then asked him this; Do I need to get right with God or do I need to get right with the church?

 

:woohoo:

Fuck god, fuck the church, you need to get right with your wife, because she's the only one (besides you) who will get hurt in this situation, and the only one who gives a damn about it. I'm going to put aside what I think of you for a minute or two and treat you like a human being. Do you really think god wants you to sacrifice your marriage for him? That's totally counter to scripture. There's a reason 1 corinthians says this:

I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided.

 

It's your obligation to take care of your wife AND serve the lord. You've completely lost sight of one, and actually hold your wife in contempt for not being a good enough christian. That's your fault, and you need to work it out. From a christian perspective, if you let your marriage end for any reason other than unfaithfulness, you fail at serving god and your piousness and self righteousness is all for naught.

 

Now I'm going to go back to what I really think of you. I'm not proud of you in any way shape or form, because you're destroying your family and livelihood because you think you've got some super special line to god and think that everyone else is wrong. Everyone is wrong, including you. You're no different from them, you believe in crap and it's destroying your life and the lives of those around you.

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I think having a pastor involved with your divorce is like going to Jiffy Lube to get a cavity filled. Actually worse since those two are completely unrelated, yet religion is a causative factor in relationship issues, and you expect a religious guy to give useful advice based on religion?Emotional issues that you could use real support on should be handled by a professional therapist if anything, not by a Jesus-wheezer of any stripe.

 

A friend of mine is a therapist, and often opines that without religion screwing up people's thinking, he would lose 90% of his business. Not to make light of your situation, but I would tell your pastor to get right with f*** off.

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YoYo,

 

I think it's OK that I respond, because you addressed 'everyone' here.

 

I hope things work out for you and your wife, but if they don't, you will get past it. It may take years, like it did me (and hey, I'm not bitter at all!), but you will survive.

 

I don't know which 'church' you attend, but I wouldn't be suprised if in some way your pastor tells you that to be 'right with God', and 'right with the Church' is the same thing.

 

But enough of my pontificating...

 

I think the best way for you to have everyone here on this site (the regulars, not the trolls) proud of you, would be for you to find the truth in your heart, and in your mind, whatever that may be for you.

What you say to your pastor, no matter how succinct and genius-laden with unrefutable logic it may be, won't make 'us' proud. What you say to yourself, or even if you aren't sure what to say to yourself but admit that to yourself, is what would make 'us' proud.

 

I, for one, just can't be impressed with what you said to your pastor. I can, and am impressed that you seem to have stood up for yourself and asked questions in the middle of what I'm sure is a very bad situation.

 

The DaVinci Code, The Passion...it doesn't matter. That's Hollywood. Why Churches use these things for their own benefit, yet otherwise condemn the same, is beyond me. To say 'hypocrite' seems a bit easy.

 

Also, it seems from your story on this thread, that your pastor, although having an agenda of his/her own I'm sure, isn't a total louse. Concerns that you had about money seem to have been mentioned to your wife. And there is a point: Your testimony...for or against, really doesn't matter right now. What matters is that you get 'right' with God. To me, that means, believe, don't believe,

make up your own mind...that is what is important. NOT what the world or the church thinks of you.

 

YoYo, if you use your faith in God, or lack of same, in some kind of divorce battle with your wife, with your mutual pastor acting as Pope, then it isn't your wife or your pastor that's in the wrong, it's YOU. You seem by your post to be a little smarter than that.

Quit looking for people to take your side. If you are in the right, you don't need that. Everyone, not just on this site, but in all of cyber-space could agree with you, but proud of you? Who cares? Are you proud of yourself?

 

If not, do you want to be? How do you think you can be? What do you have to do next, to show yourself a person, warts and all, but on your own two feet?

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Fuck god, fuck the church, you need to get right with your wife, because she's the only one (besides you) who will get hurt in this situation, and the only one who gives a damn about it. I'm going to put aside what I think of you for a minute or two and treat you like a human being. Do you really think god wants you to sacrifice your marriage for him? That's totally counter to scripture. There's a reason 1 corinthians says this:

I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided.

 

It's your obligation to take care of your wife AND serve the lord. You've completely lost sight of one, and actually hold your wife in contempt for not being a good enough christian. That's your fault, and you need to work it out. From a christian perspective, if you let your marriage end for any reason other than unfaithfulness, you fail at serving god and your piousness and self righteousness is all for naught.

 

Now I'm going to go back to what I really think of you. I'm not proud of you in any way shape or form, because you're destroying your family and livelihood because you think you've got some super special line to god and think that everyone else is wrong. Everyone is wrong, including you. You're no different from them, you believe in crap and it's destroying your life and the lives of those around you.

 

 

 

Thanks everyone for the comments. I wasnt saved in the typical church setting, and I havent grown in knowledge and faith in the typical church setting; The problem has developed around the idea that I have had this experience, untraditionally, brought it into the tradition; yet the tradition assumed that my experience and I would be encompassed around their tradition. The part that has not been applied is that maybe God has something that He wants me to do to affect that tradition, being in a state of untradition salvation.

 

 

LLoyd, I appreciate your concern. I also appreciate your criticism, though abrasive at times, enlightning. I have done all I can do to try to repair the marriage, and I am not the same person that you chatted with over a year ago.

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I have done all I can do to try to repair the marriage,
A "year ago" you made decisions that started the downfall of your marriage.
and I am not the same person that you chatted with over a year ago.
A "year ago" you were looking to the exact same "source" for answers that started the downfall of your marriage as you are today.

 

You're still the same person.

You've just gotten better at denial.

 

She said, "Yeah, he talked to my parents and told them that I was only concerned about money".
So let me see now...

 

A "year ago", you quit a good paying job because you thought that "god was directing you" to do so. In the process of doing this, your wife was forced to go through a drastic decrease in her livelihood because her husband chose theology over her. And now, you and your pastor are turning YOUR fucked up decision around and placing the blame on her for being "concerned about money"? And the sonofabitch told her PARENTS that?!?!

 

Wtf, dude?

 

You need to take a couple steps back and view this whole thing from the outside. YOU fucked up, and your pastor is fucked up!

 

Both of you (you and your pastor) are a couple of cowards that are running away from confronting and addressing the problem head-on by placing the blame for it all on your wife's shoulders.

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Fwee,

 

I guess I missed something that you did not?

 

Fine, but please, don't type 'dude', 'K?

 

I defer to your knowledge, but please don't drag my nic into this!

 

:lmao:

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A "year ago", you quit a good paying job because you thought that "god was directing you" to do so. In the process of doing this, your wife was forced to go through a drastic decrease in her livelihood because her husband chose theology over her. And now, you and your pastor are turning YOUR fucked up decision around and placing the blame on her for being "concerned about money"? And the sonofabitch told her PARENTS that?!?!

Whoa!!! Is THIS what happened??? I totally missed something somewhere then.

 

I change my comments. YoYo is a yoyo. Fuck this shit.

 

Get one thing straight YOYO! Your wife is a real thing. You fucked her over for selfish reasons if this story is accurate. "GOD" is made up. Not real. Get it? Even if "god" is real. Why would it put you here, tell you to make a family and then say "go fuck over that thing I told you to make for my sake...so I'll like you better." It doesn't make sense.

 

If your wife is fucked up somehow then say so and make that your reason for leaving but the "god" angle is just stupid. If you're an ass or a coward and "god" is the excuse then that's stupid too. Anyone that supports this, when they have all the info, is plain wrong too.

 

Putting your "GOD" above anyone or anything is plain WRONG and it is a detriment to society. A quick look at all the societies that do this throughout history will prove my point.

 

mwc

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Whoa!!! Is THIS what happened??? I totally missed something somewhere then.
If that's not exactly what happened, I'm willing to bet my left nut that it's damn close.

 

Back when YoYo started coming here, he was in quite a delirious (religious) state, and he explained how god was working wonders in his life. Well - that was one of the wonders! God had him quit his job.

 

What pisses me off, was seeing how close he was (recently) to realizing how much of a farce the entire religion is, and he's still danglin' from it. :shrug:

 

 

I do have to admit though, he has changed quite a bit within the past year. I just didn't like how he and his pastor are rippin' on his wife for reacting the way she did.

 

I mean, how can you blame her?

 

You can't. :shrug:

 

Not honestly, anyway.

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